Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:No point what forumers think. LTA should have thought of it.
76 could have started from Eunos looped bi-directionally Marine Terrace towards YCK. Fair suggestion. No need for both 134 and 150. But then how would LTA show service improvement in Q1?
The way both 134 and 150 have been introduced is quite ridiculous when 76 could have done the job. But now that both have been introduced, you think LTA is going to revert back?
Moreover, 134 does provide good connection for residents along Sims Estate and Geylang East Central towards Tanjong Katong / Parkway Parade. I have noticed always 10-15 pax are on board and don't alight at Paya Lebar. So there is no way they can go back on 134.
Having 76 and 134 go Marine Terrace is ridiculous waste of resources.
You mean that 76 should be something like a townlink service?
Loop 1: Eunos > Marine Terrace (Loop)
Loop 2: Eunos > Yio Chu Kang Interchange
Waste of time, as pax heading from AMK to Marine Terrace have to go to Eunos first.
Originally posted by lemon1974:why u never talk about the frequency of sv43? 1906/1923/1933?
DD > SD > DD some more.
The headway before a SD is very often longer than the headway before a DD on 43. Almost all the time.
Originally posted by SBS3004X:You mean that 76 should be something like a townlink service?
Loop 1: Eunos > Marine Terrace (Loop)
Loop 2: Eunos > Yio Chu Kang Interchange
Waste of time, as pax heading from AMK to Marine Terrace have to go to Eunos first.
I don't understand what you mean... Who said they have to go to Eunos first?
Originally posted by SBS3004X:DD > SD > DD some more.
The headway before a SD is very often longer than the headway before a DD on 43. Almost all the time.
Yes... this is a problem many people don't understand... not sure if LTA gets it either..
SDs during peak hours take longer than DDs... when a SD gets full... every stop its waiting time is more than a DD... because people struggle to get out... and then BC has to ask people to move in... before people can start boarding... often BC will not be able to close door until people squeeze in from the door... then BC closes door and bus leaves... already wasted so much time.
On contrary DD with 80-90 pax can easily facilitate boarding and alighting...
This causes the DDs to catch up with SDs during peak hours.
Observed this often with sv 43 and many other services that have mix of DD and SD and have them alternate.
During off-peak, SDs/DDs would take about the same time as buses are mostly empty so depends more on BC driving skills.
Originally posted by SBS7557R:sv99 still experiences relatively significant bunching even after its route extension to Joo Koon Int, which shows that the conversion of lengthy loop services to bi-directional services doesn't necessarily aid in better regulating frequency levels.
Unavoidable because like any suburban service it suffers from uneven demand patterns and it faces traffic situations in Clementi/Jurong West, compounded by its winding route. But a heck of a lot better now. There is minimal bunching towards Clementi at St 91, because buses are starting from Joo Koon instead of looping back.
Bus Service 258.
31 March 2016 (Thursday)
0655hrs to 0726hrs.
To be honest, I missed the timing that is unique (important) for 258. The workers use this bus service to get to Joo Koon (very) early in the morning. When I took bus 258 from my house to Joo Koon at around 6:15am, the bus was around 70% occupied.
This trip (0655hrs to supposedly 0755hrs) is more for intra-town and feeder, less for connection to the Jurong Industrial bus services at Joo Koon.
There are school students on board the bus - most of them travel from neighbourhood 6 to neighbourhood 8. Most people board at the blk 678D bus stop, followed by the bus stop at Gek Poh Shopping Centre. Most people alight at Boon Lay Int, followed by the bus stop at Pioneer Pri Sch.
Although I did not record the part from Boon Lay to Joo Koon, as I was chased out of the bus, I can tell from my brief look at the opposite side of the road that... I have missed the critical timing; even if I record, it's not going to be a true reflection of the demand by workers to use 258 to get to their workplace.
Nonetheless, I am disappointed with the loading during peak hours, even for buses that arrive Joo Koon from 6am to around 7am, which I was on one of them as I went there to observe the loading in 258.
Seriously, single decker buses are good enough for 258, even during the peak hour periods. At the most, it's just a packed single decker of around eighty to around one hundred people. If the double decker buses look 70% occupied, it's probably because most people are seated, and only a few people are standing; we cannot judge a bus by its looks.
Actually, 258 does not need double decker buses at all.
Originally posted by carbikebus:But isnt 99 get extended not shortened to terminate like 76?
it was extended, but no longer a loop service.. so there should be less bunching like many ppl here say.....
Originally posted by gekpohboy:Bus Service 258.
31 March 2016 (Thursday)
0655hrs to 0726hrs.
- Joo Koon Int: + 0 - 0 (0)
- SAFTI Military Inst: + 0 - 0 (0)
- Bef Kian Teck Rd: + 0 - 0 (0)
- Aft Kian Teck Rd: + 2 - 0 (2)
- Jurong Camp: + 1 - 0 (3)
- Bef Jurong West St 93: + 0 - 0 (3)
- Opp Blk 653B: + 7 - 0 (10)
- Blk 649A: + 4 - 3 (11)
- Opp Jurong West Pr Sch: + 3 - 0 (14)
- Blk 639: + 6 - 2 (18)
- Blk 701: + 0 - 0 (18)
- Blk 844A CP: + 0 - 0 (18) (243W in front)
- Pioneer Sec Sch: + 0 - 7 (11) (243W in front)
- Bet Blk 859/860: + 7 - 12 (6) (due to jam, 243W no longer in front)
- Gek Poh Shop Ctr: + 13 - 0 (19)
- Blk 755: + 1 - 0 (20)
- Blk 678D: + 26 - 2 (44)
- Blk 685B: + 0 - 0 (44)
- Boon Lay Int: + 0 - 44 (0)
To be honest, I missed the timing that is unique (important) for 258. The workers use this bus service to get to Joo Koon (very) early in the morning. When I took bus 258 from my house to Joo Koon at around 6:15am, the bus was around 70% occupied.
This trip (0655hrs to supposedly 0755hrs) is more for intra-town and feeder, less for connection to the Jurong Industrial bus services at Joo Koon.
There are school students on board the bus - most of them travel from neighbourhood 6 to neighbourhood 8. Most people board at the blk 678D bus stop, followed by the bus stop at Gek Poh Shopping Centre. Most people alight at Boon Lay Int, followed by the bus stop at Pioneer Pri Sch.
Although I did not record the part from Boon Lay to Joo Koon, as I was chased out of the bus, I can tell from my brief look at the opposite side of the road that... I have missed the critical timing; even if I record, it's not going to be a true reflection of the demand by workers to use 258 to get to their workplace.
Nonetheless, I am disappointed with the loading during peak hours, even for buses that arrive Joo Koon from 6am to around 7am, which I was on one of them as I went there to observe the loading in 258.
Seriously, single decker buses are good enough for 258, even during the peak hour periods. At the most, it's just a packed single decker of around eighty to around one hundred people. If the double decker buses look 70% occupied, it's probably because most people are seated, and only a few people are standing; we cannot judge a bus by its looks.
Actually, 258 does not need double decker buses at all.
From when did a SD start taking 80-100 pax. The route is flawed in the first place and the assumption that people will take 258 to Pioneer MRT has failed as well.
258 is one more of those redundant services.
In fact Joon Koon bus restructuring plan has been a failure
192 - poor loading between Boon Lay and Joo Koon almost at all times
193 - overly packed because 192 removed from ave 4
256 - everyone knows the fate of this service. empty buses for 90% of time. Even Boon Lay - Pioneer sector <10 pax at most times
258 - major duplication with 243G/W. The route could have been better planned
Originally posted by lemon1974:it was extended, but no longer a loop service.. so there should be less bunching like many ppl here say.....
99 is doing way better than what it used to be before.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:99 is doing way better than what it used to be before.
But bunching and irregular frequency still occur.... so both loop service and bi-directional service will still experience bunching and irregular frequency..
looking at sv70 as an example also...alway saw 4-5 sv70 buses reaching YCK road (near St 64) in the evening....
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:From when did a SD start taking 80-100 pax. The route is flawed in the first place and the assumption that people will take 258 to Pioneer MRT has failed as well.
258 is one more of those redundant services.
In fact Joon Koon bus restructuring plan has been a failure
192 - poor loading between Boon Lay and Joo Koon almost at all times
193 - overly packed because 192 removed from ave 4
256 - everyone knows the fate of this service. empty buses for 90% of time. Even Boon Lay - Pioneer sector <10 pax at most times
258 - major duplication with 243G/W. The route could have been better planned
258 does come in handy when there's no 181 or 243 towards Boon Lay... Especially considering the number of SDs on 181 and 243.
258's loading to Pioneer MRT is improving as well from my observations.
Originally posted by SBS3004X:You mean that 76 should be something like a townlink service?
Loop 1: Eunos > Marine Terrace (Loop)
Loop 2: Eunos > Yio Chu Kang Interchange
Waste of time, as pax heading from AMK to Marine Terrace have to go to Eunos first.
No. What he meant is:
Direction 1: YCK - Marine Terrace - Eunos
Direction 2: Eunos - Marine Terrace - YCK
Originally posted by array88:258 does come in handy when there's no 181 or 243 towards Boon Lay... Especially considering the number of SDs on 181 and 243.
258's loading to Pioneer MRT is improving as well from my observations.
181 has a frequency of 06-08 mins. 243 has a frequency of 03 mins. 181 has 5 DDs, 2 SDs. 243 has majority DD fleet as well. Not sure what you mean!!
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:181 has a frequency of 06-08 mins. 243 has a frequency of 03 mins. 181 has 5 DDs, 2 SDs. 243 has majority DD fleet as well. Not sure what you mean!!
Sometimes, Svc 243 do not come and I will take Svc 258 instead... I think just need to shift the service to the boarding berth next to Svc 243G and more passengers will either take 258 or 243G.
Originally posted by SBS 9256 X:Sometimes, Svc 243 do not come and I will take Svc 258 instead... I think just need to shift the service to the boarding berth next to Svc 243G and more passengers will either take 258 or 243G.
Sure. In that case, lets do all route planning this way.
- have new service duplicate st 42 for 334 from Jurong East so that in case 334 doesn't come there is alternative
- have new service duplicate Chai Chee so that in case 222 doesn't come, have alternate service...
and the list can just go on and on and on...
192 and 258 gets loading from Jurong Camp to Boon Lay/Pioneer during evening peak, otherwise, 192's loading is quite low most of the time for the Boon Lay - Joo Koon sector
My re-routing suggestion for 258:
Joo Koon Int
Upper Jurong Road
Pioneer Road North
Street 63 (Pioneer MRT)
Street 61
Avenue 4 (Turn into St 72 at West Grove Pri)
Follow 242 route until Blk 711, then follow original route back to Joo Koon
Advantages: Give residents at Avenue 4 another bus service, West Grove Pri students an alternative bus service from Pioneer MRT
Disadvantages: The St 81 - Pioneer/Joo Koon direct conmection is removed, while St 81 loading has picked up, I feel that Avenue 4 needs another bus as 193 frequency can be quite erractic at time, also, this give residents a choice between 242 to Boon Lay or 258 to Pioneer
Otherwise, if 258 route remains as it is, I would suggest operating on 3 DD and 4 SD for the time being, while introducing Feeder/Townlink 244 and shortening 256 to Pioneer MRT (see page 3 for 256 6pm loading analysis)
Feeder/Townlink 244:
Boon Lay Int -> Pioneer MRT, following 256's route
Pioneer Road North, turn into Avenue 4 and follow 242 route, at St 71, turn into Ave 4 towards the stadium and follow 256 route back to Boon Lay from Pioneer
Originally posted by lemon1974:it was extended, but no longer a loop service.. so there should be less bunching like many ppl here say.....
Yes i know but i was hoping that 185 and 502 start from Joo Koon instead of svc 99 and 256.
Bus Service 116
31 March 2016 (Thursday)
Trip started at Hougang Central Bus Interchange at 2:12pm.
Most people board the bus at Hougang Central Bus Interchange (17) and at the bus stop opposite Nex shopping centre (Serangoon MRT Station)(15).
Most people alight from the bus at Nex shopping centre (Serangoon MRT Station)(11), and at blk 151 (9) and blk 946A (8).
There are a few bus stops with zero boarding and zero alighting activity, around Yio Chu Kang Road.
Sv 119 Citaro @ 17.15 hours
Punggol Interchange -- 16
Punggol Field -- 09 (-9/2), 05 (-7/3)
Punggol Way -- 08 (0/3)
Sengkang East Road -- 12 (0/4)
Sengkang East Way -- 09 (-8/5), 12 (-2/5), 11 (-5/4), 11 (-3/3)
Rivervale Dr -- 13 (-2/4), 11 (-6/4)
Sengkang East Ave -- 13 (-2/4)
Punggol Road -- 10 (-7/4)
Hougang Ave 10 -- 12 (-1/3)
Hougang Ave 8 -- 10 (-6/4)
Upper Serangoon Road -- 16 (-2/8), 22 (-2/8), 21 (-4/3), 23 (-1/3), 20 (-9/6), 22 (0/2)
Kovan mrt -- 21 (-17/16)
Hougang St 21 -- 24 (-2/5), 10 (-19/5)
Upper Serangoon Road -- 12 (-1/3), 15 (-3/6), 18 (0/3), 22 (0/4), 19 (-8/5), 16 (-6/3)
Hougang Ave 8 -- 15 (-3/2)
Hougang Ave 10 -- 13 (-6/4)
Punggol Road -- 17 (0/4)
Sengkang East Ave -- 18 (-2/3)
Rivervale Dr -- 13 (-9/4), 16 (-1/4), 12 (-9/5)
Sengkang East Way -- 16 (0/4), 16 (-3/3), 15 (-4/3), 14 (-11/10)
Sengkang East Rd -- 12 (-5/3)
Punggol Way -- 8 (-4/0)
Punggol Field -- 7 (-4/3), 6 (-3/2)
Punggol Interchange -- 0 (-6/0)
* Bus in front = 14 mins (SD)
* Next bus = 08 mins (DD)
* Loading is disastrous. Each direction at not one stop bus got more than 25 pax. Average loading on bus is 10-20 pax
* PM loading on all buses in opposite direction had not more than 20-25 pax
* What's happened to 119? Loading wasn't so bad also... Just going on detoriating instead of improving.
SBS3288T 258, boarding time: 3:20pm at BNL, alighting time: 3:34pm at Pioneer MRT
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Sv 119 Citaro @ 17.15 hours
Punggol Interchange -- 16
Punggol Field -- 09 (-9/2), 05 (-7/3)
Punggol Way -- 08 (0/3)
Sengkang East Road -- 12 (0/4)
Sengkang East Way -- 09 (-8/5), 12 (-2/5), 11 (-5/4), 11 (-3/3)
Rivervale Dr -- 13 (-2/4), 11 (-6/4)
Sengkang East Ave -- 13 (-2/4)
Punggol Road -- 10 (-7/4)
Hougang Ave 10 -- 12 (-1/3)
Hougang Ave 8 -- 10 (-6/4)
Upper Serangoon Road -- 16 (-2/8), 22 (-2/8), 21 (-4/3), 23 (-1/3), 20 (-9/6), 22 (0/2)
Kovan mrt -- 21 (-17/16)
Hougang St 21 -- 24 (-2/5), 10 (-19/5)
Upper Serangoon Road -- 12 (-1/3), 15 (-3/6), 18 (0/3), 22 (0/4), 19 (-8/5), 16 (-6/3)
Hougang Ave 8 -- 15 (-3/2)
Hougang Ave 10 -- 13 (-6/4)
Punggol Road -- 17 (0/4)
Sengkang East Ave -- 18 (-2/3)
Rivervale Dr -- 13 (-9/4), 16 (-1/4), 12 (-9/5)
Sengkang East Way -- 16 (0/4), 16 (-3/3), 15 (-4/3), 14 (-11/10)
Sengkang East Rd -- 12 (-5/3)
Punggol Way -- 8 (-4/0)
Punggol Field -- 7 (-4/3), 6 (-3/2)
Punggol Interchange -- 0 (-6/0)
* Bus in front = 14 mins (SD)
* Next bus = 08 mins (DD)
* Loading is disastrous. Each direction at not one stop bus got more than 25 pax. Average loading on bus is 10-20 pax
* PM loading on all buses in opposite direction had not more than 20-25 pax
* What's happened to 119? Loading wasn't so bad also... Just going on detoriating instead of improving.
Hi mr busanalyser, this bus service obviously catchment area is not robust enough. It needs to be extended southwards to balestier, whampoa area and terminate at st Michaels to have a higher passengers load. Currently, its loading is offset by sbs 82 and sbs 136 from the same Punggol interchange. Cheers. Thanks.
St Mikes no space, all parking lot used up
Originally posted by TIB 585L:St Mikes no space, all parking lot used up
Whampoa still got space for 2 new service,The used one usually are split shift buses that park there.
Originally posted by SBS8002T:SBS3288T 258, boarding time: 3:20pm at BNL, alighting time: 3:34pm at Pioneer MRT
Boon Lay Int - 09 (243G DD left interchange 1-2min ago)Blk 669 CP - 09Blk 670A - 09 (243G DD just ahead) - spotted 1 243W SD packed to the doorOpp Blk 755 - 08 (-1)Blk 749 - 12 (+4) (243G DD 1 stop ahead) - spotted opposite 258 DD with about 20 people (upper deck 5 ppl, possibly from those who could not board the 243W SD ahead)Blk 857 - 11 (-1) - SBS8064P 243W at opposite bus stop with about 15 peopleBlk 821 - 10 (-1)Blk 827 - 09 (-1) - SBS3200X 243W at opposite bus stop have less than 10 people on boardBlk 711 - 07 (-3/+1)Blk 638 - 08 (-1/+2)Jurong West Pri - 08 - Opposite 258 have less than 10 people on boardBlk 651A (Pioneer MRT) - 05 (-3, I alighted here)I agree on the suggestion on shifting 258's berth next to 243G, and based on the loading, it is really terrible with maximum 12 people on board (including myself), in addition, two 243W SD can be seen on back to back slots, maybe it is time to do SD to DD upgrades on 243G/W and make it almost full DD (with B10BLEs as the only SD model on 243)
In my opinion, I feel that bus service 258 has a very unique loading pattern. It is only during two periods of the day that it has very high loading and needs double decker buses - trips starting from Boon Lay between 5:30am and 6:30am, and trips starting from Joo Koon between 6pm and 7:30pm. You should record the loading during those periods, to see it for yourself.