Note: This topic does not just discuss the planning of new trunk services or any potential rationalization exercises in the future, but also the overall future of trunk services.
While the opening of the second stage of the Downtown Line today provides greater convenience for residents of the Northwest corridor, as well as students of the many notable schools along the Bukit Timah corridor, it also spells the potential dip in passenger demands of many bus services (notably 67, 170 & 171) that currently duplicate the line.
With even more MRT lines such as the Thomson-East Coast, Cross Island and Jurong Region Lines and extensions of existing MRT lines coming up by 2030 (this is not old news I know), what can/should be expected of the future of trunk services in Singapore? Will we still need trunk buses to get around, or just feed into the MRT like every other person is doing? Will we still need high capacity double-deck or articulated buses which will potentially ferry lesser and lesser passengers such that a single-deck bus is probably sufficient by then. Even if trunk services were to continue, are we still able to carve out bus services that are able to counter the seemingly decreasing loopholes of the MRT system?
Feel free to kick off the discussion. If anyone feels that this thread is redundant or other threads are able to serve the same purpose, I apologize and will not stop the locking of this thread.
Originally posted by SBS7557R:Note: This topic does not just discuss the planning of new trunk services or any potential rationalization exercises in the future, but also the overall future of trunk services.
While the opening of the second stage of the Downtown Line today provides greater convenience for residents of the Northwest corridor, as well as students of the many notable schools along the Bukit Timah corridor, it also spells the potential dip in passenger demands of many bus services (notably 67, 170 & 171) that currently duplicate the line.
With even more MRT lines such as the Thomson-East Coast, Cross Island and Jurong Region Lines and extensions of existing MRT lines coming up by 2030 (this is not old news I know), what can/should be expected of the future of trunk services in Singapore? Will we still need trunk buses to get around, or just feed into the MRT like every other person is doing? Will we still need high capacity double-deck or articulated buses which will potentially ferry lesser and lesser passengers such that a single-deck bus is probably sufficient by then. Even if trunk services were to continue, are we still able to carve out bus services that are able to counter the seemingly decreasing loopholes of the MRT system?
Feel free to kick off the discussion. If anyone feels that this thread is redundant or other threads are able to serve the same purpose, I apologize and will not stop the locking of this thread.
Hi mr SBS7557R, good. Firstly, no more introduction of super long bus routes which will be covered by mrt mainly. Secondly, trunk routes will get shorter and will provide more direct type especially those last mile routes. Cheers. Thanks.
I am surprised nothing happen to 67,66 routes. 67 already duplicate NSL/NEL/DTL/LRT line. 66 duplicate DTL/NEL/DTL4 in the future
Originally posted by TIB 585L:I am surprised nothing happen to 67,66 routes. 67 already duplicate NSL/NEL/DTL/LRT line. 66 duplicate DTL/NEL/DTL4 in the future
I hope 66 and 67 can be preserved for DTL2-DTL3 link, so that not everyone needs to wind around DTL1.
no point remove both 66 and 67 even the DTL fully opened. in case MRT break down still have bus service support. or is there any new number coming soon?
And soon 66 belong to TT it will be interesting to see the service work load. and 67 is belong to smrt and DTL run by sbst humm
Nobody said removal...
Rather, how about current svcs made express?
Originally posted by wsy1234:no point remove both 66 and 67 even the DTL fully opened. in case MRT break down still have bus service support. or is there any new number coming soon?
Hi mr wsy1234, cannot remove 66 and 67. There are still many bus stops not served by MRT. Cheers. Thanks.
DTL, CCL, TSL and other medium capacity will still need buses in parallel.
Some station will also need 'feeders' into them, mostly short trunks.
67 and 66 like long routes leh, any thoughts of shortening or breaking them?
Originally posted by TIB 585L:67 and 66 like long routes leh, any thoughts of shortening or breaking them?
My take:
66 (Jurong East - Little India) indeed has uniqueness even though duplicates DTL. I don't wish to see it being withdrawn or shortened...
66 (Little India - Bedok) is considerably duplicative with a few services and shortening may be necessary, but I think it's better to amend the service and make it more unique instead of simply cutting it off.
67 (Choa Chu Kang - Little India) duplicates DTL a lot but serves as good alternatives for BPLRT between Choa Chu Kang and Bukit Panjang, and already receives good loading. Can consider cutting but this part needs to be preserved.
67 (Little India - Tampines) being shortened is strictly no no.
Originally posted by array88:
My take:66 (Jurong East - Little India) indeed has uniqueness even though duplicates DTL. I don't wish to see it being withdrawn or shortened...
66 (Little India - Bedok) is considerably duplicative with a few services and shortening may be necessary, but I think it's better to amend the service and make it more unique instead of simply cutting it off.
67 (Choa Chu Kang - Little India) duplicates DTL a lot but serves as good alternatives for BPLRT between Choa Chu Kang and Bukit Panjang, and already receives good loading. Can consider cutting but this part needs to be preserved.
67 (Little India - Tampines) being shortened is strictly no no.
I think you have captured it well. My thoughts are 66 should run between Jurong East looping @ Boon Keng Road, while 67 should run from Tampines looping at Middle road.
There should be new short trunk from CCK looping at Beauty World, or merging with 171 to Marina Center, while 171 loops @ Beauty World (one of the two).
You really don't need both 66 and 67 along DTL2 and 65/66 along DTL3.
Revived, considering that this thread discusses possible future service amendments/rationalisation.
With 3 months past DTL2 opening and little movement, chances of further route amendments are low.
Upcoming lines (and stations):
Everyone left out the poor 700/700A...
Originally posted by wsy1234:no point remove both 66 and 67 even the DTL fully opened. in case MRT break down still have bus service support. or is there any new number coming soon?
Free buses are provided when there is MRT breakdown. I don't think that is the right reason.
66 should remain to provide fast connection between Bukit Timah and Serangoon Road. 67 needs to split into two.
Originally posted by SBS2656X:Everyone left out the poor 700/700A...
700 should remain but get extended to CCK via Keat Hong. This is my proposal. Petir road residents near Chestnut/Cashew take 700 to city. It would be back tailing for them to take 190/972.
But 700 loading has dropped from BPJ area even after introduction of 972 (not really DTL2). 700 once extended to Keat Hong will provide direct city connectivity to Keat Hong residents + an alternative to connect to DTL2 as 983 does not cover all of Keat Hong.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:700 should remain but get extended to CCK via Keat Hong. This is my proposal. Petir road residents near Chestnut/Cashew take 700 to city. It would be back tailing for them to take 190/972.
But 700 loading has dropped from BPJ area even after introduction of 972 (not really DTL2). 700 once extended to Keat Hong will provide direct city connectivity to Keat Hong residents + an alternative to connect to DTL2 as 983 does not cover all of Keat Hong.
66 & 67 can start from J East/CCK looping at Lavender St while new service from Bedok/Tampines will loop at Rochor Canal Rd that if LTA approved.171 can start from BPJ loop at Handy Rd back to Penang Rd towards BPJ.New service 861 will cover Yishun to BPJ.700 can start from BPJ looping at Middle Rd via Selegie Rd and Bencoolen St before using Penang Rd back to BPJ.
Originally posted by Sbs6750E:
CCK got space meh?, unless they want built expansion.
CCK will be getting extension in future. Anyway, can make space always. LTA has never shied from introducing services because of space constraint. Look at Punggol and Tampines.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:CCK will be getting extension in future. Anyway, can make space always. LTA has never shied from introducing services because of space constraint. Look at Punggol and Tampines.
If it's a space constraint problem, a possible solution would be to extend some services (excluding southbound services) to Bt Batok. But given CCK's current services, this may end up counterproductive. Extending 700 to Bt Batok is somewhat counterproductive as well.
I feel that in the past, when bus interchanges, terminals and depots are constructed, the authorities either did not set aside spare parking lots to reserve for future use, or did not allocate bus services to bus interchanges, terminals and depots rationally.
As a result, today, most bus interchanges, terminals and depots are operating near maximum capacity.
Now, when we build new bus interchanges, terminals and depots, we should start to have spare capacity to cater for future use.
Apparently, this is what the LTA is doing. The new Joo Koon Bus Interchange and Changi Business Park Bus Terminal seems to have space reserved for future use.
However, it does not seem that the bus services are allocated bus parking lots rationally yet. But I believe it takes time to master the "art" of assigning parking lots to bus services.
In future, there should not be the problem of lack of capacity, thanks to what we are doing today. :)
I am sure the future generation will thank us for anticipating their future by having spare capacity today - although there is room for improvements.
Joo Koon so small in my opinion.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Joo Koon so small in my opinion.
I guess bus services 182 and 182M will be shortened to Tuas when the MRT opens. I guess a new bus service may originate at Tuas and loop at Joo Koon, with a role of helping the MRT if it breaks down.
Meanwhile, 256 is already looping.
Without 182 and 182M, there's only six bus services originating at Joo Koon Bus Interchange. As there is capacity for nine bus service, I assume there is (eventually) space reserved for three future bus services - 33.3% spare capacity.
If 33.3% is the "usual" amount of space reserved for future use, I guess of the twelve parking lots at Changi Business Park Bus Terminal, four parking lots are reserved; would not be used in the near future (ten to fifteen years).
Really sincerely hope that the future Jurong East Bus Interchange and Choa Chu Kang Bus Interchange will have a larger capacity than the current one. Otherwise, I would appreciate it if there can be at least one new bus terminal or interchange in the West region. This is so that the existing bus interchange at Jurong East, Bukit Batok, Boon Lay can have reduced number of bus services and also have around 33.3% spare capacity.
with Jurong Lake District, Jurong Innovation District and other possible Jurong Districts coming up in future, the existing capacity of bus interchanges and terminals in the West may (confirmed) not be enough.
I am sorry for overly emphasising on spare capacity for future use, but for a better tomorrow, I feel that our bus interchanges, terminals and depots today must have spare capacity reserved for tomorrow. Otherwise, we will still experience the problem of space crunch tomorrow.
Of course, you can say there's Jurong Region Line, Cross Island Line and possibly even Holland Line coming up in future. In the past, the idea was that the number of bus services will reduce as North East Line, Circle Line and Downtown Line are up and running. Clearly, that is not the case. As a result, today we experience space crunch. Let us not make the same mistake again. Thank you.
The future trunk is a bridging type of service.Prepare to see more new service cover the deleted sector of current long distance trunks like 14,51 and 61.Most to most the trunk will not exceed 20km per direction.The longest is express type of service with express fare and with lower frequencies.
Originally posted by carbikebus:The future trunk is a bridging type of service.Prepare to see more new service cover the deleted sector of current long distance trunks like 14,51 and 61.Most to most the trunk will not exceed 20km per direction.The longest is express type of service with express fare and with lower frequencies.
Agreed, new trunk routes like 972 and 117/118 is probably the max nowadays.
Despite the big fuss over splitting 76 into 76/134, I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg in LTA's plans to split long bus routes and/or make loop svcs 2-directional.
The splitting of 76 and 189 which didn't even face the worst bunching/congestion problems shows that LTA wants to split/shorten routes for reliability, but is careful to frame them as 'service enhancements' providing new connections.
Longer trunks through the city like 14, 51, 61 are much harder to split or shorten, and could either mean great disruption to more commuters and/or unnecessarily long duplicating sectors thru the city. We could see such routes being touched when Marina South ITH opens, though that may be 2021 or later (when the Thomson Line MRT stn is done).
Similarly, bus svcs duplicating DTL2 may remain for now, or split/shortened/amended with the ends extended to provide new connections (eg 171 from Yishun to CCK/Bt Batok via Keat Hong and/or BB West).