DTL rationalisation speculations
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
forget the idea of bus rationlisation. i hope LTA should instead consider BRT services in singapore. a simple full day bus lanes on key roads, bus give way signal light on key road junctions and also having semi-express service like 190,23 59 700 should made it a better public transport system for singapore.
forget about your BRT, it is far too late to implement anything like that here. how do we integrate the BRT to the rest of the bus network?
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What we need in Singapore is more dedicated bus lanes!!!
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Keep Service 67, 171 and many other SMRT Services serving the DTL Stations as the LTA will not use the DTL Rationalsation as it did on the NEL Rationalsation.
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LTA need to re-plan the whole bus lane system and draw it according to the traffic demand in the area. the best idea also have a lane in expressway for express public bus service.
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So, the LTA must not touch Service 67, 170, 171 and SMRT Bus Services.
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Originally posted by Path Light:
So, the LTA must not touch Service 67, 170, 171 and SMRT Bus Services.
Originally posted by TIB 585L:LOL if they touch there nothing u cn do abt it
Direct quote.
It's entirely possible that routes could be modified, extended or removed. Should there be need, there will be changes.
NEL rationalisation was an acknowledged mistake, an experiment gone too far, so don't need to worry about unwanted large-scale changes this time. CCL didn't have routes duplicating large stretches / multiple stations, with no major amendments other than some fleet cuts (93, 165, 855 etc.).
DTL2 has many services duplicating, with some routes being particularly long, such as 66, 67, 171. Very likely that LTA will make route adjustments, however miniscule that may be. But ultimately still dependent on traffic / demand changes.
Many posts on the first page have already provided some possible route change suggestions and outlooks. Feel free to look through them.
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Seriously,i dont think many bus svc will be shortened though the 1st and 2nd stage is ready..Chopped off many bus svc MRT will suffer overcrowding issues.
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I think they will wait and see before making any changes. Though I feel we do need some route modification like super long routes. No one takes them these days. They need to be split into two (unless they do express sectors).
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No one would take one end to other to be exact unless its an express route.
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171 may get shortened, while others see capacity downgrades. BPJ to Orchard already got 190/700/972.
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Originally posted by iveco:
171 may get shortened, while others see capacity downgrades. BPJ to Orchard already got 190/700/972.
Yet we see SMRT utilizing high capacity buses (bendys/DDs) on 171 now.
If it's just high loading near Mandai area, there's still high chance of shortening. If it is consistently high across the entire route ... then hard to say.
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Everyone talking about reducing duplications with DTL... Why is no one suggesting linking DTL stations to nearby places?
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Originally posted by array88:
Everyone talking about reducing duplications with DTL... Why is no one suggesting linking DTL stations to nearby places?
Indeed. Both reducing duplications and creating new links are bus optimisations, but the former is always easier to identify and discuss.
As DTL2 follows the main roads of Upp Bt Timah Rd / Dunearn Rd / Bt Timah Rd, it has pretty many links to neighbouring towns, with just some needing more reinforcement.
Links that can be improved are:
- Bt Panjang - Mandai / Yishun [171]
- Bt Panjang - Seletar / Springleaf / Upp Thomson / YCK [none, suggested]
- Bt Panjang - BP interior [920, 922, 971E, 972]
- Bt Panjang - CCK Ave 5/6 [983 extended?]
- Bt Panjang - Yew Tee [none, suggested new route / extension]
- Hillview - Hume [173; improvement suggested]
- Hillview - Bt Gombak [176, but with potentially needed links to East / West Ave 5]
- Beauty World - Bt Gombak [985, but with potentially needed links to East / West Ave 5]
- Beauty World - Jurong East [41, 52, 66, but could use faster / express link]
- Beauty World - Clementi [52, 173, 184]
- Sixth Ave - Swiss Embassy [if adequate demand, suggested]
- Sixth Ave - Holland Rd / Village [77, 970]
Among others. I'm not familiar with the complex links near the city area / DTL3 areas, so I can't say for sure. Do add on to the list.A new cross island service across the north (BP - Mandai - Seletar - NE) may be worth some demand in the future. -
Originally posted by AJQZC:
Indeed. Both reducing duplications and creating new links are bus optimisations, but the former is always easier to identify and discuss.
As DTL2 follows the main roads of Upp Bt Timah Rd / Dunearn Rd / Bt Timah Rd, it has pretty many links to neighbouring towns, with just some needing more reinforcement.
Links that can be improved are:
- Bt Panjang - Mandai / Yishun [171]
- Bt Panjang - Seletar / Springleaf / Upp Thomson / YCK [none]
- Bt Panjang - BP interior [920, 922, 971E, 972]
- Bt Panjang - Yew Tee [currently none, suggested]
- Bt Panjang - CCK Ave 5/6 [983 extended?]
- Hillview - Hume [173; improvement suggested]
- Hillview - Bt Gombak [176, but with potentially needed links to East / West Ave 5]
- Beauty World - Bt Gombak [985, but with potentially needed links to East / West Ave 5]
- Beauty World - Jurong East [41, 52, 66, but could use faster / express link]
- Beauty World - Clementi [52, 173, 184]
- Sixth Ave - Swiss Embassy [if adequate demand, suggested]
- Sixth Ave - Holland Rd / Village [77, 970]
Among others. I'm not familiar with the complex links near the city area, so I can't say for sure. Do add on to the list.A new cross island service across the north (BP - Mandai - Seletar - NE) may be worth some demand in the future.
Bpj - Bt Gombak (Bbt Rd), Jw, 180. Botanic Gdns - McPherson, 151, 154. Tan Kah Kee - Orchard, 171?, 174. Tan Kah Kee - Farrar/Queens Way/Bt Merah, 961/C. -
Originally posted by Sbs6750E:
Bpj - Bt Gombak (Bbt Rd), Jw, 180. Botanic Gdns - McPherson, 151, 154. Tan Kah Kee - Orchard, 171?, 174. Tan Kah Kee - Farrar/Queens Way/Bt Merah, 961/C.
BP - Jurong West (178, 187) and BP - BB Rd (160, 187) both have alternative links, though not as direct as 180. 180 could do some fleet increases.
McPherson to Botanic Gardens still has the backup of CCL. Though additional short trips on 151/154 may help (?)
TKK - Orchard will have a convenient MRT connection, but an 171-like link is still useful. Possibility of diverting 700 over in the event that 171 is cut.
TKK - Farrer / Queensway / Bt Merah: There's 186 and 970 as well, just serving different stations on DTL2 (Botanic Gardens & Sixth Ave). But overall the distance is rather considerable, and there's already the EWL - CCL - DTL connection from MRT.
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TKK to Orchard has 174.
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No such rationalisation happens when Downtown Line 2 opens.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
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Alternate suggestion to the above. Stagger stops at Bt Panjang MRT.
SMRT Service 180: Extension to Yew Tee
- Jurong West Ctrl 3
- (current 180 route to CCK Rd)
- CCK Rd
- Upp Bt Timah Rd (non-stop)
- Petir Rd [DT1 Bt Panjang]
- Jelebu Rd (non-stop)
- Bt Panjang Rd
- Woodlands Rd
- KJE
- CCK Dr
- CCK North 6
- CCK Way
- CCK North 7
- CCK Cres (via Blk 682)
- CCK North 7
- CCK Way
- CCK North 6
- CCK Dr
- KJE
- Woodlands Rd
- Upp Bt Timah Rd [DT1 Bt Panjang]
- Petir Rd (non-stop)
- Jelebu Rd
- Bt Panjang Rd (non-stop)
- CCK Rd
- (current 180 route to Boon Lay)
- Jurong West Ctrl 3
Posted this a while ago on Route Suggestions.
On the subject of adding links, I was thinking if this method of staggering bus stops at the Bt Panjang MRT junction would be useful, when DTL2 opens. In essence, buses will make an inward loop at the square junction in the order: Upp Bt Timah Rd (W) --> Petir Rd (S) --> Jelebu Rd (E) --> Bt Panjang Rd (N). Bus stop W is beside the MRT entrance, and bus stop S beside the LRT entrance.
- Northbound 160 towards JB (and extended 180 to Yew Tee) will make a loop around BPJ MRT, serving only bus stops S and N, before heading to Woodlands Rd. Southbound 160 / 180 will also make the loop, but serving only bus stops W and E, before going down to CCK Rd.
- Meanwhile 176 and 975 will be re-routed: outward bound (to Bt Merah / LCK) would start at bus stops S and N, while returning services would serve W and E, skipping the bus stop opposite N. 971E would start at E on outbound, and end at the bus stop opposite E on inbound. The other pair of bus stops outside the old interchange along Jelebu Rd will be abolished.
- 920 and 922 will skip bus stop N, and turn left to serve bus stop W on their terminating journey. 972 will still end at bus stop N.
All other services remain unchanged for now. No changes to 177, as the junction at Upp Bt Timah Rd / Petir Rd cannot allow right turns.
The only issue is traffic crowding, which may be quite significant (even without this staggering bus stop scheme in place).
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As a result, the change to buses stopping at these four stops are as follows (small letter denoting direction of travel):
- (W) (44029) Upp Bt Timah Rd B24 -- + 160(s), 176(ending), 180(s), 920(end), 922(end), 975(ending)
- (S) (44851) Petir Rd B09 -- + 160(n), 176(s), *180(n), 975(w)
- (E) (44631) Jelebu Rd B01 -- + 160(s), 176(end), 180(s), 971E(s), 975(end)
- (N) (44259) Bt Panjang Rd B07 -- + 160(n), 176(s), *180(n), 972(end), 975(w); less 920, 922.
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Any comments? On both the 180 extension, and the staggering bus stop scheme.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
Posted this a while ago on Route Suggestions.
On the subject of adding links, I was thinking if this method of staggering bus stops at the Bt Panjang MRT junction would be useful, when DTL2 opens. In essence, buses will make an inward loop at the square junction in the order: Upp Bt Timah Rd (W) --> Petir Rd (S) --> Jelebu Rd (E) --> Bt Panjang Rd (N). Bus stop W is beside the MRT entrance, and bus stop S beside the LRT entrance.
- Northbound 160 towards JB (and extended 180 to Yew Tee) will make a loop around BPJ MRT, serving only bus stops S and N, before heading to Woodlands Rd. Southbound 160 / 180 will also make the loop, but serving only bus stops W and E, before going down to CCK Rd.
- Meanwhile 176 and 975 will be re-routed: outward bound (to Bt Merah / LCK) would start at bus stops S and N, while returning services would serve W and E, skipping the bus stop opposite N. 971E would start at E on outbound, and end at the bus stop opposite E on inbound. The other pair of bus stops outside the old interchange along Jelebu Rd will be abolished.
- 920 and 922 will skip bus stop N, and turn left to serve bus stop W on their terminating journey. 972 will still end at bus stop N.
All other services remain unchanged for now. No changes to 177, as the junction at Upp Bt Timah Rd / Petir Rd cannot allow right turns.
The only issue is traffic crowding, which may be quite significant (even without this staggering bus stop scheme in place).
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As a result, the change to buses stopping at these four stops are as follows (small letter denoting direction of travel):
- (W) (44029) Upp Bt Timah
Rd B24 -- + 160(s), 176(ending), 180(s), 920(end),
922(end), 975(ending)
- (S) (44851) Petir Rd B09 -- + 160(n), 176(s), *180(n), 975(w)
- (E) (44631) Jelebu
Rd B01 -- + 160(s), 176(end), 180(s), 971E(s),
975(end)
- (N) (44259) Bt Panjang
Rd B07 -- + 160(n), 176(s), *180(n), 972(end),
975(w); less 920, 922.
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Any comments? On both the 180 extension, and the staggering bus stop scheme.
It actually sounds like a really good idea. Of course, there will definitely be some crowding issues and perhaps its implementation wouldn't go as smooth as you planned it to be, but I don't see any problem with it right now. Although, considering I don't know the BPJ area too well, how accessible are the four bus stops from the MRT/LRT stations?
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Service 66 would keep the current route along with Service 67, 170 and 171 as the LTA will not do the DTL2 rationalisation. They are focusing on BSEP
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Yeah and tiny little nipple went to France
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Yeah and tiny little nipple went to France
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Originally posted by MoltenFalcon:
It actually sounds like a really good idea. Of course, there will definitely be some crowding issues and perhaps its implementation wouldn't go as smooth as you planned it to be, but I don't see any problem with it right now. Although, considering I don't know the BPJ area too well, how accessible are the four bus stops from the MRT/LRT stations?
Oops, just realized that it's impractical for 176 to make a U-turn at Upp Bt Timah Rd, so perhaps this one will have to retain its current route. My bad.
The bus stops are actually quite near the MRT/LRT stations, and in hindsight, one problem with such routing is that many of the inner BPJ services (920, 922, 972) start at the bus stop opposite N (44251), so inbound buses can allow a quick transfer if they end at that stop. Unless that is changed, of course.
So it's just about passenger load management, divert some of the inbound BPJ services with heavier loading to the MRT stop W (44029), during morning/evening peak hours, where possible and achieve greatest efficiency.
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most service will stay. i think serv like 65 lose most dd and bcum more sd with few dd only. 66 may reduce few bus and continue to be all sd.
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Originally posted by proudtobeme:
most service will stay. i think serv like 65 lose most dd and bcum more sd with few dd only. 66 may reduce few bus and continue to be all sd.
No. Service 66 needs DDs in Saturdays and Sundays