DTL rationalisation speculations
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Little India to Bukit Panjang by DTL2 is 20 mins only (this is official on MRT time card).
Consider how long it takes for 170 from Little India to Bukit Panjang - 50-60 mins depending on congestion around Newton Circus.
Now it is for you to decide how do the workers travel. Do they take DTL2 or do 170 all the way to Woodlands Checkpoint which is 1.5 hours in bus.
99% would take DTL2 from Little India and transfer to 170/178 at BPJ MRT.
Weekends I don't know because I don't observe. It is purely family time. But weekdays it is around 20 pax during off peak and peak hours.
Why don't you take 170 one of the evenings to try it yourself? also take into consideration if there is 961/67/171/178 in front... and how many minutes before is the earlier 170.
Problem is the duplication with any of the other services if we try to amend or cut 170 in any way.
Cutting 170 to BPJ would result in redundancy due to 160/178. (160 can just make an extra loop around BPJ)
Letting 170 run express between BPJ/Dairy Farm and Stevens would mean duplicating 960.
Withdrawing 170 altogether is probably not going to do well with the public.
It's a dilemma ... then again considering the routes, if we suppose that 171 and 700 would be axed and 67 (probably) split, is it realistic to assume that 170 will take some of the pax along the way?
Also may have to consider the effect of 48 and 66 along the lower stretches.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
You are joking right???
And there is 178/961... together all of them don't even have standees along Upper Bukit Timah until they hit BPJ where the loading comes.
I am not saying there are no takers for these buses along Upper Bukit Timah but when there are 3 services in parallel... the loading is distributed to around 20 pax/bus during peak hours. If a bus is late, loading will be better on the bus that comes first.
For most of my rides on 170/170A or observations while waiting along the route, no I ain't joking.
And I didn't say they have standees, just limited no. of seats available on some occasions.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
The loading you have described till BPJ MRT is one off... I have been in the area off late as I have two projects... and I haven't seen any 170 bus with even standees during peak hours... There are in fact many with less than 20 pax... Hence, the above loading is not a true representative.
Well, an average KUB have about 29/30 seats.
Excluding a few who stands on the bus + yourself, there's hardly any chance where you will board the bus and is able to find a seat or a pair of seat.
Although I admit I rode 170/170A occasionally, I didn't insist it's the exact true representative. Diff. days diff. loadings, so it's kinda reasonable to say that your observations might not be true either, right?
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
Problem is the duplication with any of the other services if we try to amend or cut 170 in any way.
Cutting 170 to BPJ would result in redundancy due to 160/178. (160 can just make an extra loop around BPJ)
Letting 170 run express between BPJ/Dairy Farm and Stevens would mean duplicating 960.
Withdrawing 170 altogether is probably not going to do well with the public.
It's a dilemma ... then again considering the routes, if we suppose that 171 and 700 would be axed and 67 (probably) split, is it realistic to assume that 170 will take some of the pax along the way?
Also may have to consider the effect of 48 and 66 along the lower stretches.
I think its the best to observe 170 in Weekdays and weekends AM/PM peak and off peak. In addition, to make ur observations more credible, u may want to interview the pax or even the BC
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Originally posted by CZT:
I think its the best to observe 170 in Weekdays and weekends AM/PM peak and off peak. In addition, to make ur observations more credible, u may want to interview the pax or even the BC
If you really do that, you will realize 80% of bus services in Singapore are having SD loading or even running empty during off-peak hours. Then some people will say every service should only have SDs during off-peak...
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Originally posted by CZT:
I think its the best to observe 170 in Weekdays and weekends AM/PM peak and off peak. In addition, to make ur observations more credible, u may want to interview the pax or even the BC
Hi mr CZT, I don't think so. What one person observes will be different from another person. Basically it depends on the timing. A bus service does not warrant amending or cutting just based on few observations. Services like 170 are notorious for average to high loading throughout the past years. There are many other bus services with poorer loadings than 170. Cheers. Thanks.
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Withdraw 171, 700, 960
Service 861
- Existing 171 route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang
Service 968
- Existing Service 960 route from Woodlands to Petir Road
- Existing Service 700 route from Petir Road to Dairy Farm Road
(Use 973 right turn to Upper Bukit Timah Road)
- Existing Service 171 route from Upper Bukit Timah Road to Beauty World (Use 173's stop at Beauty World)
- Go up to PIE like 985
- Existing 700's route to SMU
- Turn left like bus 7 to Bugis Junction
- Use 960's route to PIE
- Exit like 985 Jalan Anak Bukit exit
- Return like earlier on -
Lol too lengthy liao.
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Originally posted by hairycrab138:
Withdraw 171, 700, 960
Service 861
- Existing 171 route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang
Service 968
- Existing Service 960 route from Woodlands to Petir Road
- Existing Service 700 route from Petir Road to Dairy Farm Road
(Use 973 right turn to Upper Bukit Timah Road)
- Existing Service 171 route from Upper Bukit Timah Road to Beauty World (Use 173's stop at Beauty World)
- Go up to PIE like 985
- Existing 700's route to SMU
- Turn left like bus 7 to Bugis Junction
- Use 960's route to PIE
- Exit like 985 Jalan Anak Bukit exit
- Return like earlier onHi mr hairycrab138, what is rationale of using number 861? Just use 171 and can still cut short. As for 968, are you really serious? Cheers. Thanks
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Originally posted by hairycrab138:
Withdraw 171, 700, 960
Service 861
- Existing 171 route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang
Service 968
- Existing Service 960 route from Woodlands to Petir Road
- Existing Service 700 route from Petir Road to Dairy Farm Road
(Use 973 right turn to Upper Bukit Timah Road)
- Existing Service 171 route from Upper Bukit Timah Road to Beauty World (Use 173's stop at Beauty World)
- Go up to PIE like 985
- Existing 700's route to SMU
- Turn left like bus 7 to Bugis Junction
- Use 960's route to PIE
- Exit like 985 Jalan Anak Bukit exit
- Return like earlier on968 is not recommended ...
too long, area looping is not for long haul trunks.
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Originally posted by SMB145B:
968 is not recommended ...
too long, area looping is not for long haul trunks.
Don't loop. End at NBR and let 190 go to SWT instead.
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(1) Cut 171. The southern half is entirely duplicating DTL+NSL+CCL, plus the DTL sections are covered by 67/170/961 and the Orchard section by 700/972 from BPJ and 174 after Bt Timah (DTL/NSL is also good enough).
(2) If demand reduction calls for it, make 700 a semi peak-hour or daytime service, can merge with 971E to serve more of interior BPJ.
(3) Split 67 and run both ends with different fleet/frequency, considering the loading difference on both sides. Make the eastern half terminate at Queen St and the western half at Lor 1 Geylang (preferrably no looping for eastern half to prevent bunching problems, as it isn't an express service like 23). Eastern half can be numbered 1 and given to SBST/GA, with majority DDs.
This should be enough to put more pax on existing services 67/170. Other services don't need to be modified at this point.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
(1) Cut 171. The southern half is entirely duplicating DTL+NSL+CCL, plus the DTL sections are covered by 67/170/961 and the Orchard section by 700/972 from BPJ and 174 after Bt Timah (DTL/NSL is also good enough).
(2) If demand reduction calls for it, make 700 a semi peak-hour or daytime service, can merge with 971E to serve more of interior BPJ.
(3) Split 67 and run both ends with different fleet/frequency, considering the loading difference on both sides. Make the eastern half terminate at Queen St and the western half at Lor 1 Geylang (preferrably no looping for eastern half to prevent bunching problems, as it isn't an express service like 23). Eastern half can be numbered 1 and given to SBST/GA, with majority DDs.
This should be enough to put more pax on existing services 67/170. Other services don't need to be modified at this point.
I still think the best proposal regarding 700 is to extend to CCK via Keat Hong, so that residents there get a direct service to Orchard. But seems that it's unlikely under LTA, plus CCK already has no space.
Terminating 67 East at Queen St is probably not a good idea because 1) Queen St may not have sufficient space and too many Malaysian buses there; 2) 67's link to Little India MRT is best to be maintained.
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700 could use the upcoming Lot1 bus interchange.
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Not sure if this would work but here is an idea
171's route to Mandai
Mandai Rd, Woodlands Rd, BPJ Rd
700's route to Newton
Direct route to Mandai Ind Est and connections to Inds along Woodlands/Sungei Kadut from Yishun w/o xfering to 927
Retains the Newton-Stevens link, can potentially replace 700
Might duplicate 960 too much, and missing links to UBT
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
Not sure if this would work but here is an idea
171's route to Mandai
Mandai Rd, Woodlands Rd, BPJ Rd
700's route to Newton
Direct route to Mandai Ind Est and connections to Inds along Woodlands/Sungei Kadut from Yishun w/o xfering to 927
Retains the Newton-Stevens link, can potentially replace 700
Might duplicate 960 too much, and missing links to UBT
171 has quite a number of pax from Petir Rd and Pending LRT to Yishun.
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http://m.todayonline.com/singapore/downtown-line-3-open-oct-21?cid=TODAY
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LTA has announced the opening of DTL3.
I have started a new topic to discuss possible changes to bus routes for DTL3:
http://sgforums.com/forums/1279/topics/494099
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Originally posted by autumncs:
LTA has announced the opening of DTL3.
I have started a new topic to discuss possible changes to bus routes for DTL3:
http://sgforums.com/forums/1279/topics/494099
The new thread is deleted by the moderators... :(
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DTL3 will see minimal rationalsation. Much like DTL2 case. Probably a bus transfer service between Rochor and Sungei Road stations. Tapping out on either Rochor or Jalan Besar stations and in at the other station will not incur extra charges.
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i realize 66 is very parallel to the downtown line. i wonder if it get shortened or not. 67 also the same. Follow DT until Jln Besar then follow EWL at Kallang to Bedok n then meet DT at Tampines South
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dont la. sekali DT/EW breakdown no parallel bus sv how? At least these svcs r ready to cater to those affected ma
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Originally posted by SMB1368T:
dont la. sekali DT/EW breakdown no parallel bus sv how? At least these svcs r ready to cater to those affected ma
Pls la, bus services don't exist to duplicate MRT lines, that would be a waste of resources. During MRT breakdowns (which is NOT a frequent occurence) there will be free shuttle buses.
It's still best to rationalise based on optimized resource distribution.
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Originally posted by SMB145B:
DTL3 will see minimal rationalsation. Much like DTL2 case. Probably a bus transfer service between Rochor and Sungei Road stations. Tapping out on either Rochor or Jalan Besar stations and in at the other station will not incur extra charges.
DTL3 is somewhat a special case due to it having too few interchanges with existing lines, hence effective MRT transfers cannot occur and buses will still be needed. Overall more likely to have route rationalisations on DTL2 than DTL3.
Though it's quite likely that we'll see fleet downgrades on some of the heavily duplicated routes (22, 65, 66).
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66 J East-Queen St?
67 CCK-Queen St?