DTL rationalisation speculations
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To whom it may concern,
I am sorry if the suggestion I made about 178 and 180 did not resonate well with your expectations. As much as we all want to contribute something useful to the forum, not everyone can observe bus routes all the time.
Please understand that every one of us has the right to voice our opinion. There is no right or wrong answer. It would be good if you can be more accommodating to our comments, just as we have been accommodating to yours.
Thank you for taking time to read this message.
Regards,
Gek Poh Boy
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I remember when 170A was introduced (the same day when DTL2 opened), people were saying 170A is SBST's measure to ensure there are enough buses in BPJ area in case DTL2 breaks down.
So, as long as 170 remains as the only SBST service in BPJ, I don't forsee it being shortened unless LTA/SBST don't mind asking SMRT for shuttle buses (which may still be troublesome even with BCM). An alternative solution is to have 170M from Bukit Panjang to Larkin while reducing the frequency of 170 full route, but it will make 170's route way too confusing with 170X, 170M, 170A etc.
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Why not 170 start from Larkin loop at BPJ MRT? Those people in Tekka going to their dorm at mandai, all tank DTL or 960
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Why not 170 start from Larkin loop at BPJ MRT?
Those people in Tekka going to their dorm at mandai, all tank DTL or 960
cannot lah, that one might as well ask jb operators take over. Why let SG buses operate frm malaysia? depot control oso not easy. (Well in fact CW5 is liddat so cant blame much too)
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Trust me in future 170 will be shortened either to Gali Batu Terminal or Bt Panjang.
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Queen Street remain with those cross-border express svc.
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A number of bus routes at Upper Bukit Timah Road come from Woodlands (160, 170, 178, 960, 961). If we split the Woodlands section of those routes and consolidate them into one or two bus routes that loop around DTL Bukit Panjang or Cashew station, I'm pretty sure this would optimise resources. Maybe that's why there are plans to create a new bus terminal at DTL Gali Batu depot, although a better location is somewhere around Cashew station. (In the first place, where's the official information from LTA that say that there will be a new bus terminal at DTL Gali Batu depot? The information on the contractor's letter to residents may not be accurate.)
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Frm the discussions above, i think why not just strip 170 all the way up to start frm kranji? Thats where all the loading come frm. But first we need a proper bus ter there, if not they will mess up the kranji bus stop. In this case, can just retain the red plate route to malaysia, remove 170X and 160 (since no one takes buses to jb sentral, but if u observe otherwise do share it :) )
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Until an investigation is conducted on the bus services' loading in Bukit Timah and Bukit Panjang, and reported in this forum, we can only have coffee shop talk here. (Unfortunately, I have a 40% exam tomorrow, 40% exam on next Monday and a 50% exam on next Thursday) It would be good if some kind soul currently based in Bukit Timah (with two projects) can dedicate around three hours of his time every day for around two weeks to record the loadings of the bus services at that area. 
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Originally posted by gekpohboy:
Until an investigation is conducted on the bus services’ loading in Bukit Timah and Bukit Panjang, and reported in this forum, we can only have coffee shop talk here. (Unfortunately, I have a 40% exam tomorrow, 40% exam on next Monday and a 50% exam on next Thursday) It would be good if some kind soul currently based in Bukit Timah (with two projects) can dedicate around three hours of his time every day for around two weeks to record the loadings of the bus services at that area. 
Gekpohboy dun nid to say these. The guy i believe goes thru bukit timah area like everyday, so he would have seen all
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Originally posted by CZT:
Frm the discussions above, i think why not just strip 170 all the way up to start frm kranji? Thats where all the loading come frm. But first we need a proper bus ter there, if not they will mess up the kranji bus stop. In this case, can just retain the red plate route to malaysia, remove 170X and 160 (since no one takes buses to jb sentral, but if u observe otherwise do share it :) )
That wouldn't be ideal. There are lot of people who take 170 from BPJ, YT and Mandai Estate to JB. The best option is: Bukit Panjang <> Larkin. There are many who take DTL2 and will transfer to 170 at BPJ.
I think it is important to note where the loading comes from while suggesting changes to routes. Unfortunately, most don't take this into consideration.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Why not 170 start from Larkin loop at BPJ MRT?
Those people in Tekka going to their dorm at mandai, all tank DTL or 960
That was my proposal. BPJ <> Larkin. Better to start from BPJ.
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If 170 got shortened to BPJ it might as well be grouped with Woodlands contract. Can share resources with 950 too.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
That was my proposal. BPJ <> Larkin. Better to start from BPJ.
BPJ ITH has no space already, needs to take care of its other services 75, 176, 184, (700), 920, 922, 970, 972, 973, 975 and 979 first. None of these services are fit to be extended away from BPJ (probably except 979 that could be extended to BB). The current bus park may still be useful for some southbound trunks, but the possibility isn't too high.
The other possibility is to let 170 start from BB and travel via 178's route, with 178 shortened to Boon Lay -- BB and a new feeder replacing 178's Woodlands section. With the rest of UBT/BT/Dunearn Rd covered by 67 and DTL2, transfers can be done at BPJ.
Or, why not extend 160 to Larkin and make it loop once around BPJ? Then 170 can be made semi-express (or simply withdrawn, following your idea)
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
BPJ ITH has no space already, needs to take care of its other services 75, 176, 184, (700), 920, 922, 970, 972, 973, 975 and 979 first. None of these services are fit to be extended away from BPJ (probably except 979 that could be extended to BB). The current bus park may still be useful for some southbound trunks, but the possibility isn't too high.
The other possibility is to let 170 start from BB and travel via 178's route, with 178 shortened to Boon Lay -- BB and a new feeder replacing 178's Woodlands section. With the rest of UBT/BT/Dunearn Rd covered by 67 and DTL2, transfers can be done at BPJ.
Or, why not extend 160 to Larkin and make it loop once around BPJ? Then 170 can be made semi-express (or simply withdrawn, following your idea)
New WDL feeder?
WRI is full already.
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Originally posted by CZT:
Frm the discussions above, i think why not just strip 170 all the way up to start frm kranji? Thats where all the loading come frm. But first we need a proper bus ter there, if not they will mess up the kranji bus stop. In this case, can just retain the red plate route to malaysia, remove 170X and 160 (since no one takes buses to jb sentral, but if u observe otherwise do share it :) )
why dun u go observe 170 buses at bus stop opposite Bukit Panjang Mrt during evenng peak.. see how is the loading of 170 buses.. 170 is running at 11-15 mins frequency right now. majority of buses are for 170X..
170 can just remain as it is..
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
why dun u go observe 170 buses at bus stop opposite Bukit Panjang Mrt during evenng peak.. see how is the loading of 170 buses.. 170 is running at 11-15 mins frequency right now. majority of buses are for 170X..
170 can just remain as it is..
170 can stay as it is for the purpose of rail replacement, just like 2 in the east. -
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
why dun u go observe 170 buses at bus stop opposite Bukit Panjang Mrt during evenng peak.. see how is the loading of 170 buses.. 170 is running at 11-15 mins frequency right now. majority of buses are for 170X..
170 can just remain as it is..
Evening peak till night, not just evening peak.
The loading at BPJ MRT are for 178/961 also, mainly foreign workers.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
That was my proposal. BPJ <> Larkin. Better to start from BPJ.
170/170A coming from Bugis, before BPJ, already have quite a no. of passengers. Basically you won't get a seat(or a pair of empty seat) along Hillview stretch onwards.
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Rough idea of 170/170A loading...
Queen St - Opp Shell Kiosk :
Bus can be quite empty, can find a pair of seats before 3pm.
20-30 pax, basically you cant find a seat or a pair of seats from 4pm onwards.Opp Shell Kiosk - BPJ MRT :
Occasionally a few pax before 3pm.
Demand increase as the time increases(4pm..5pm..), depends if it's the bus arrive first before 961/178.BPJ MRT - Kranji Stn :
Most pax. whom boarded halfway, alighted along these sector.
As usual, peak hours crowd going to Msia would come in and pack the bus(170).
Night time - Demand drop a little at Kranji Stn, but evening peak is the highest.Kranji - Wdl Twn Garden :
170A can be quite empty, handful of pax.
170 would be packed/more demands. -
Originally posted by TIB429E:
170/170A coming from Bugis, before BPJ, already have quite a no. of passengers. Basically you won't get a seat(or a pair of empty seat) along Hillview stretch onwards.
You are joking right???
And there is 178/961... together all of them don't even have standees along Upper Bukit Timah until they hit BPJ where the loading comes.
I am not saying there are no takers for these buses along Upper Bukit Timah but when there are 3 services in parallel... the loading is distributed to around 20 pax/bus during peak hours. If a bus is late, loading will be better on the bus that comes first.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Rough idea of 170/170A loading...
Queen St - Opp Shell Kiosk :
Bus can be quite empty, can find a pair of seats before 3pm.
20-30 pax, basically you cant find a seat or a pair of seats from 4pm onwards.Opp Shell Kiosk - BPJ MRT :
Occasionally a few pax before 3pm.
Demand increase as the time increases(4pm..5pm..), depends if it's the bus arrive first before 961/178.BPJ MRT - Kranji Stn :
Most pax. whom boarded halfway, alighted along these sector.
As usual, peak hours crowd going to Msia would come in and pack the bus(170).
Night time - Demand drop a little at Kranji Stn, but evening peak is the highest.Kranji - Wdl Twn Garden :
170A can be quite empty, handful of pax.
170 would be packed/more demands.The loading you have described till BPJ MRT is one off... I have been in the area off late as I have two projects... and I haven't seen any 170 bus with even standees during peak hours... There are in fact many with less than 20 pax... Hence, the above loading is not a true representative.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
You are joking right???
And there is 178/961... together all of them don't even have standees along Upper Bukit Timah until they hit BPJ where the loading comes.
I am not saying there are no takers for these buses along Upper Bukit Timah but when there are 3 services in parallel... the loading is distributed to around 20 pax/bus during peak hours. If a bus is late, loading will be better on the bus that comes first.
Weekend nights.
During pre-DTL2 days, 170 can easily get at least 40-50 foreign workers from Bugis and Little India to their dorms at Woodlands Road, when 960 is so packed that they cannot board. Not sure about the situation after DTL2.
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Originally posted by array88:
Weekend nights.
During pre-DTL2 days, 170 can easily get at least 40-50 foreign workers from Bugis and Little India to their dorms at Woodlands Road, when 960 is so packed that they cannot board. Not sure about the situation after DTL2.
Confirm kena packed after Kranji MRT like Airport situation.
170 will be diverted to serve Bt Panjang Rd, BKE, PIE, Stevens Road, skip Newton Circus, and follow CW service.
170A will be renumbered to 270, and extend to Woodlands North when ready.