DTL rationalisation speculations
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Not easy. Both 190 and 972 are running at 03-04 min frequency with high capacity buses and high loading. Making changes to these services could inconvenience lot of people.
Moreover, 972 needs to stop at Bukit Panjang road stop before BKE. At least 15-20 pax from Ring road transfer here for other services. Diverting via Pending/Petir will cause them inconvenience.
I didn't say 972 would be diverted via Pending/Petir/Dairy Farm Rds, did I? Anyway, the vehicles currently allocated for 700/700A can be channelled to these 2 routes if 700 is ever withdrawn.
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Originally posted by iveco:
I didn't say 972 would be diverted via Pending/Petir/Dairy Farm Rds, did I? Anyway, the vehicles currently allocated for 700/700A can be channelled to these 2 routes if 700 is ever withdrawn.
Then how will it cover 700?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Then how will it cover 700?
190.
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Originally posted by iveco:
190.
You wouldn't want to make any change to 190 which is undoubtedly the highest loading long trunk service with 02-04 mins frequency :)
I think 960 could be a better candidate to cover 700 at Petir road. The only stop that will be missed out is "Pending LRT".
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190 already at its maximum capacity..972 provide some relief..
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Your suggestions are extremely disruptive to existing commuters.
171 issue can be resolved just by itself by terminating it at BPJ Interchange, max make it loop at Jalan Anak Bukit
178 issue can also be resolved by just making it a BBT -> WDL service. BBT->JE is served by svc 66, JE -> Taman Jurong served by 49 and need some tweaking around Taman Jurong to cover for Corporation Road -> Boon Lay.
It won't be wise to shift all the load to 49 though and it would be very inconvinient for people living in that stretch of road in Taman Jurong in terms of accessibility (to them 178 is the fastest way to go JE) and 49 and 98 takes a big round before going to JE and altering the route will only result in complains no compliments.
I don't think people who are sane enough will want to take 49 where they can have 178 though to go JTH and opens plenty of doors in the NS area with little transfer though from taman Jurong though.
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Originally posted by SMB31X:
It won't be wise to shift all the load to 49 though and it would be very inconvinient for people living in that stretch of road in Taman Jurong in terms of accessibility (to them 178 is the fastest way to go JE) and 49 and 98 takes a big round before going to JE and altering the route will only result in complains no compliments.
I don't think people who are sane enough will want to take 49 where they can have 178 though to go JTH and opens plenty of doors in the NS area with little transfer though from taman Jurong though.
Theoretically yes. Practically 178 has mostly less than 20 pax between Taman Jurong and JE. And almost all through its route except between BBT and Woodlands. Hence, the suggestion.
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Given that it may actually turn true that LTA may do DTL2 rationalization, here is my plan:
67: Tampines Interchange <> Cavenagh Road (loop)
via Little India >> Kampong Java Road >> Cavenagh Road (express) >> Bukit Timah Road
purposely avoided looping at Newton Circus due to the heavy traffic clog at Newton Circus.
Alternatives: 66 (Serangoon Rd - Jalan Anak Bukit) and 987 (new)
Fleet: Full DD fleet as covers bi-directional high loading for 67.
170: Bukit Panjang Interchange <> Larkin Terminal
Alternatives: 959 (new), 960 (Rochor - Stevens - Woodlands Road), 961 (Farrer Road junction - Kranji), 987 (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet with enhanced frequency @ 10min/bus + higher reliability
171: Yishun Interchange <> Bukit Panjang MRT (loop) stop at Upper Bukit Timah road
People from Yishun would need to transfer to another service at BPJ MRT, but the # people are limited. Other alternatives offered from Petir/Pending are 75, 184, 960, 963 to connect to other parts of Upper Bukit Timah, Stevens.
Alternatives: 75, 184, 960, 961, 987 (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet
178: Boon Lay Interchange <> Jalan Anak Bukit (loop)
Old Jurong Road >> Upper Bukit Timah Road >> Jalan Anak Bukit. Will cover missing link of svc 852 (rationalised) between Beauty World/Upper Bukit Timah and Bukit Batok.
Route shortened to improve reliability and serve two different loading sections within current 178 route. Replacement offered is 959.
Fleet: Full SD fleet operating at 15-18 min frequency
700: scrapped
Alternatives: 960 (route modification), 973 (Petir - BPJ), 987 (new)
852: scrapped
Alternatives: 74 (King Albert - AMK Ave 3 junction), 157 (Bukit Batok - Macritchie), 851 (Marymount - Yishun), 66/174 (Bukit Batok - Farrer Road junction), 178 (new proposed link b/w Bukit Batok-Jalan Anak Bukit covering 852's route)
959: Woodlands Interchange <> Bukit Batok Interchange
follows 178's current route and terminates at BBT. The high loading sector along Woodlands estate and Mandai Estate can do with DDs, not suitable earlier because of 20-30 pax loading b/w Upper Bukit Timah and Boon Lay.
Provides additional alternative to modified 170 along Woodlands/Upper Bukit Timah road.
Fleet: Majority DD fleet
960: Woodlands Interchange <> Marina Center Terminal
Diverted via Petir Road >> Dairy Farm Road (exp) >> continue current route
Provides for missing link of svc 700 betweeen Newton and Petir. BPJ Road will continue to have high frequency connection to Whitley for transfer w/ 190, 972.
Fleet: No change
961: No change
Fleet: 32 buses (22 SDs, 10 DDs). More DDs added to compensate loss of certain routes.
973: No change (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet
987: CCK Interchange <> Marina Center Terminal
via 67's current route until Newton Circus, following 171's route to terminate at Marina Center Terminal
Provides for missing link of 67 b/w CCK - Newton Circus + 171 from Upper Bukit Timah to Marina Center + 170 from BPJ to Newton Circus + 700 from Stevens to Bras Basah Road. One service makes up for many service connections disrupted.
Fleet: On certain high loading timings, DDs can be deployed, but otherwise would be majority SD fleet.
In summary:
New services: 959, 973, 987
Scrapped (rationalized): 700, 852
Cut short (rationalized): 67, 170, 171, 178
Diverted: 960
Along Bukit Timah Road, there would still continue to be high # services plying in parallel to DTL2 including: 66, 74, 151, 154, 156, 157, 961, 174, 987
Along Upper Bukit Timah: 959 (new), 961, 987 (new). In parts: 173, 176, 178 (modified), 963, 970, 973
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973 got DD training at Hume Ave just now with alot of BC Rego is SMB3599E (KJ 972)
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
973 got DD training at Hume Ave just now with alot of BC
Rego is SMB3599E (KJ 972)
Seems like another case of empty DDs like 46, 83 and 127
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Regarding 178, Brarack Obama suggested something about it previously, but was ignored...
Originally posted by Barack Obama:Recommendation: Re-route 178.
Instead of Boon Lay, start/end at Joo Koon.
1. Skip Boon Lay Way as there’s already 30.
2. Skip AYE and Jurong Town Hall Road as there’s already 49.
3. From Joo Koon, ply Benoi Road and Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim, all the way to Corporation Road.
4. From Corporation Road, ply Boon Lay Way to Jurong Town Hall Road, via Lakeside and Chinese Garden.
5. From Jurong Town Hall Road, ply the original route north wards.
People at Bukit Batok West Avenue 3 can take the re-routed 178 to Boon Lay Way, Corporation Road and Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim, and vice-versa.
The re-routed 178 could replace route 256.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
973 got DD training at Hume Ave just now with alot of BC
Rego is SMB3599E (KJ 972)
Probably one-off, for this route familiar-isation session.
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I prefer 178:Woodlands Int-Jurong East Int..A new Jurong west package svc cover from Boon Lay to Jurong gateway Rd
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I like Mr BA proposed 170 BPJ-Larkin
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Given that it may actually turn true that LTA may do DTL2 rationalization, here is my plan:
67: Tampines Interchange <> Cavenagh Road (loop)
via Little India >> Kampong Java Road >> Cavenagh Road (express) >> Bukit Timah Road
purposely avoided looping at Newton Circus due to the heavy traffic clog at Newton Circus.
Alternatives: 66 (Serangoon Rd - Jalan Anak Bukit) and 987 (new)
Fleet: Full DD fleet as covers bi-directional high loading for 67.
170: Bukit Panjang Interchange <> Larkin Terminal
Alternatives: 959 (new), 960 (Rochor - Stevens - Woodlands Road), 961 (Farrer Road junction - Kranji), 987 (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet with enhanced frequency @ 10min/bus + higher reliability
171: Yishun Interchange <> Bukit Panjang MRT (loop) stop at Upper Bukit Timah road
People from Yishun would need to transfer to another service at BPJ MRT, but the # people are limited. Other alternatives offered from Petir/Pending are 75, 184, 960, 963 to connect to other parts of Upper Bukit Timah, Stevens.
Alternatives: 75, 184, 960, 961, 987 (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet
178: Boon Lay Interchange <> Jalan Anak Bukit (loop)
Old Jurong Road >> Upper Bukit Timah Road >> Jalan Anak Bukit. Will cover missing link of svc 852 (rationalised) between Beauty World/Upper Bukit Timah and Bukit Batok.
Route shortened to improve reliability and serve two different loading sections within current 178 route. Replacement offered is 959.
Fleet: Full SD fleet operating at 15-18 min frequency
700: scrapped
Alternatives: 960 (route modification), 973 (Petir - BPJ), 987 (new)
852: scrapped
Alternatives: 74 (King Albert - AMK Ave 3 junction), 157 (Bukit Batok - Macritchie), 851 (Marymount - Yishun), 66/174 (Bukit Batok - Farrer Road junction), 178 (new proposed link b/w Bukit Batok-Jalan Anak Bukit covering 852's route)
959: Woodlands Interchange <> Bukit Batok Interchange
follows 178's current route and terminates at BBT. The high loading sector along Woodlands estate and Mandai Estate can do with DDs, not suitable earlier because of 20-30 pax loading b/w Upper Bukit Timah and Boon Lay.
Provides additional alternative to modified 170 along Woodlands/Upper Bukit Timah road.
Fleet: Majority DD fleet
960: Woodlands Interchange <> Marina Center Terminal
Diverted via Petir Road >> Dairy Farm Road (exp) >> continue current route
Provides for missing link of svc 700 betweeen Newton and Petir. BPJ Road will continue to have high frequency connection to Whitley for transfer w/ 190, 972.
Fleet: No change
961: No change
Fleet: 32 buses (22 SDs, 10 DDs). More DDs added to compensate loss of certain routes.
973: No change (new)
Fleet: Full SD fleet
987: CCK Interchange <> Marina Center Terminal
via 67's current route until Newton Circus, following 171's route to terminate at Marina Center Terminal
Provides for missing link of 67 b/w CCK - Newton Circus + 171 from Upper Bukit Timah to Marina Center + 170 from BPJ to Newton Circus + 700 from Stevens to Bras Basah Road. One service makes up for many service connections disrupted.
Fleet: On certain high loading timings, DDs can be deployed, but otherwise would be majority SD fleet.
In summary:
New services: 959, 973, 987
Scrapped (rationalized): 700, 852
Cut short (rationalized): 67, 170, 171, 178
Diverted: 960
Along Bukit Timah Road, there would still continue to be high # services plying in parallel to DTL2 including: 66, 74, 151, 154, 156, 157, 961, 174, 987
Along Upper Bukit Timah: 959 (new), 961, 987 (new). In parts: 173, 176, 178 (modified), 963, 970, 973
I beg to differ for some routes:
67: I know its stupid to keep the route, given that it duplicates DTL so much, but it comes in handy when ferrying pax over smaller areas, like the entire stretch frm Bedok MRT to Tamp Int has a very good and high loading during peak and off peak respectively. Im not too sure are there other alternatives but it still serve well.
170: I think this is a very personal opinion that the starting location – queen st ter should not be changed. Instead, I thought of having it to express all the way to bukit panjang area to ferry any foreign workers quickly to their dorms along woodlands road, and then reduces duplication. Idk if this would work well.
700: I think it is likely to be scrapped WITH other bus services modified
852: There are many students who commute between the stretch of well-known sch along bukit timah road to amk and yishun. This being the most direct route, so withdrawing it would have some consequences. The current freq is actually good.
Do correct me if you alr have mentioned in your post. Thanks
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852 good meh the freq. I can wait up to 20 mins during peak hr for the bus
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
852 good meh the freq. I can wait up to 20 mins during peak hr for the bus
idk leh, considering the loading. If come at 10 min per bus later too little ppl.
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852 peak hour 12-15 mins while off peak 15-18 mins..Now with additional fleet add.Serve as a back up so can't come complain much.
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How bout 170E?
Express service during peak hour.700 can scrap already.
972 can divert via Pending Rd, Petir Rd, Dairy Farm Road back to BKE.
Bt Panjang Rd still have 190.
or possible if 171 reroute?
bke, bukit panjang road, pending rd, petir rd, dairy farm road, bke , pie, whitley road, dunearn road back to original route. -
Originally posted by Ajen:
How bout 170E?
Express service during peak hour.Hmm possible, but wont it be duplicative of CW2/SJE? Personally i wont recommend that coz this would mean this express fares is charged and checkpoint transfers will be a prob. Unless its strictly in Singapore. But then how many ppl would even use this?
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170A already like express to me. 40 mins from Queen St to Train Checkpoint
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Originally posted by CZT:
I beg to differ for some routes:
67: I know its stupid to keep the route, given that it duplicates DTL so much, but it comes in handy when ferrying pax over smaller areas, like the entire stretch frm Bedok MRT to Tamp Int has a very good and high loading during peak and off peak respectively. Im not too sure are there other alternatives but it still serve well.
170: I think this is a very personal opinion that the starting location – queen st ter should not be changed. Instead, I thought of having it to express all the way to bukit panjang area to ferry any foreign workers quickly to their dorms along woodlands road, and then reduces duplication. Idk if this would work well.
700: I think it is likely to be scrapped WITH other bus services modified
852: There are many students who commute between the stretch of well-known sch along bukit timah road to amk and yishun. This being the most direct route, so withdrawing it would have some consequences. The current freq is actually good.
Do correct me if you alr have mentioned in your post. Thanks
Agree that 852 is difficult to scrap. Not sure if it could be modified to become semi-express though ... may be possible to cut to YCK.
Amended 171 can loop around BPJ, but any longer and it'll be better to terminate to prevent bunching/schedule problems. Same goes with either half of 67 if it is split.
700 can either be withdrawn, or rerouted to Jurong East/Bt Batok; both towns would benefit from an express link to Stevens and Orchard. There are enough alternatives in its place. 960 can be diverted to Dairy Farm Rd (not 972, as it is needed for transfers at the Blk 270 bus stop).
66 and 170 can stay for the time being (either 65 or 66 may do well with a bit of diversions along DTL3 where needed).
Overall I believe the priority should be as such:
-- (1) Shorten 171
-- (2) Withdraw / divert 700, make 960 cover for it along Dairy Farm Rd. (Also amend 972 to Dunearn Rd and Newton Rd to cover for 171/700, and probably extend to Marina Ctr if not given other route replacement). 971E may be modified to trace 700 for peak hours.
-- (3) Split up 67, probably best with both halves passing through Little India
-- (4) Split up 178 and make relevant changes to 960/961, if any.
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Also consider the buses that would terminate at the upcoming BPJ ITH.
Assume that there is space for 12 services. We have 75, 176, 184, 920, 922, 970, 972, 973, 975, 979 that will almost definitely terminate there. That leaves space for two more services.
If 700 is not amended or withdrawn, it would terminate. If not, it would be a competition between 177, 180, 971E and 983. May also involve services 170, 171, 178, 960, 961 if any of them is somehow amended (unlikely aside from 171), as well as any potential new services (including express) to any central/NE towns.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
Also consider the buses that would terminate at the upcoming BPJ ITH.
Assume that there is space for 12 services. We have 75, 176, 184, 920, 922, 970, 972, 973, 975, 979 that will almost definitely terminate there. That leaves space for two more services.
If 700 is not amended or withdrawn, it would terminate. If not, it would be a competition between 177, 180, 971E and 983. May also involve services 170, 171, 178, 960, 961 if any of them is somehow amended (unlikely aside from 171), as well as any potential new services (including express) to any central/NE towns.
I think 180 will terminate at BPJ ITH since currently it is "homed" to a interchange that is not mainly served by SMRT buses, which beats the norm. I oso feel 177 might make use but not terminate there. 983 is like this BSEP short trunk so dun think will even enter. 971E is like many other SMRT express services that does not have a parent service and hence not likely to make use of the ITH
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Originally posted by CZT:
I think 180 will terminate at BPJ ITH since currently it is "homed" to a interchange that is not mainly served by SMRT buses, which beats the norm. I oso feel 177 might make use but not terminate there. 983 is like this BSEP short trunk so dun think will even enter. 971E is like many other SMRT express services that does not have a parent service and hence not likely to make use of the ITH
180 start from Boon Lay int and SMRT 172,178 & 187 serve there too.