DTL rationalisation speculations
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
how can you merge 66 and 67?? they have different routes from Little India towards Bedok/Tampines? 66 still can be cut because of 65 and 228 but 67 is unique and needs to remain.
As earlier proposed, 67 can be split into two services: Tampines - Middle road, and CCK - Lor 1.
Then again you can continue it a little further and end the eastern half of the service at Marina Centre. Especially if 171 is truncated.
Do agree that 67 between Tampines and Bedok MRT is rather unique, but after which it follows the MRT all the way to Lavender after that, backed up by several other buses.
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I don't think the rationalisation will be as much as before when the NEL or NSL/EWL opened. Rather, LTA will likely monitor the loading for various svcs for at least a few months, before deciding on changes.
190, 700, 960, 971E and 972 are likely to remain with lower frequencies/ less high capacity buses. Each of them serve unique catchment areas then aren't directly served by DTL2 (CCK for 190, Petir Rd for 700, Woodlands/ Woodlands Rd for 960, Fajar/Segar/Senja for 971E/972), and commuters to theses areas would likely prefer taking these direct buses. 700's loading would probably drop the most, but should still remain.
66 and 67 have important links on their other sectors (JE - Beauty World and Bedok - Bedok Res./Eunos for 66, CCK - BPJ/Upp BT Rd, Rochor - Geylang, Bedok - Tampines for 67) which would likely remain. Still, 66 duplicates the future DTL3 between Jln Besar and Bedok Reservoir, and that section may also be affected. They could be split and/or shortened in future.
961 route is very long but most of the other sectors provide important links, e.g. Woodlands - BPJ/UPP BT Rd, Queensway - Bt Merah - Chinatown. Since loading between BPJ and SAV/TKK is likely to drop, could be made semi-express, via BKE/PIE, though depends on loading changes.
170 would still provide an important link to Woodlands Checkpoint/JB, though most of its route duplicates DTL2 from Queen St (Rochor MRT) to BPJ, and loading is likely to drop a lot. Can also be made semi-express, possibly extended from Queen St to Marina South ITH in future.
171's link between Yishun and BPJ would remain, but BPJ - Marina Ctr duplicates DTL2 and NSL, loading likely to drop a lot. May be shortened to BPJ or amended to terminate at CCK or BBT.
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Other routes with short duplicating sectors would probably be unaffected, loading may even go up due to connections to DTL2 MRT. More new routes could be introduced connecting to the MRT stns:
Beauty World - Toh Guan/ Jurong East (41)
Bt Panjang - CCK West/ Keat Hong (983, future)
Bt Panjang - Yew Tee, Sungei Kadut (preferably via Woodlands Rd, instead of 983 further extension)
Hillview - Petir Rd/ other private estates, possibly Fajar/Segar/Senja (via Dairy Farm Rd)
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Originally posted by array88:
I would not like to see sv 67 cut short to Bedok... Currently the bus stop at Bedok MRT outside Bedok Mall is always crowded, and all services have a lot of pax boarding here. You can see a lot of people taking sv 28 and 67 towards Bedok North Ave 3 (although I'm not really sure where they're alighting), where you can see bendies on 67 packed to the door and people cannot board. If sv 67 is removed, I don't know how sv 28 alone can handle that... While a lot of other services from Bedok Int also go to Ave 3, I don't know why many people still choose 28 and 67 (maybe for convenience?).Meanwhile, sv 67 is still the most convenient service for a lot of Bedok North residents to go to Geylang, Little India etc. Although DTL may be faster, there will be people who do not want to make so many transfers and walk for a long distance, and as long as DTL3 only calls at Jalan Besar (which is sadly not an interchange), there will be people who don't want to walk from there... And once again, you cannot force everyone to board the tiny 3-car trains on DTL.
(Correct me if I'm wrong)
67 passenger might be dropping some where near the bedok reservoir road where is new the condo and hdb flats is or futher near the tampines safara. maybe not merging together as both different bus company but 66 and 65 might get cut as it belong to sbst. so left 67 remain as it is. but service like 8 65 23 64 66 even 61 might somehow be cut or amended. i think most of the sbst bus service will be amended. again by then if the operator is still sbst. that DTL3 open. DTL2 open i don't think many bus services will get cut or amended as most of them belong to SMRT.
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For me, general loading for long trips on certain services will definitely drop. On the other hand, for certain sectors, loading may increase, not drop. More people will board and alight earlier. Don't foresee big rationalization exercise anymore. May have some minor amendments at most. They should have realized from the backlash expected from NEL that time. Cheers.
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I suddenly had this crazy idea.... to make 66 and 67 semi-express services.
66:
(Follow original route from Jurong East Temp Int until Jln Jurong Kechil)
Jln Jurong Kechil
PIE
CTE
Bt Timah Rd
Serangoon Rd (Bendemeer Rd, Jln Besar and Rochor Canal Rd in opposite direction)
PIE
Bedok North Ave 3
(Follow original route to Bedok Int)
67:
(Follow original route from Choa Chu Kang Int until Jln Anak Bukit)
Jln Jurong Kechil
PIE
CTE
Bt Timah Rd
Serangoon Rd (Jln Besar and Rochor Canal Rd in opposite direction)
(Follow original route to Tampines Int)
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On the other hand, as sv 66 is surprisingly in Bulim package which results in serious dead mileage, is this because LTA already has some plans to amend or shorten sv 66, therefore it is in Bulim package unlike other long-haul services?
(Perhaps this also proves that it will not be withdrawn)
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My guess
171 continues it normal route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang Road and then merges with 180..
171 + 180 = 180 - Boon Lay To Yishun
852 withdrawn - since theres 851 from Yishun to Marymount Road. 74 from Ang Mo Kio To Upper Bukit Timah Road and 61 from Upper Bukit Timah To Bukit Batok.
67 - Tampines To Little India (Loop)
Little India to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector deleted (Served by 960 (faster alternative) from Little India to Junction 10 sector.
184 - Extended to Choa Chu Kang to serve Choa Chu Kang to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector. -
Originally posted by hairycrab138:
My guess
171 continues it normal route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang Road and then merges with 180..
171 + 180 = 180 - Boon Lay To Yishun
852 withdrawn - since theres 851 from Yishun to Marymount Road. 74 from Ang Mo Kio To Upper Bukit Timah Road and 61 from Upper Bukit Timah To Bukit Batok.
67 - Tampines To Little India (Loop)
Little India to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector deleted (Served by 960 (faster alternative) from Little India to Junction 10 sector.
184 - Extended to Choa Chu Kang to serve Choa Chu Kang to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector.852 may not go that easily, had in the past been filed for withdrawal but declined ... the main loading is between the schools along Bt Timah Rd and the two termini, especially Bt Batok (even with 66, 157, 174 plying alongside it). There may instead be amendments to the route, such as Sin Ming Rd, Sembawang Rd or BBT East Ave 4 etc. Don't know, will see how it goes.
171 at Mandai serve different passengers than 180, and 180 loading is likely to increase when DTL2 opens, so I don't think it's a good idea to have full fleet bendys running about. Merging with 172 to Boon Lay with some express parts at Old CCK Rd may be useful, but the route would still be 30+ km. Still best to cut it to Bt Panjang, or at most combine with 177 to Bt Batok.
As for 184, the crowd is rather considerable ... have you considered alternatives 75 and 970?
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171 will be the most affected for sure. 66 and 67 could feel the pinch. Other services could see capacity downgrades. The only untouched one will be 170, which could serve as the rail replacement anchor.
After DTL3 opens there could be big changes to 65 and 66. By then the GCM model would be in full swing too.
for now I'd say some Dunearn services will be affected. It's inevitable.
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Since LTA encourage more private tpt users to take public i dont think there is any major amendments despite DTL2..With the increasing population i dont think its wise to cut any routes for now.Dont be suprised there is even more new bus routes
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
852 may not go that easily, had in the past been filed for withdrawal but declined ... the main loading is between the schools along Bt Timah Rd and the two termini, especially Bt Batok (even with 66, 157, 174 plying alongside it). There may instead be amendments to the route, such as Sin Ming Rd, Sembawang Rd or BBT East Ave 4 etc. Don't know, will see how it goes.
171 at Mandai serve different passengers than 180, and 180 loading is likely to increase when DTL2 opens, so I don't think it's a good idea to have full fleet bendys running about. Merging with 172 to Boon Lay with some express parts at Old CCK Rd may be useful, but the route would still be 30+ km. Still best to cut it to Bt Panjang, or at most combine with 177 to Bt Batok.
As for 184, the crowd is rather considerable ... have you considered alternatives 75 and 970?
852 can be cut short after DTL2 opens. Current loading also just about okay. There is 157 in parallel all the way from Macritchie to Bukit Batok. 157 can be diverted via Upper Jurong road. 66, 174 will still cover Jurong Kechill.
852 instead can be diverted via Yishun ring road to loop around Macritchie reservoir. 74 will be parallel from AMK Ave 3 junction all the way to Clementi road junction.
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852 still have their catchment bro,Its an old timer svc which ppl use it as an alternative.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
Sure, go suggest that to LTA.
Then when the public starts to complain about over-crowded roads and buses that can be better utilised rather than follow MRT tracks, I'm sure you'll have your answer as to why, eh?
So yeah, thanks for the comment. It's a pity I can't be hearing any more of your inventive ideas on this thread.
Care to tell me what LTA did when CCL opened?
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Care to tell me what LTA did when CCL opened?
Seriously I cannot understand his post as well...What the hell does withdrawal or shortening of bus services got to do with over-crowded roads? He should have known that in case of MRT breakdown, what are the alternatives if LTA is gonna rationalising the services?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Agreed. But let me correct you on sv 70. The buses got added / upgrades were done due to the NEX / Seletar Hills sector where new HDBs were completed and there was a sudden surge in loading.
Even now, sv 70 gets 80+ pax in AM towards NEX... between NEX and Guillemard road, loading is around 30-50 pax.. not more.. again loading picks up at Guillemard road for Shenton Way / CBD where you again see DDs get full.
So 70 not really mimicks CCL except for the middle part of its route, which is the lowest loading point for the service.
93 did lose its DDs after CCL. Similarly 165 lost its high loading after CCL. Before CCL, 165 was a super high loading service. So services are bound to get affected.
I don't think LTA will directly cut services but some like 171 that do not have huge loading today might get truncated. Also some services might get few downgrades.
sv70 have more than 30-50 pax between NEX and gulliemard road during evening peak.. i cant confirm for am peak though..
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Originally posted by array88:
I suddenly had this crazy idea.... to make 66 and 67 semi-express services.
66:
(Follow original route from Jurong East Temp Int until Jln Jurong Kechil)
Jln Jurong Kechil
PIE
CTE
Bt Timah Rd
Serangoon Rd (Bendemeer Rd, Jln Besar and Rochor Canal Rd in opposite direction)
PIE
Bedok North Ave 3
(Follow original route to Bedok Int)
67:
(Follow original route from Choa Chu Kang Int until Jln Anak Bukit)
Jln Jurong Kechil
PIE
CTE
Bt Timah Rd
Serangoon Rd (Jln Besar and Rochor Canal Rd in opposite direction)
(Follow original route to Tampines Int)
may as well combine with 506 with part of it service the ubi area instead of just kakit bukit area.
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Originally posted by hairycrab138:
My guess
171 continues it normal route from Yishun to Bukit Panjang Road and then merges with 180..
171 + 180 = 180 - Boon Lay To Yishun
852 withdrawn - since theres 851 from Yishun to Marymount Road. 74 from Ang Mo Kio To Upper Bukit Timah Road and 61 from Upper Bukit Timah To Bukit Batok.
67 - Tampines To Little India (Loop)
Little India to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector deleted (Served by 960 (faster alternative) from Little India to Junction 10 sector.
184 - Extended to Choa Chu Kang to serve Choa Chu Kang to Upper Bukit Timah Road sector.combine 67 and 960 will be better
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Seeing as to how
- DTL2 is opening in December 2015, while
- Bt Panjang ITH is opening in 2017,
The situation at Bt Panjang may become quite chaotic in 2016, with a sudden increase in passenger loading / unloading, but no interchange / terminal to ease the load of buses passing by the stops beside Bt Panjang MRT.
Lower sections of DTL2 would most likely see less road traffic, especially when students of the schools along Dunearn Rd / Bt Timah Rd can travel via MRT instead of bus or car.
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No rationalisation will be done on any bus route for DTL... since red dot is not fully rail connected tt seamless travel bet lines are a norm YET and distance bet rail stations are still significant
Hub n spoke, buses along MRT lines bring passengers to the nearest train station.
Buses are to complement rail lines
If as written by many in prev posts of route cutbacks, sv2,147 would already been gone.
Till date, loading is still v healthy for parallel routes
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Just yesterday I was observing at Farrer Park Bus stop where 67 plies towards Tampines, 12M SDs arent able to even allow people to board, door wasnt even fully closed.. furthermore, 3 cars configuration DTL wouldnt be able to clear the load as well, CCL is a good example.. morning overloading, 3 mins freq also cant clear load, especially after iinterchange stns.
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I would think that no buses will be withdrawn this time,At worse they can make 171 start from Marina Centre and terminate at Bukit Panjang or even loop at Jln Anak Bt..Deleted sector will be a new BSEP(86x) from Yishun-Bt Panjang..This is what so called enhancement..66/67 at worse will start from Jurong East/CCK looping at Little India.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
I would think that no buses will be withdrawn this time,At worse they can make 171 start from Marina Centre and terminate at Bukit Panjang or even loop at Jln Anak Bt..Deleted sector will be a new BSEP(86x) from Yishun-Bt Panjang..This is what so called enhancement..66/67 at worse will start from Jurong East/CCK looping at Little India.
Make sense to split 171 because it is a rather long route.
66/67 changes must wait for DTL3. I think 67 & 41 can merge when that leg of DTL is operational. Then 66 become DTL anchor.
170 maybe can convert to limited stop service between city and Beauty World. After that all stops as per normal.
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HWe just talking about rationalization... but trends will change even further
Just like with 972 introduction, 700 load dropped, 190 load still heavy and 972 load increasing month after month.
After DTL2 opens, 920/922 loading will increase... and these services will need high capacity buses... but not sure if SMRT will have enough
Similarly loading will spike between BPJ and CCK towns. 983 will get extended to BPJ and might get majority DD fleet given the loading will be high between Keat Hong and BPJ MRT.
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Do not touch 56, 66, 171 and 972.