[BSEP] Bus interchange expansions for Tampines & Sengkang
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr busanalyser,
For Punggol field, LRT is faster to mrt. Sbs 3 and 83 (even one round from field to mrt) is as fast as sbs 62 (due to its poor frequency because of loop service). Many people rather walk to opposite stop take sbs 3 and sbs 83 to mrt.
Sbs 3 and sbs 83 are the only two services connecting Punggol field and central so mr carbikebus suggestion to make sbs 83 start from sengkang is out. If start from sengkang, sbs 83 may be jammed at Punggol road (before going to Punggol) causing bad frequencies. Furthermore sbs 3 is already subjected to winding roads at pasir ris and highly susceptible to jams at TPE before turning into Punggol. That will be disastrous for Punggol residents if sbs 3 and sbs 83 are being touched currently.
For punggol west, current way is LRT. For Punggol drive to central, walk or do transfer by sbs 50.
For those staying at Punggol central, sbs 3 and sbs 83 are crucial. Sbs 85 helps sometimes only purely due to its poor frequency. Yes a new trunk is needed at this moment.
Most residents are already hoping Punggol gets 2 bus services in Q1 2015. One will be trunk and one will be feeder. Out of 4 new services planned, 1 go to queens town and 1 to CCK and 2 to Punggol. In terms of new HDB flats, this should be fair. It is anybody's guess currently until the new routes are announced: Cheers.
Hi mr. dupdup77,
I feel your reasoning is a little flawed over here on your bolded part. Let me explain my view point.
If sv83 originates from Sengkang, you are saying there will be an issue as bus might get delayed along Punggol road. How does that make a difference? Does it not get even more delayed today? As it originates from Punggol, it will do Punggol road twice, get delayed within Sengkang Interchange near the alighting and boarding bus bays. By the time it reaches Punggol Central, bus will be delayed.
Now compare this to sv 83 originating at Sengkang. Bus will leave on time. AM delay along Punggol road will be less (more delay will be in opposite direction). Buses will come more timely to Punggol Central for ppl to connect to MRT.
From Punggol Interchange, you will have sv 3 and 85 that will leave on time, given that they will originate from there itself.
Hence, I feel for Punggol Central residents it will be beneficial if sv 83 originates from Sengkang instead to have more timely buses to MRT.
Don't you agree with my reasoning?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Hi mr. dupdup77,
I feel your reasoning is a little flawed over here on your bolded part. Let me explain my view point.
If sv83 originates from Sengkang, you are saying there will be an issue as bus might get delayed along Punggol road. How does that make a difference? Does it not get even more delayed today? As it originates from Punggol, it will do Punggol road twice, get delayed within Sengkang Interchange near the alighting and boarding bus bays. By the time it reaches Punggol Central, bus will be delayed.
Now compare this to sv 83 originating at Sengkang. Bus will leave on time. AM delay along Punggol road will be less (more delay will be in opposite direction). Buses will come more timely to Punggol Central for ppl to connect to MRT.
From Punggol Interchange, you will have sv 3 and 85 that will leave on time, given that they will originate from there itself.
Hence, I feel for Punggol Central residents it will be beneficial if sv 83 originates from Sengkang instead to have more timely buses to MRT.
Don't you agree with my reasoning?
Hi mr busanalyser, no.
You cannot leave it to sbs 3 and sbs 85 (with much poorer frequencies) to handle the crowds. You cannot expect sbs 83 to come into Punggol interchange and wait down there along the drive-in until a suitable time then drive to pick-up people. If like this, sbs 83 frequency will become erratic.
This is what is happening in sengkang interchange right now. It is possible in sengkang because the main crowd for sbs 83 is coming from the people inside compass point. Once a critical mass of people starts to assemble, then sbs 83 comes along and picks them up.
Why they do it this way from Punggol int is they need give sbs 83 sufficient load to carry from Punggol to the HDB flats all around. If they reverse it, sbs 83 may be empty from interchange and sbs 3 will be super crowded as most people will flock to sbs 3. Sbs 3 is already crowded giving the fact that it is the only Punggol service that turns one whole loop and stops at TPE stop. So sbs 83 must continue from Punggol int first to be the main service that spreads people from Punggol mrt to Punggol central. Cheers.
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I am getting a bit confused about the convo between the two of you. So far, what I can understand is this.
83 will only leave SK Int after a certain amount of pax is there to board 83. If the same system is applied to Punggol, pax will shift to 3 and 85 instead.
Can the two of you (or one) explain what might be the scenario if:
AM Peak originated from Punggol
AM Peak originated from SK
PM Peak originated from Punggol
PM Peak originated from SK
I think this will help make the issue clearer to understand
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
I am getting a bit confused about the convo between the two of you. So far, what I can understand is this.
83 will only leave SK Int after a certain amount of pax is there to board 83. If the same system is applied to Punggol, pax will shift to 3 and 85 instead.
Can the two of you (or one) explain what might be the scenario if:
AM Peak originated from Punggol
AM Peak originated from SK
PM Peak originated from Punggol
PM Peak originated from SK
I think this will help make the issue clearer to understand
Actually I am very confused with dupdup's reply as well. Hence, I just decided not to reply and end up in an argument.
For me, I don't get his logic. carbikebus proposed that 83 might start from Sengkang Interchange in future and loop around Punggol Interchange (today it is the other way round). To this dupdup said sv 83 starting from Sengkang will greatly inconvenience Punggol Central residents as sv 83 acts like a feeder. To this I replied saying I don't understand how.
My stance is if sv 83 starts from Sengkang, it will be more on-time for Punggol Central residents than if it starts from Punggol as it will do a full loop and come back.For those returning home, they can see the screen and decide which bus out of 3/83/85 to take home and since it is starting point for sv 3/85... it will be on time even if sv 83 gets delayed as it originates from Sengkang (ideally should not get delayed as it is a small route, some feeder routes are longer). So I don't get his logic. Now in his reply he says, from interchange otherwise pax will shift to sv 3 and crowd that service. So I am confused. If you understand better, let me know :)
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
I am getting a bit confused about the convo between the two of you. So far, what I can understand is this.
83 will only leave SK Int after a certain amount of pax is there to board 83. If the same system is applied to Punggol, pax will shift to 3 and 85 instead.
Can the two of you (or one) explain what might be the scenario if:
AM Peak originated from Punggol
AM Peak originated from SK
PM Peak originated from Punggol
PM Peak originated from SK
I think this will help make the issue clearer to understand
Hi mr ButIAmAToilet, to make it simplified, sbs 83 needs start directly from Punggol to sengkang loop. The demand for sbs 83 is high at Punggol side. Cheers.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Actually I am very confused with dupdup's reply as well. Hence, I just decided not to reply and end up in an argument.
For me, I don't get his logic. carbikebus proposed that 83 might start from Sengkang Interchange in future and loop around Punggol Interchange (today it is the other way round). To this dupdup said sv 83 starting from Sengkang will greatly inconvenience Punggol Central residents as sv 83 acts like a feeder. To this I replied saying I don't understand how.
My stance is if sv 83 starts from Sengkang, it will be more on-time for Punggol Central residents than if it starts from Punggol as it will do a full loop and come back.For those returning home, they can see the screen and decide which bus out of 3/83/85 to take home and since it is starting point for sv 3/85... it will be on time even if sv 83 gets delayed as it originates from Sengkang (ideally should not get delayed as it is a small route, some feeder routes are longer). So I don't get his logic. Now in his reply he says, from interchange otherwise pax will shift to sv 3 and crowd that service. So I am confused. If you understand better, let me know :)
Hi mr busanalyser, as of current loading status in Punggol central, it is best to have both sbs 3 and sbs 83 start direct from Punggol int. Demand is getting higher and at present, sbs 3, 83 and 85 (to a much lesser extent due to its poorer frequency) brings people fast to various stops. By reversing sbs 83, demand for Punggol central is going to be worse due to people flocking to sbs 3. Sbs 85 is too infrequent. Furthermore, sbs 3/83/85 are all single decked and this is problematic. If only LTA introduces 1 more service to Punggol central, then it will be okay to reverse sbs 83. But I sincerely doubt so.
If you all notice hard at Punggol interchange, sbs transit always plans for sbs 83 to come first, then sbs 3 a few min later to fetch people. They recognize that sbs 83 functions as a feeder and sbs 3 as a trunk service to pasir ris/tampines. They want an even spread out of people as far as possible to avoid sbs 3 to be overcrowded with people (mostly to pasir ris).
Have sbs 3 come first, then sbs 83 will have lesser crowds. Spend some time at Punggol interchange and you can easily notice sbs 3 and sbs 83 getting regular crowds at most times. It is currently the right time to introduce 1 more service to Punggol central and certainly not reversing sbs 83. Cheers.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr busanalyser, as of current loading status in Punggol central, it is best to have both sbs 3 and sbs 83 start direct from Punggol int. Demand is getting higher and at present, sbs 3, 83 and 85 (to a much lesser extent due to its poorer frequency) brings people fast to various stops. By reversing sbs 83, demand for Punggol central is going to be worse due to people flocking to sbs 3. Sbs 85 is too infrequent. Furthermore, sbs 3/83/85 are all single decked and this is problematic. If only LTA introduces 1 more service to Punggol central, then it will be okay to reverse sbs 83. But I sincerely doubt so. Cheers.
Okay. You mentioned that you expect a feeder and trunk service to be introduced in Punggol in Q1. What is your prediction?
I think feeder is not possible. where in Punggol do you see need of feeder at this moment? The flats at Matilda, Sumang west not ready yet to warrant feeder. The flats at Nibong have LRT.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Okay. You mentioned that you expect a feeder and trunk service to be introduced in Punggol in Q1. What is your prediction?
I think feeder is not possible. where in Punggol do you see need of feeder at this moment? The flats at Matilda, Sumang west not ready yet to warrant feeder. The flats at Nibong have LRT.
Hi mr busanalyser, it is a 50-50 fight between CCK and Punggol. Not sure CCK or Punggol will get the 2nd route.
If it is Punggol, it may be bus int (Punggol place)- Punggol central-edgedale plains (horizon primary school)-edgedale plains end then come out Punggol drive-loop at Punggol east then whole stretch of Punggol central to punggol bus int. What do you think? Cheers.
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Dupdup,There is no significant difference if 83 starts from Sengkang and loops at Punggol Int to ease the overcrowding at Punggol.84 also might be good can passby just outside Punggol Int before heading to its original route.Punggol getting worse now,BCs complain they always late during meal breaks cause finding parking lot during peak hours
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Dupdup,There is no significant difference if 83 starts from Sengkang and loops at Punggol Int to ease the overcrowding at Punggol.84 also might be good can passby just outside Punggol Int before heading to its original route.Punggol getting worse now,BCs complain they always late during meal breaks cause finding parking lot during peak hours
Hi mr carbikebus, there is a significant difference. Sbs 3 and sbs 83 are being controlled currently to fetch residents from Punggol int to central. If sbs 83 is being reversed, the control will not be there. Sbs 3 may end up being overcrowded. Sbs 83 currently picks mass number of people at sengkang int. This causes Sbs 83 to have a lag when coming out of sengkang bus interchange. Since you were from SBST before, you should know that Sbs 83 fetches lots of people at Punggol int before Sbs 3. Sometimes Sbs 3 comes earlier than Sbs 83 and gets the main bulk of people. In most cases, sbs 83 comes earlier and gets the lion share of people at interchange to Punggol central.
By the way, the new sengkang interchange is to provide new services to anchorvale/fernvale and other areas. It is certainly not to do reversal of Sbs 83. Cheers.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr carbikebus, there is a significant difference. Sbs 3 and sbs 83 are being controlled currently to fetch residents from Punggol int to central. If sbs 83 is being reversed, the control will not be there. Sbs 3 may end up being overcrowded. Sbs 83 currently picks mass number of people at sengkang int. This causes Sbs 83 to have a lag when coming out of sengkang bus interchange. Since you were from SBST before, you should know that Sbs 83 fetches lots of people at Punggol int before Sbs 3. Sometimes Sbs 3 comes earlier than Sbs 83 and gets the main bulk of people. In most cases, sbs 83 comes earlier and gets the lion share of people at interchange to Punggol central.
By the way, the new sengkang interchange is to provide new services to anchorvale/fernvale and other areas. It is certainly not to do reversal of Sbs 83. Cheers.
Okay, now I roughly understand what you are saying.
83 purpose is to take in 3's load so 3 can take in pax going towards Pasir Ris. I see the point of doing this during AM peak, but I am not really convinced on PM peak. Since you often pops up whenever Punggol is concern, I am going to assume that you live in that area. Can you tell me if the same issue will happen during PM peak?
Also, if there is a need for on-time services at Punggol Central, downroutes can be performed by maybe 2 buses? Likewise, if 83 somehow starts from Sengkang, there can be a 83A with its own schedule departing Punggol Int every 8-10 mins, scheduled to leave before 3.
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
Okay, now I roughly understand what you are saying.
83 purpose is to take in 3's load so 3 can take in pax going towards Pasir Ris. I see the point of doing this during AM peak, but I am not really convinced on PM peak. Since you often pops up whenever Punggol is concern, I am going to assume that you live in that area. Can you tell me if the same issue will happen during PM peak?
Also, if there is a need for on-time services at Punggol Central, downroutes can be performed by maybe 2 buses? Likewise, if 83 somehow starts from Sengkang, there can be a 83A with its own schedule departing Punggol Int every 8-10 mins, scheduled to leave before 3.
I don't think this argument is valid for AM peak bcoz if you observe all the three services - 3, 83, 85 leave Punggol Interchange empty during AM peak. It picks up pax along the way at Punggol Central, Punggol Field and Punggol Rd (in case of sv 3 and 83). The pax who board these buses are entirely different - one Pasir Ris bound, the other Sengkang bound.
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Jialat..Should have been extension for Punggol then..
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
Okay, now I roughly understand what you are saying.
83 purpose is to take in 3's load so 3 can take in pax going towards Pasir Ris. I see the point of doing this during AM peak, but I am not really convinced on PM peak. Since you often pops up whenever Punggol is concern, I am going to assume that you live in that area. Can you tell me if the same issue will happen during PM peak?
Also, if there is a need for on-time services at Punggol Central, downroutes can be performed by maybe 2 buses? Likewise, if 83 somehow starts from Sengkang, there can be a 83A with its own schedule departing Punggol Int every 8-10 mins, scheduled to leave before 3.
Hi mr ButIAmAToilet, if sbs 83 is currently doing very well in terms of scheduling from Punggol to sengkang loop and back, there is no need to reverse it. It is even strange to even think of reversing Sbs 83 and then introducing sbs 83A. What's the logic in reversing and adding down routes?????
Sbs 3 is already very laggy and when sbs 83 is affected, sbs 3 will get the most hits. Sbs 3 has now been ordered to stop at TPE stop, one additional stop outside Blk 612 at pasir ris drive 1 and soon another new stop at pasir ris at 53 (bus stop is being built now). Do not ever forget sbs 3 is the only service that goes to pasir ris st 71 just after TPE. Just imagine if sbs 3 journey gets longer (due to more people boarding) when sbs 83 is reversed. It will affect a significant number of residents along pasir ris st 71 who depends on sbs 3 daily.
So do not ever think of sbs 83 being reversed as other estates may be dragged into this issue.
In view of the shortage of bus services to Punggol central, I feel LTA may be inclined to introduce 1 more service to this end of punggol central rather then doing this nonsense reversal of sbs 83. Of course, sbs 50 has helped this portion of people a bit. Here, the residents are complaining a need for 1 more service to connect edgedale plains (totally no bus at all) and Punggol central near to Punggol east. However in this forum, guys are thinking to tweak sbs 83. Haha. Real difference between real world and virtual world.
The consensus is this part of Punggol czentral will be further enhanced. It is just a matter of timing. Enhancement is needed. If not, just remain status quo for the time being. This part of residents continue to endure minor inconvenience. Cheers.
For your info only, there are 4 upcoming condos at this end of Punggol. 1 at Punggol drive (ready already), 1 at Punggol central (going to ready quite soon), 2 at Punggol field (in progress). Cheers.
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Dupdup,with better freq i think it will goes well..Punggol now already cramped with lots of bus service,pity the BCs had to waste time finding parking..so by taking a few svc out to Sengkang might relieve them..62 & 84?
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There is need for Punggol interchange extension soon. Either some services have to be moved to Sengkang interchange extension or Punggol needs an extension. Otherwise how is it going to accommodate feeders for Matilda, Northshore and more trunk services. Lets not forget Punggol is going to be the largest residential town in Singapore, even larger than Boon Lay and Woodlands.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
There is need for Punggol interchange extension soon. Either some services have to be moved to Sengkang interchange extension or Punggol needs an extension. Otherwise how is it going to accommodate feeders for Matilda, Northshore and more trunk services. Lets not forget Punggol is going to be the largest residential town in Singapore, even larger than Boon Lay and Woodlands.
OT: I wonder how NEL will cope, along with new residential development at Bidadari.
Commuters living along middle of the line (e.g. Hougang, Potong Pasir, Boon Keng etc.) may find it hard to board during the peak hours.
Hope they can consider having some trains to terminate at Buangkok (northbound) and start from there too for the southbound direction, feasible?
If not having bus services that goes to the city centre etc. -
Originally posted by carbikebus:
Dupdup,with better freq i think it will goes well..Punggol now already cramped with lots of bus service,pity the BCs had to waste time finding parking..so by taking a few svc out to Sengkang might relieve them..62 & 84?
Hi mr carbikebus, I think the proper solution is to build an extension. Improving frequency is just a short term gap solution. With increased frequency comes other problems later on such as half empty buses during certain off peak timings. Then netizens complain again.
You cannot remove sbs 62 from Punggol. Sbs 62 is the only lifeline along Punggol field. Taking it out will be disastrous. Most flock to LRT. On many roads in Punggol, there are only 1 or 2 main bus services. (62 for Punggol field, 3/83/85 for Punggol central, 50 for Punggol drive, 3/50/83/85 for Punggol east--- all numbers are referring to main service for whole stretch) (of course I am not counting 119 for other side of Punggol field, 34/43/84/136/386 for selected stops in Punggol central)
You can change sbs 84 to start from sengkang. But not much of a use as it only has 2 buses. Cheers.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
If you all notice hard at Punggol interchange, sbs transit always plans for sbs 83 to come first, then sbs 3 a few min later to fetch people. They recognize that sbs 83 functions as a feeder and sbs 3 as a trunk service to pasir ris/tampines. They want an even spread out of people as far as possible to avoid sbs 3 to be overcrowded with people (mostly to pasir ris).
Have sbs 3 come first, then sbs 83 will have lesser crowds. Spend some time at Punggol interchange and you can easily notice sbs 3 and sbs 83 getting regular crowds at most times. It is currently the right time to introduce 1 more service to Punggol central and certainly not reversing sbs 83. Cheers.
What if 3 overtakes 83 somewhere in Punggol, before reaching Sengkang?
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Originally posted by SBS3004X:
What if 3 overtakes 83 somewhere in Punggol, before reaching Sengkang?
Hi mr SBS3004X, that will be no issue. When sbs 3 departs Punggol bus int, most of the residents will have taken sbs 83 to Punggol central and east. So sbs 3 picks up some left over people at the interchange. Along Punggol central, some take sbs 83 and if sbs 3 overtakes, some people take sbs 3. This will be only true for those who just want to go to Punggol field. For distance further than that, sbs 3 and sbs 83 take in different groups of people. Sbs 3 takes in those who want go pasir ris. Sbs 83 takes those who go to sengkang. So no clash.
They share a common objective in bringing residents from interchange to Punggol central. It is just like a minor feeder service for Punggol central residents. The current frequency of these 2 bus services is very well maintained when leaving Punggol bus int. By the way, sbs 3 and sbs 83 have the best overall frequency out of all Punggol bus services. Sbs 43 and 34 are fast catching up with all the enhancements being made over the last few years. Sbs 43 and sbs 34 used to be very long at 15 min a bus in the past. Cheers.
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I wonder how Punggol is going to accommodate one more service. I witnessed BC waiting for around 3-4 mins for bus to come out before he could park in bay. Waste of his resting time.
Where is the space to accommodate one more service?
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Problem with Punggol temp Int,its design wasnt meant for more bus parkings..
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Problem with Punggol temp Int,its design wasnt meant for more bus parkings..
And a temp int wasnt designed to last 12 years and counting
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Originally posted by Guides anyone?:
And a temp int wasnt designed to last 12 years and counting
Haha,but i still believe it will get ITH..
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I wonder how Punggol is going to accommodate one more service. I witnessed BC waiting for around 3-4 mins for bus to come out before he could park in bay. Waste of his resting time.
Where is the space to accommodate one more service?
unless they expand the interchange by eating into part of the open field in front to create extra angled parking lots.