SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Hmm still got plenty of time to configure for SMRT specification,The cushion of the seats need more sponge..The bus is definately a pleasure to ride and drive..Ive ask my Kjdep friends who have drove 5888 and most of them prefer the A95 over the Enviros
Yah, and the suspensions are very special compared to A22 & A24. Feels like a bouncier Citaro DD, goes smoothly over humps like a Citaro. When bus comes to a halt, the bus also bounces a bit like a soft ball, unlike A22 & A24. Quite like this feel.
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
Yah, and the suspensions are very special compared to A22 & A24. Feels like a bouncier Citaro DD, goes smoothly over humps like a Citaro. When bus comes to a halt, the bus also bounces a bit like a soft ball, unlike A22 & A24. Quite like this feel.
I find the Citaro's suspension a lot harder than the MANs, some of the Citaros' suspension are beginning to feel like the ones on the Scanias.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I find the Citaro's suspension a lot harder than the MANs, some of the Citaros' suspension are beginning to feel like the ones on the Scanias.
Becos for Citaro, MB designed it for pax to feel lesser vibration from uneven roads because of the European roads & tiles...
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
Becos for Citaro, MB designed it for pax to feel lesser vibration from uneven roads because of the European roads & tiles...
I'm not sure whether you understood my reply, I think it was quite simply and plainly expressed, when I said that the Citaro felt like they had a harder suspension, I meant that I could feel all those bumps more on a Citaro than an MAN.
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If you want the "bump", travel back in time to year 2007. Take SMRT bus 187 towards Boon Lay Temporary Bus Interchange. For the best experience, take a bendy bus. Sit at the very last row. When the bus is at Jurong West Street 64 about to arrive at the bus interchange, there is this hump on the road. When the bus goes over the hump, the entire bus will "bump". You will love it.
If you want the "vibration", take any TIBS-era bus. my personal preference is the Scania L113CRL... the vibration level is to the max mannn....
If you want oven experience, take the oldest SMRT bus... the Nissan Diesel U31RCN... when the bus is moving, the metal can get really hot... oh wait. the bus no more already.
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Actually there still is a bump on the road along Jurong West St 64 at the entrance towards jurong point carpark. You can feel it on Service 172, 180, 187 bendys on the departing direction especially when the driver speeds over it. Beware your head if you sit last row though.
If you want oven of the current buses, can try Scania K230UB Euro V like SBS8902X on 199 or O405G MKI like TIB903C on 180. Sometimes really very hot.
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
Becos for Citaro, MB designed it for pax to feel lesser vibration from uneven roads because of the European roads & tiles...
do you know why the Citaro should deliver less vibration than other buses?
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I'm not sure whether you understood my reply, I think it was quite simply and plainly expressed, when I said that the Citaro felt like they had a harder suspension, I meant that I could feel all those bumps more on a Citaro than an MAN.
seems like the MANs have a softer suspension tuning (do not mistake with suspension type) as compared to the Citaros.
a friend once mentioned that 5888H has a softer suspension than the E500 MMCs, and that actually contributes to a little more roll on 5888H than the E500 MMC. idk if thats good or bad, but if it were me i'll take the E500 MMCs over 5888H (sorry to E500 haters
). I'd rather have a little more feedback than minimal feedback because feedback helps me to understand the road conditions and thereby respond accordingly. -
You got a point if view there brother,But for BCs they would prefer the A95 over E500 anytime..Most probably due to power rating and the driving feeling..No hard feeling ya
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Originally posted by SexyMichael:
seems like the MANs have a softer suspension tuning (do not mistake with suspension type) as compared to the Citaros.
a friend once mentioned that 5888H has a softer suspension than the E500 MMCs, and that actually contributes to a little more roll on 5888H than the E500 MMC. idk if thats good or bad, but if it were me i'll take the E500 MMCs over 5888H (sorry to E500 haters
). I'd rather have a little more feedback than
minimal feedback because feedback helps me to understand the road
conditions and thereby respond accordingly. I took SMB5888H last month (20 March) and it was quite bad... The suspension was cui and was incredibly bouncy when the BC pressed on the acclerator (he was late). As with the MAN A22s (ZF), the bus was jerky when starting off and braking. The good points for the bus, however, had to be the more powerful aircon and sturdier bodywork...
The Enviro is a good bus, though it feels mainly electric (i.e using a lot of eletronics to control the comfort of the bus and so on). Comfortwise, the bus is relatively smooth, though the pickup can be slow (braking is also sometimes jerky). Aircon is not well ventilated throughout the bus due to the awfully small aircon outlets. My only other issue with the Enviro is the creaky bodywork (more plasticky compared to 'adhesives' on the MANs with Gemilang bodywork). The BCs also need to control the bus well, especially due to the slippery brakes which squeak easily.
Overall, you might think the MAN A95 wins because of power and bodywork, but I would frankly choose the Enviro anytime.
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It all links back to SMRT's maintenace
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Originally posted by TIB999B:
It all links back to SMRT's maintenace
SMRT Maintenace ...
really cmi.
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Modern bus all disc brakes,All depend on the BCs.Not many BCs know how to adapt the smooth braking technique though how fast you drive..Reason for A22 jerking while moving off is BC sudden accelerate thus making the bus jerky..Most Employee bus and Workers Transport BCs is highly skill with their bus driving
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
You got a point if view there brother,But for BCs they would prefer the A95 over E500 anytime..Most probably due to power rating and the driving feeling..No hard feeling ya
no hard feelings yea
not too surprising given the A95's performance and familarity over the E500s. same dashboard, same gearbox, more powerful yet same model of engine, similar handling and braking... lol what more can they ask for?
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Originally posted by 23ispolo:
I took SMB5888H last month (20 March) and it was quite bad... The suspension was cui and was incredibly bouncy when the BC pressed on the acclerator (he was late). As with the MAN A22s (ZF), the bus was jerky when starting off and braking. The good points for the bus, however, had to be the more powerful aircon and sturdier bodywork...
The Enviro is a good bus, though it feels mainly electric (i.e using a lot of eletronics to control the comfort of the bus and so on). Comfortwise, the bus is relatively smooth, though the pickup can be slow (braking is also sometimes jerky). Aircon is not well ventilated throughout the bus due to the awfully small aircon outlets. My only other issue with the Enviro is the creaky bodywork (more plasticky compared to 'adhesives' on the MANs with Gemilang bodywork). The BCs also need to control the bus well, especially due to the slippery brakes which squeak easily.
Overall, you might think the MAN A95 wins because of power and bodywork, but I would frankly choose the Enviro anytime.
to clarify my earlier post, I am actually in favour of the E500s over the A95.
while I understand that the E500s have an aluminium body, I am not sure if a steel frame still underlies the aluminium skin of the E500s. based on the assumption the E500s have a steel frame underlying the aluminium body panels, it should be several orders sturdier than the A95's body as the A95's body frame is also made of aluminium.
similarly, both the E500s and A95s use the same, if not very similar Denso AC systems; hence i am surprised that the A95 has a more 'powerful' AC. assuming both buses use the same AC, then its a matter of fan speed which the BCs have control over.
both the E500s and A95 are heavily reliant on electronics in all areas, and control of braking is dependent on the BC's level of skill as well as how the EBS (electronic braking system) is tuned on the vehicles.
i wouldnt want to comment too heavily on the E500's interior as the interior is specified by the operator. as for bodywork quality, SBS7888K's current condition will give you a good gauge of how the A95 will eventually become.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Modern bus all disc brakes,All depend on the BCs.Not many BCs know how to adapt the smooth braking technique though how fast you drive..Reason for A22 jerking while moving off is BC sudden accelerate thus making the bus jerky..Most Employee bus and Workers Transport BCs is highly skill with their bus driving
agree.
for many BCs with little experience, transiting from the O405s to OC/A22 generation of vehicles often comes with a culture shock. acceleration is lost due to multiple gear changes at lower speeds (6 speed vs 4 speed), whilst braking is greatly enhanced thanks to all-wheel disc brakes and EBS in the latest generation of buses.
more training for BCs perhaps?
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If SMB gets more A95s I hope SBS considers getting more KUDs.
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Originally posted by SexyMichael:
agree.
for many BCs with little experience, transiting from the O405s to OC/A22 generation of vehicles often comes with a culture shock. acceleration is lost due to multiple gear changes at lower speeds (6 speed vs 4 speed), whilst braking is greatly enhanced thanks to all-wheel disc brakes and EBS in the latest generation of buses.
more training for BCs perhaps?
Yea bro thats the way..Nowadays BCs brake like their own private car,Worst if LE buses..
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Originally posted by iveco:
If SMB gets more A95s I hope SBS considers getting more KUDs.
K320UD with Gemilang body
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Yea bro thats the way..Nowadays BCs brake like their own private car,Worst if LE buses..
braking electronics definitely make a difference, but if the driver just cannot control then jerk lo heh.
having just changed from a (Nissan) Sunny to a Sylphy (the latest generation), I can feel the pain of not controlling the brakes properly
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As for me no matter what car nor braking system ive got the advantage of experience of e/sudden brake control..Having from Honda Civic ESI to Toyota Vios now to Proton Exora CFE with EBD nothinh really change much except the ABS feeling when u brake.
SMRT should consider MCV or Volgren for their production A95...Those Gemilang really cannot make it long term..Look how squeaky and noisy the K230,OC500LE is..
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lol i was just trying to make a point about transitioning from disc + drum to all-wheel disc brakes. chill, and i knw you have alot of experience braking very hard (hence the "ABS feeling" experience
)but bro, since SMRT maintenance buang, wont an MCV or Volgren body also buang too? shouldnt be saying this but if you see the Volgren O405s and O405Gs ar, not like their condition tip top after so many years ma, right?
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I find the Citaro's suspension a lot harder than the MANs, some of the Citaros' suspension are beginning to feel like the ones on the Scanias.
Because most BCs dont bother to slow down on humps,potholes etc,All just hantam only..
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Originally posted by SexyMichael:
lol i was just trying to make a point about transitioning from disc + drum to all-wheel disc brakes. chill, and i knw you have alot of experience braking very hard (hence the "ABS feeling" experience
)but bro, since SMRT maintenance buang, wont an MCV or Volgren body also buang too? shouldnt be saying this but if you see the Volgren O405s and O405Gs ar, not like their condition tip top after so many years ma, right?
At least the Hispano is very sturdy,Truly European quality despite the bashing..Better than the crappy Gemilang,I understand cost is the factor.