SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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MAN A95 seats are too thin but engine wise is much quiter and smoother than E500 & B9TLs
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
MAN A95 seats are too thin but engine wise is much quiter and smoother than E500 & B9TLs
Give it a few years. If you have rode APM1 (MAN A34) in Hong Kong you will know what I mean.
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MAN engines itself is build for rugged use thus its rough as years goes by..
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spotted this bus twice
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I prefer SMRT buy more A95 with vogelsitze seats and tree guards..No struggle even on full loads..
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So when is the year trial ended?Saw a tri axle chassis at MAN,I maybe wrong or correct but its seem like a bogie chassis..Might be for DD..
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tour bus la i think.
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But chassis is quite low height compared to coach/intercity chassis
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Am i the only one who thinks that MAN A95(production batch if any) should be better with Voith gearbox?Cause ZF acceleration is faster than Voith and if the BCs drive the A95 like any ZF A22s we may soon have A95 involved in accidents(which nobody wants)
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
I prefer SMRT buy more A95 with vogelsitze seats and tree guards..No struggle even on full loads..
Yes I hope they would change to Volgelsitze 750 seats if they bought a production.You see SMRT/Gemilang like to change around with things like from Gorba Eds to Mobitec and HE handgrips to H&S handgrips on MAN A24s.IMO Mobitec Eds seem to work and look better on MAN A24s
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Originally posted by TIB999B:
Am i the only one who thinks that MAN A95(production batch if any) should be better with Voith gearbox?Cause ZF acceleration is faster than Voith and if the BCs drive the A95 like any ZF A22s we may soon have A95 involved in accidents(which nobody wants)
Gearbox shouldn't matter. If a driver is careless, then no matter what bus you give the driver, he will still drive the same way. Similarly, if a driver is careful, there should be no reason why he should get into an accident where the fault lies with him.
More importantly, the bus must be comfortable to drive and have a well designed body that minimises blind spots.
The danger of choosing a bus with slower accleration will be that drivers may not be able to catch up to their schedules as fast as a bus with faster accleration. This adds stress and distraction, and if it happens every trip, fatigue, which are the main factors of why normally careful drivers get into accidents.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
Gearbox shouldn't matter. If a driver is careless, then no matter what bus you give the driver, he will still drive the same way. Similarly, if a driver is careful, there should be no reason why he should get into an accident where the fault lies with him.
More importantly, the bus must be comfortable to drive and have a well designed body that minimises blind spots.
The danger of choosing a bus with slower accleration will be that drivers may not be able to catch up to their schedules as fast as a bus with faster accleration. This adds stress and distraction, and if it happens every trip, fatigue, which are the main factors of why normally careful drivers get into accidents.
agreed!
To add on, I believe that TIB999B raised a salient question on control: whether an A95 with an Ecolife is indeed less controllable than one with a DIWA.
Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: By virtue of transmission design, the ZF Ecolife transmission can allow for quicker acceleration than a Voith DIWA. Without going into the specifics, ride experience generally suggests that quicker acceleration is often associated with reduced control (for the majority of drivers), and that changing to a Voith can and will reduce the initial acceleration, thereby affording some increased degree of control.Remarks: To change transmissions for 'more control' is imo justifiable, although banal and reeks of silliness. Many issues surrounding the ZF A22s can be mitigated with better driver training and mentoring (with suitable technology and personnel of course), although that might be lacking somehow. I feel that the ZF A22s are actually ideally configured, although alot of driver training and driver discipline is needed to reap the benefits the driveline affords.
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Originally posted by TIB999B:
Yes I hope they would change to Volgelsitze 750 seats if they buy anymore.You see SMRT/Gemilang like to change around with things
One must remember that SMB5888H is a demonstrator and by no means a production unit.
While it can be argued that MAN/STK know SMRT's requirements well enough (Denso HVAC, Vogel 750 seats, Masats doors, Alcoa Durabright rims etc...), there is no legal or commercial obligation for them to configure 5888H the same way any production units would be expected to be configured.
On another note though, the Ster seats are lighter than the Vogel 750s often mentioned
Shouldn't their use on a demonstrator (and possibly future production units) be a good thing? -
that is only for if they do get production batch
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I can't agree with anyone who believes that a bus with a Voith gearbox will necessarily be easier to 'control' than one with a ZF gearbox.
It is all down to driving technique and the way that the gearbox is configured (e.g. gearshift profiles). A ZF-EcoLife gearbox has the potential to make a bus extremely slow (in the lowest-performance 'economy' setting) but yet has the potential to make a bus extremely quick (in a 'power' setting). The same applies to a bus fitted with a Voith gearbox.
In fact, each gearbox has the potential to produce rough gear shifting given the right conditions and each has its own unique characteristics and idiosynchrasies. For example, the ZF gearbox has a primary retarder (on the input side of the gearbox) that relies heavily on engine rpm for maximum effectiveness. While this makes for a more gradual and smoother retarder application, the retarder is rather ineffective at lower engine speeds. The Voith gearbox has a secondary retarder (on the output side of the gearbox) that while is effective at all engine speeds, can make for a rather rough actuation with noticeable 'grab', especially when the gearbox has aged.
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Originally posted by SBS9C:
Official spec sheet released by SMRT, though it is not the full one. Something interesting to note is the spec of the Lion's City DD L that is also listed (seems like a 12.8m model). can i buy i want
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I prefer the A95 production batch(if there is) to use back the same seats as 5888H. Reason being that the seats are wider & comfortable. There's 2 additional seats too.
I still support the lower deck layout of the current Wrights(SBS Transit) even though it's said not to be practical(if im not wrong). Not everyone loves the back facing seats..can cause motion sickness..
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Originally posted by Jayden987:
If you got the money and the space to park it I wouldn't say that it isn't possible to buy one. You can even configure how you want the interior to be.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
I prefer the A95 production batch(if there is) to use back the same seats as 5888H. Reason being that the seats are wider & comfortable. There's 2 additional seats too.
I still support the lower deck layout of the current Wrights(SBS Transit) even though it's said not to be practical(if im not wrong). Not everyone loves the back facing seats..can cause motion sickness..
I wouldn't mind back facing seats if it can maximize seating capacity. But I think leg space for the back facing seats for Enviro is kinda limited, on the Citaros and A22s they are okay.
And yes I would prefer the newer buses to have Ster seats instead, even though they are more thinner, they are wider and more ergonomical. The Volgelsitze System 750 design is getting a little outdated already, in the European markets they have already replaced it with the Pino.
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LTA might be interested in A95s after all the E500s is registered..Afterall same standard family as the A22 & A24s
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not sure if it was ever mentioned here before... but, just wanna say... went to ride on a MAN Double Decker for the first time today... on 190, from Clarke Quay to New Bridge Road..
I have one feedback: Should they have production batches of the MAN double decker, please have a staircase that is suitable for Asians to climb on.
wah... you know ah... just now that climb to the upper deck... very tiring leh. the height so large, like those staircase at Malaysia leh...
meanwhile, at the Alexander Enviro 500 buses, the staircase climbing experience was damn comfortable.
can SMRT just standardise the staircase type to the type in the Enviro 500 buses?
I know, that was probably just a prototype.. based on European people... European people bigger size than Asian people... Asian people climb stairs for Eurpoean people very tiring leh... if SMRT decides to procure more MAN double decker buses, I really hope they can have staircase that is designed for Asian people.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
not sure if it was ever mentioned here before... but, just wanna say... went to ride on a MAN Double Decker for the first time today... on 190, from Clarke Quay to New Bridge Road..
I have one feedback: Should they have production batches of the MAN double decker, please have a staircase that is suitable for Asians to climb on.
wah... you know ah... just now that climb to the upper deck... very tiring leh. the height so large, like those staircase at Malaysia leh...
meanwhile, at the Alexander Enviro 500 buses, the staircase climbing experience was damn comfortable.
can SMRT just standardise the staircase type to the type in the Enviro 500 buses?
I know, that was probably just a prototype.. based on European people... European people bigger size than Asian people... Asian people climb stairs for Eurpoean people very tiring leh... if SMRT decides to procure more MAN double decker buses, I really hope they can have staircase that is designed for Asian people.
Thanks.
LOL..it's a trial anyway..
And currently..most ppl seems to stay at the lower deck more often than going up. Just witnessed svc8 loading for the past week..80% will stay at lower deck(even if no seats) rather than going up..
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As usual,Human will never ever satisfied with almost anything...Life has to go..A95 is a straight type staircase right?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
As usual,Human will never ever satisfied with almost anything...Life has to go..A95 is a straight type staircase right?
A95 staircase is the older type, like those on SBST DD buses.
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Hmm still got plenty of time to configure for SMRT specification,The cushion of the seats need more sponge..The bus is definately a pleasure to ride and drive..Ive ask my Kjdep friends who have drove 5888 and most of them prefer the A95 over the Enviros