S179A underops again, 241 getting ghost buses
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Originally posted by negotiable:
i guess tis time round...
let the pic speak 1000 words...
so tell me, is this over-paranoid?
oh and also, i find it wierd tt of all the threads tt a certain some1 called n____n can come in to shoot ppl, this is the least of his options... hmmm...?
Oh really?
Since you have a penchant for revealing names, just do it la.
Since you clearly have little for redeeming to me anyway.
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Originally posted by negotiable:
i guess tis time round...
let the pic speak 1000 words...
so tell me, is this over-paranoid?
oh and also, i find it wierd tt of all the threads tt a certain some1 called n____n can come in to shoot ppl, this is the least of his options... hmmm...?
At least he's spending his precious time to think and provide feedback.
What constructive things have you done in your free time? Revealing people's names?
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Originally posted by azharjj:
i think should have some more routes from somewhere to NTU to ease the crowds at boon lay & pioneer mrt (in other words divert the crowd to other places)
say Choa Chu Kang int <-> NTU ? what do u think?
the route is simple... out of CCK int, turn left to go to KJE, then in expressway to jln bahar exit & turn right to get to the direction of NTU
Have similar thoughts as yours, have feedback to LTA on considering to have that route under the BSEP scheme and also other factors like better to disperse the crowd to other hub points rather than channeling all to the same area (Boon Lay, Pioneer MRT, East-West Line) which also face the crowd from fellow residents and workers working at the Jurong/Tuas Industrial Area.
But LTA replied not feasible as it is not short-haul route and prone to traffic jam (think refering to KJE during peak hours), thought of can ply via Jalan Bahar and Old Choa Chu Kang Rd(recently expanded with more road lanes) if the jam is bad along the KJE.Talking about 179A, feasible for it to stop at Pioneer MRT? May result more students to take and improve the loading.
Perhaps all 179A start at Hall 1 Bus stop(during PM peak) instead of downrouting at the various different bus stops (e.g. Innovation Center Bus Stop), perhaps can give this task to Sv 179 instead? -
Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
A possible soultion would be to switch to use the NTU shuttle buses. If the reason why you take 179/179A is because you feel that the shuttle buses are ineffective, perhaps you should feedback to [email protected] (I found the email at http://www.ntu.edu.sg/has/Transportation/Pages/GettingAroundNTU.aspx)
Personally, I feel that it would be good if more shuttle bus routes similar to the Campus Rider can be created, to ferry students from other MRT stations, such as Joo Koon (EW29), Choa Chu Kang (NS4), Masiling (NS8), Toa Payoh (NS19), etc. , so that the crowd can be diverted to more MRT stations and no MRT station would be overcrowded with students going to NTU.
Perhaps you should suggest to the LTA to create BSEP bus route(s) that goes into NTU, from other areas. For instance, in view of the industrial areas at Wenya and Jalan Bahar coming up, maybe a new BSEP bus can be created to serve these industrial areas and loop at NTU.
Personally, I feel that 179's frequency is very long, such that how soon it arrives at the bus stop determines whether or not I would be late for school. As a resident who relies on 179 to get to Pioneer MRT Station, I wish that there can be a short-trip of 179 that loops at the PIE Nanyang Flyover (or at the roundabout at the junction of Pioneer Road North and Nanyang Crescent), operating during peak periods at least, so that buses can arrive more often and my bus connection to Pioneer MRT Station can be more reliable.
I agree that there may be insufficient number of buses deployed to bus route 179, in particular during peak periods.
However, I cannot say anything about the short-trip 179A because I never ride on 179A before. Maybe other forum users can share their experiences on short-trip 179A, if they have rode on the short-trip before.
Regarding having shuttle service from the major MRT station during AM peak(similar to what some polytechnics have done), have feedback to the transportation division and the SU. They will look into the matter and perhaps study how it works (poly model), primarily due to cost concern.
Adding on, the traffic flow in NTU can be improved.
E.g. Innovation Center bus stop can have a dedicated bus stop bay. Especially during PM peak when many students are going back, the layover of the bus at the bus stop will be long and cause a hindrance of other traffic users (due to one lane) and also have divider in place. Also prone for 179/179A to bunch together at this area and most likely travel in a convoy after that. If there is a dedicated bus stop bay, some of the 179/179A can consider skipping that bus stop (if there are 2-3 buses there and no one alighting) and serve the next bus stop (Hall 4) so on and so forth (more likely to improve the flow and efficiency)? -
Originally posted by SBS9657Y:
Talking about 179A, feasible for it to stop at Pioneer MRT? May result more students to take and improve the loading.
Perhaps all 179A start at Hall 1 Bus stop(during PM peak) instead of downrouting at the various different bus stops (e.g. Innovation Center Bus Stop), perhaps can give this task to Sv 179 instead?You suggest 179A to stop at Pioneer, but sbs275's reason for taking 179A is because its skips Pioneer and the crowd.
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Hello, u don't pay $3-4 per ride for 179A. Pls be understanding and not whine like a crybaby all the time. At the end of the day it's SBST's decision to deploy whereas how many buses they like.
Pls, give them some constructive feedback instead of ranting here. No use putting their name to shame for underoperating ur godly 179A and expect them to do better.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Dear SLBP,
You’ve better come clean with this underops and overops nonsense before LTA opens the Bus OCC and instead of chickenlittle2 saying “SLBP will handle it”, it’ll become “LTA will handle the matter”... and SBST/ SLBP slapped with $100k fine
179A was severely underoperated at about 8 – 10 mins freq.. and worst, BC didn’t allow exit door boarding today…
179 was over-operated…
The best thing of all… pulling 179A buses over to 241…
How come I know… Cos I saw a ghost bus plying 243W’s routing and eventually entering Jurong West St 91 w/ EDS displaying “OFF SERVICE”...
I’ve checked the e-timetable.. the last downroute is at 0803 from Jurong West St 91 [inbound bus stop]... I spotted this ghost bus at 0810+...
LTA has stipulated that SLBP is supposed to dispatch 179A once the queue at BNL Int is long enough because they do not want people to be left behind at each dispatch… But the queue was spotted to have reached Shilin Taiwan snack stall, which meant there’s about nearly 180 pax waiting…
SLBP really disappointing… Semi express service become slow service… Might as well dun operate.. all operate as 179 with 30 buses at 2 mins freq… See if chickenlittle2 or SLBP later face more complains by pax at Pioneer Rd Nth being unable to board the bus at all…
If SLBP people are looking and the took revenge on the previous post of exposing the exam period Sat slot matter, by all means go ahead…
SLBP people totally dunno how to manage 179 at all… Today 179A properly operated, next day no bus… then subsequent days of course more people would queue for 179 and suan 179A since SBST didn’t operate the bus properly…
Then 4th day people queue for 179A again cos tuan by 179’s long queue and long runtime…
What to do… SLBP the best loading expert… playing with commuters…
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Ai yo relax man,cut him some slacks.Everyone got their own opinion
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Aiyo, if you don't like how SBST operate their buses to NTU, why not just make yourself another way to NTU then?
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Cycle.
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AM Peak
179A should use any route so long as don't ply 179 route and jam up jw st 63. sometimes the other boarding activities for industrial estate workers leave only one lane passable.
can use jw st 62/61/ave 4!
PM Peak
then PM peak stop at Pioneer. honestly, PM peak 179A is underutilised. don't care if there's "a lot of ppl" switching to other buses at Boon Lay Int. it will only take 3 mins for most passengers to get off. it's really a pity seeing so many 179A leaving NTU 40% seated.
everyone boards 179 and the residents along pioneer rd nth 1st stop out of NTU can't board to Pioneer MRT. if 179A PM Peak does stop at Pioneer MRT, it'll remove a large number of the NTU population from taking 179 to 179A instead.
AM peak, the NTU population do get off at Boon Lay to board 179A. but lately...... yes I do agree it is not as efficient as during the temporary interchange/newly opened interchange days.
it's just about being flexible and informing the passengers adequately on the various amendments to serve them better.
my 2 cents from my ntu days 2008 - 2012 and NIE now. however, i now drive and for current situation, I seek input from colleagues who take public. -
Originally posted by sinicker:
AM Peak
179A should use any route so long as don't ply 179 route and jam up jw st 63. sometimes the other boarding activities for industrial estate workers leave only one lane passable.
can use jw st 62/61/ave 4!
PM Peak
then PM peak stop at Pioneer. honestly, PM peak 179A is underutilised. don't care if there's "a lot of ppl" switching to other buses at Boon Lay Int. it will only take 3 mins for most passengers to get off. it's really a pity seeing so many 179A leaving NTU 40% seated.
everyone boards 179 and the residents along pioneer rd nth 1st stop out of NTU can't board to Pioneer MRT. if 179A PM Peak does stop at Pioneer MRT, it'll remove a large number of the NTU population from taking 179 to 179A instead.
AM peak, the NTU population do get off at Boon Lay to board 179A. but lately...... yes I do agree it is not as efficient as during the temporary interchange/newly opened interchange days.
it's just about being flexible and informing the passengers adequately on the various amendments to serve them better.
my 2 cents from my ntu days 2008 - 2012 and NIE now. however, i now drive and for current situation, I seek input from colleagues who take public.I still take 179 and 179A daily but for the PM peak, it is still a headache (not saying it is not a headache on other services).
Stopping at Pioneer is generally good at other times but at PM peak, every single full DD takes almost 2 minutes to completely offload. Together with 241, 255, Pioneer shuttle and the factory buses which eats up 1 of the 2 lanes, the entire road is already congested even without 179A stopping there. All thats needed to bring traffic to a standstill is a impatient driver who lets pax off while having the tail of the bus blocking the other lane.
From a operator standpoint, it is not easy to balance the pax between 179 and 179A, because if more 179 are operated, the pioneer stretch gets congested which will eventually affect the runtime of many buses. More 179A are operated, then the alighting bay at BNL itself gets congested.
Perhaps an alternative option would be to have a SWT 179B in the evening to alight pax at the opposite side of pioneer (coffee shop side) and terminate there since it is less congested. This could fill up the demand to alight at pioneer and also relieve some buses from using the congested bus stop. These BC can alternate between 179A and 179B so less traffic is going back into the interchange, while still getting their well deserved rest.
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I have a suggestion:
Create another service on 179 that loops in another direction. Similar to how the Bukit Panjang LRT works, maybe this new service can go in the other direction (via Nanyang Drive) as the original service (via Lien Ying Chow Drive).
- Half of the buses deployed to the original 179 can be re-deployed to this new service.
- I have visited NTU before (just) to try out 179 during evening peak period. Personally, I feel that the buses on 179 are not crowded at all, in particular at the earlier part. I think it is how things look like (psychology/illusion) which makes it seem as if there is a crowding problem, as there are many people queuing in a narrow bus shelter to board one bus.
- The boarding issues can be seen more at the later part of the loop, probably because the buses are already loaded at the earlier parts. By having a new service looping in another direction, boarding the bus from the Chinese Heritage Centre area (the later part of the loop of the original 179) would be easier as the buses just enter NTU campus and are not loaded yet.
- Meanwhile, with this new service, the crowding problem at the other parts of the loop may not even look crowded anymore as the crowd would be split into 2 and half of it would go over to the other side of the road to board the bus.
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
I have a suggestion:
Create another service on 179 that loops in another direction. Similar to how the Bukit Panjang LRT works, maybe this new service can go in the other direction (via Nanyang Drive) as the original service (via Lien Ying Chow Drive).
- Half of the buses deployed to the original 179 can be re-deployed to this new service.
- I have visited NTU before (just) to try out 179 during evening peak period. Personally, I feel that the buses on 179 are not crowded at all, in particular at the earlier part. I think it is how things look like (psychology/illusion) which makes it seem as if there is a crowding problem, as there are many people queuing in a narrow bus shelter to board one bus.
- The boarding issues can be seen more at the later part of the loop, probably because the buses are already loaded at the earlier parts. By having a new service looping in another direction, boarding the bus from the Chinese Heritage Centre area (the later part of the loop of the original 179) would be easier as the buses just enter NTU campus and are not loaded yet.
- Meanwhile, with this new service, the crowding problem at the other parts of the loop may not even look crowded anymore as the crowd would be split into 2 and half of it would go over to the other side of the road to board the bus.
This is what I feel. 179 current # of buses are managing the load quite well. I dont see a need for Bsep or additional buses. On an average, I would say each bus has 60-70 pax during peak. Booz of bunching, you might observe some buses awfully crowded, while a few empty. In total, I have never had a major issue with 179, maybe had to leave a bus coz I saw on iris the bus behind is in 2 mins.
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
I have a suggestion:
Create another service on 179 that loops in another direction. Similar to how the Bukit Panjang LRT works, maybe this new service can go in the other direction (via Nanyang Drive) as the original service (via Lien Ying Chow Drive).
- Half of the buses deployed to the original 179 can be re-deployed to this new service.
- I have visited NTU before (just) to try out 179 during evening peak period. Personally, I feel that the buses on 179 are not crowded at all, in particular at the earlier part. I think it is how things look like (psychology/illusion) which makes it seem as if there is a crowding problem, as there are many people queuing in a narrow bus shelter to board one bus.
- The boarding issues can be seen more at the later part of the loop, probably because the buses are already loaded at the earlier parts. By having a new service looping in another direction, boarding the bus from the Chinese Heritage Centre area (the later part of the loop of the original 179) would be easier as the buses just enter NTU campus and are not loaded yet.
- Meanwhile, with this new service, the crowding problem at the other parts of the loop may not even look crowded anymore as the crowd would be split into 2 and half of it would go over to the other side of the road to board the bus.
And you are right... There is definitely a perception issue and few that make the problem sound larger than it is. If to clear the perception, we want to create two loops, we can. That would in turn reduce the frequency at each stop, and stain people will complain.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
I still take 179 and 179A daily but for the PM peak, it is still a headache (not saying it is not a headache on other services).
Stopping at Pioneer is generally good at other times but at PM peak, every single full DD takes almost 2 minutes to completely offload. Together with 241, 255, Pioneer shuttle and the factory buses which eats up 1 of the 2 lanes, the entire road is already congested even without 179A stopping there. All thats needed to bring traffic to a standstill is a impatient driver who lets pax off while having the tail of the bus blocking the other lane.
From a operator standpoint, it is not easy to balance the pax between 179 and 179A, because if more 179 are operated, the pioneer stretch gets congested which will eventually affect the runtime of many buses. More 179A are operated, then the alighting bay at BNL itself gets congested.
Perhaps an alternative option would be to have a SWT 179B in the evening to alight pax at the opposite side of pioneer (coffee shop side) and terminate there since it is less congested. This could fill up the demand to alight at pioneer and also relieve some buses from using the congested bus stop. These BC can alternate between 179A and 179B so less traffic is going back into the interchange, while still getting their well deserved rest.
I agree with your point about the rush at Pioneer stop. During PM peak! almost all of 179/255/257 alights at Pioneer MRT stop and each bus can take up to 2 ,mins to unload. I think this issue can be resolved only once JOO Koon comes up and then the load is distributed. Already some services like 182/254 do not call at Pioneer and go express from Boon Lay due to bus stop issue at Pioneer. I don't think much can be done about this today.
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
I have a suggestion:
Create another service on 179 that loops in another direction. Similar to how the Bukit Panjang LRT works, maybe this new service can go in the other direction (via Nanyang Drive) as the original service (via Lien Ying Chow Drive).
- Half of the buses deployed to the original 179 can be re-deployed to this new service.
- I have visited NTU before (just) to try out 179 during evening peak period. Personally, I feel that the buses on 179 are not crowded at all, in particular at the earlier part. I think it is how things look like (psychology/illusion) which makes it seem as if there is a crowding problem, as there are many people queuing in a narrow bus shelter to board one bus.
- The boarding issues can be seen more at the later part of the loop, probably because the buses are already loaded at the earlier parts. By having a new service looping in another direction, boarding the bus from the Chinese Heritage Centre area (the later part of the loop of the original 179) would be easier as the buses just enter NTU campus and are not loaded yet.
- Meanwhile, with this new service, the crowding problem at the other parts of the loop may not even look crowded anymore as the crowd would be split into 2 and half of it would go over to the other side of the road to board the bus.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:And you are right... There is definitely a perception issue and few that make the problem sound larger than it is. If to clear the perception, we want to create two loops, we can. That would in turn reduce the frequency at each stop, and stain people will complain.
It is not (only) about clearing perception. This idea is mainly about diverting the crowd and making bus rides on 179 more comfortable.
Regarding the reduced frequecy and longer waiting time, this is perhaps inevitable. This is perhaps what NTU commuters have to trade-off for less crowding and quicker boarding. Anyway, on the positive side, I'm sure (most of) the students have access to wi-fi, where they can check what time the bus arrives and leave for the bus stop just on time. I don't think reduced frequency would be a problem.
I think I got the idea after viewing http://youtu.be/aUuqq8RcaEg and saw the Red and Blue campus loop shuttle bus services: they run in opposite directions as each other. Somehow, this makes me think of the Bukit Panjang LRT and... *light bulb*
If NTU can come up with this idea of having its two internal shuttle bus services run in opposite directions(probably to split up the crowd), why not also propose this idea on 179?
The earlier part of the loop of original 179 can enter/leave the campus via Lien Ying Chow Drive. The later part of the loop of original 179 can enter/leave the campus via Nanyang Drive. This would split the crowd into two, while enhance the bus connectivity within the campus.
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
I have a suggestion:
Create another service on 179 that loops in another direction. Similar to how the Bukit Panjang LRT works, maybe this new service can go in the other direction (via Nanyang Drive) as the original service (via Lien Ying Chow Drive).
- Half of the buses deployed to the original 179 can be re-deployed to this new service.
- I have visited NTU before (just) to try out 179 during evening peak period. Personally, I feel that the buses on 179 are not crowded at all, in particular at the earlier part. I think it is how things look like (psychology/illusion) which makes it seem as if there is a crowding problem, as there are many people queuing in a narrow bus shelter to board one bus.
- The boarding issues can be seen more at the later part of the loop, probably because the buses are already loaded at the earlier parts. By having a new service looping in another direction, boarding the bus from the Chinese Heritage Centre area (the later part of the loop of the original 179) would be easier as the buses just enter NTU campus and are not loaded yet.
- Meanwhile, with this new service, the crowding problem at the other parts of the loop may not even look crowded anymore as the crowd would be split into 2 and half of it would go over to the other side of the road to board the bus.
If the suggestion is to create congestion within NTU itself, then yes that works.
The roads in NTU are not wide enough to allow large vehicles to pass at a high frequency. Even now 179 have to yield to opposite buses when turning after LWN library, and near the bus stop before innovation center.
Also, that would be rather pointless since there would effectively be no boarding after WKWSCI since the rest of the route can be covered by 199.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
If the suggestion is to create congestion within NTU itself, then yes that works.
The roads in NTU are not wide enough to allow large vehicles to pass at a high frequency. Even now 179 have to yield to opposite buses when turning after LWN library, and near the bus stop before innovation center.
possible solution: create bus lanes for the shuttle buses and public buses serving NTU commuters. If need be, expand the roads to accomodate the addition of bus lanes.
Either way, the costs would be (much) lower than investing in LRT system or some driverless transport(http://media.ntu.edu.sg/NewsReleases/Pages/newsdetail.aspx?news=635afd55-4f9b-484a-a658-2187e2bb788d) in NTU.
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
possible solution: create bus lanes for the shuttle buses and public buses serving NTU commuters. If need be, expand the roads to accomodate the addition of bus lanes.
Either way, the costs would be (much) lower than investing in LRT system or some driverless transport(http://media.ntu.edu.sg/NewsReleases/Pages/newsdetail.aspx?news=635afd55-4f9b-484a-a658-2187e2bb788d) in NTU.
Again, there is no need yet. The issue is made to sound larger than it is. 179 is doing the job well.
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Aiya just introduced 179E from Boon Lay to NTU for AM peak with 6 buses and vice versa for PM peak NTU to Boon Lay skipping Pioneer Stn
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Aiya just introduced 179E from Boon Lay to NTU for AM peak with 6 buses and vice versa for PM peak NTU to Boon Lay skipping Pioneer Stn
Indeed, the traffic jams can be quite serious sometimes, such that you can watch the sky turn bright or dark during the jam. I believe the reason behind this suggestion is because of the usual traffic jams along sections of Pioneer Road North near Pioneer MRT Station.
Personally, I think that (at least) the section of Pioneer Road North between Jurong West Avenue 4 and Boon Lay Way (and the section of Jurong West Street 63 until the traffic junction at the other end of Pioneer MRT station) should (at least) have a normal bus lane specially for public buses to use during morning peak hours. Otherwise, as I’ve mentioned previously, there should not be any more new public buses added to the existing bus routes or have new bus routes plying (at least the section of) Pioneer Road North.
If for some reasons the idea of having (at least) a normal bus lane at Pioneer Road North is rejected, then I think the only thing to do is to re-route some bus routes to the minor roads (using Jurong West Ave 4 and Jurong West Street 61) and have less bus routes plying the section of Pioneer Road North after Avenue 4 and towards the AYE.
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It was so peaceful then before Pioneer MRT Station opens. Everybody went to only Boon Lay MRT Station to take train and there was no traffic jam that serious (at least) at the section of Pioneer Road North between Jurong West Avenue 4 and Boon Lay Way.
Nonetheless, the traffic jams back then at the sections of Jurong West Avenue 4 (nearer to the cluster of temples), Jalan Boon Lay, Boon Lay Way and Jurong West Street 81 are still present today.
When LTA reviews the public bus network of the Jurong West Extension again, (at least) in tandem with the opening of Joo Koon Bus Interchange in 2015, I hope that the bus routes plying such roads can be re-routed somehow. Similarly, bus lanes should be added to those sections of roads, unless the bus routes are adjusted somehow.
Actually, if there is a good road and public bus connection to Pioneer MRT Station, some bus routes(eg.243G/181) from Boon Lay Bus Interchange and some roads near Boon Lay MRT Station would not be so heavily utilised during peak hours because more people would use Pioneer MRT Station and less would use Boon Lay MRT Station. Therefore, instead of avoiding Pioneer MRT Station, LTA should review the bus routes and do some changes to the roads(eg. add bus lanes), to take advantage of Pioneer MRT Station to relieve the crowding conditions at Boon Lay Bus Interchange and the traffic jams on roads near Boon Lay MRT Station and also at other parts of Jurong West Extension, when people are encouraged to switch to public transport as the public bus connection to Pioneer MRT Station is enhanced.
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Are you Pang Soon Tan?