[BSEP] New Service 972 from 17th Nov (Bt Panjang-Orchard Rd)
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Went past BKE at 1pm plus just now and saw a 190 bendy with no standees at all, followed by a 972 packed to the door... And then another 190 bendy practically empty and then a 972 with only seating pax...
And then a svc 700A with around 20 standees with all seats occupied.
All heading to town...
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
BSEP bro...
How will 700 lose bendy when 972 is BSEP...
Coz if loading on 700 drops, SMRT, who is already in a crunch of high capacity buses, can deploy this on it's other services that need more bendy. Have you not noticed how 61 has lost be dies - now has only 1.
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A child asked her dad when bus 972 is coming to the YMCA bus stop, and he replied that he's only 8% sure it is coming.
She then said she's 100% sure its coming because the bus has a hair "like an elephant" and she just spotted it from far @ looping point
Info from BIS~ number one and most popular page on Singapore buses~
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A child also ask her dad when this 388S gonna retired and her dad reply nothing can be done cause its like a disease..Cloning here n there like no tommorow
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7 mins for next bus, 61 mins for subsequent bus for sv972..
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Coz if loading on 700 drops, SMRT, who is already in a crunch of high capacity buses, can deploy this on it's other services that need more bendy. Have you not noticed how 61 has lost be dies - now has only 1.
61's rigid fleets comes more regularly than sv36 scheduled fleet
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Must be caught up in traffic. Then you will see 3-4 190 buses bunching up. You did not get 67 also for so long??
Yup! TIB561E on 67 came at around 8.15pm but i didnt board..hopefully its just delayed by traffic bah on multiple occasions, to have met it so many times at different time belts... -
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Coz if loading on 700 drops, SMRT, who is already in a crunch of high capacity buses, can deploy this on it's other services that need more bendy. Have you not noticed how 61 has lost be dies - now has only 1.
How many times must I repeat.
BSEP. Bus Service Enhancement Programme, introduce by govt to IMPROVE current bus networks, all buses involved are FULLY funded by the govt, one of its promise is: no rationalisation of existing bus services if the reason is due to BSEP or related whatsoever.
Idk about DTL, but 972 will definitely not be the factor for the (possible) fleet cut of 700.
Please dont go around sounding professional and talking about the bus division when you have not answered my question... In fact, my question has alr shot your point down and yet you wanna go round and round and give me these wonderfully beautiful baloney of yours...
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
How many times must I repeat.
BSEP. Bus Service Enhancement Programme, introduce by govt to IMPROVE current bus networks, all buses involved are FULLY funded by the govt, one of its promise is: no rationalisation of existing bus services if the reason is due to BSEP or related whatsoever.
Idk about DTL, but 972 will definitely not be the factor for the (possible) fleet cut of 700.
Please dont go around sounding professional and talking about the bus division when you have not answered my question... In fact, my question has alr shot your point down and yet you wanna go round and round and give me these wonderfully beautiful baloney of yours...
You know I don't care a damn about your opinion. I say what appeals to my sensibilities. If you don't agree, take a hike or ignore it. I feel 700 will have some changes in coming months. 972 is more and more going to take the load away from it. You disagree, so be it.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
You know I don't care a damn about your opinion. I say what appeals to my sensibilities. If you don't agree, take a hike or ignore it. I feel 700 will have some changes in coming months. 972 is more and more going to take the load away from it. You disagree, so be it.
Haha
Admit it, you know nothing about BSEP
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I think one point to clarify here is that BSEP services/enhancements as what SMB128B has mentioned are meant to improve bus connectivity and frequencies.
They are not expected to be profitable (otherwise the bus co. would be operating it and not be labeled as BSEP nor using BSEP equipment). LTA pays SBST and SMRT whatever amount it costs to run the BSEP routes (and enhancements) and all of the fare revenue goes back into the 1.1bil funds, making it profit neutral for both SBST and SMRT.
Since the goal is to improve connectivity, there is no need for any explainations why some of the loads of BSEP services such as 120 do not have sustainable (or breakeven) loads.
The exceptions to this are the CityDirect services which are tendered out to pte bus co. which receives a fixed sum of money for running the routes. These are rather expensive to run since they are not running at cost, but at a profit to the pte co. I believe a fellow forumer previously did an analysis showing that each trip costs nearly $500 to run for CityDirect 651.
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Ok let's put it this way, when svc 50 was introduced, 163's load took a huge blow. But a question: Was svc 163's fleet touched a single time at any time between the day svc 50 was born, and today? Despite 163's load drop, why aren't some of the DDs being cut? Even its huge load demand at Fernvale are slowly drifting away, though there are other high loading sectors but not comparable to the load it used to exist on 163's Fernvale leg. Why no fleet cut?
Let me tell you another truth of 700A that nobody here has mentioned. During weekends, one of the biggest crowds of people who would be commuting within the city centre would be those going to Suntec/Esplanade from Orchard Rd. There are two services, 36 and 700A that can bring the 50-70 pax load to their destination. Neither of these services have gotten any BSEP add as of now, and not counting 700's add as it does not do 700A. So on what grounds are you to say 700A's load will be affected? It's rigids are seen packed to the door and some even have to wait for bus 36 (which will again be packed), so why will its bendies go?
972 is introduced as a mean to RELIEVE the congestion; not everyone will take 972, they take it at their own convenience. I can tell you, for example residents at BPJ City Centre, they won't want to ride 972 through numerous HDB estates before going onto BLE, correct? If it is meant to IMPROVE, why REVERSE it by taking away 700's bendies? Anyway the buses are paid by the govt what.
As for 700, never underestimate the loading at the office areas. During PM peak, Tanjong Pagar alone receives more than 30 pax, and an additional 30 would board before it crosses over to Raffles City, where more pax would board. As it reaches Orchard, some would alight for dinner, but some who have happened to want to go back to BPJ would want to take the first bus they see, and in this case 700. By the time it departs Ngee Ann city the bus would have been full of standees. I know this becoz I take it sometimes from my friend's office at TP during PM peak with him to Ngee Ann City for dinner.
So what does this show? It's not a must 700 would receive downgrades, I believe it won't for now, not sure when DTL comes in, but for now it should remain as it is.
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190 should have at least 37 DDs and 3 SDs in future
700 should have 10 DDs 8 SDs
972 8 DDs 6 SDs
971E should operate from 0700-0845/1730-1930
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today 190 win..was waiting for 307 at LOT 1 stop at around 1.40pm when TIB1034D came. 5 mins later, TIB1119T came and 1 min later, TIB1082P arrived with no pax in bus. Bus skipped Lot 1 stop too as all pax boarded 1119 and 1119 just departed the bus bay...
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Ok let's put it this way, when svc 50 was introduced, 163's load took a huge blow. But a question: Was svc 163's fleet touched a single time at any time between the day svc 50 was born, and today? Despite 163's load drop, why aren't some of the DDs being cut? Even its huge load demand at Fernvale are slowly drifting away, though there are other high loading sectors but not comparable to the load it used to exist on 163's Fernvale leg. Why no fleet cut?
Let me tell you another truth of 700A that nobody here has mentioned. During weekends, one of the biggest crowds of people who would be commuting within the city centre would be those going to Suntec/Esplanade from Orchard Rd. There are two services, 36 and 700A that can bring the 50-70 pax load to their destination. Neither of these services have gotten any BSEP add as of now, and not counting 700's add as it does not do 700A. So on what grounds are you to say 700A's load will be affected? It's rigids are seen packed to the door and some even have to wait for bus 36 (which will again be packed), so why will its bendies go?
972 is introduced as a mean to RELIEVE the congestion; not everyone will take 972, they take it at their own convenience. I can tell you, for example residents at BPJ City Centre, they won't want to ride 972 through numerous HDB estates before going onto BLE, correct? If it is meant to IMPROVE, why REVERSE it by taking away 700's bendies? Anyway the buses are paid by the govt what.
As for 700, never underestimate the loading at the office areas. During PM peak, Tanjong Pagar alone receives more than 30 pax, and an additional 30 would board before it crosses over to Raffles City, where more pax would board. As it reaches Orchard, some would alight for dinner, but some who have happened to want to go back to BPJ would want to take the first bus they see, and in this case 700. By the time it departs Ngee Ann city the bus would have been full of standees. I know this becoz I take it sometimes from my friend's office at TP during PM peak with him to Ngee Ann City for dinner.
So what does this show? It's not a must 700 would receive downgrades, I believe it won't for now, not sure when DTL comes in, but for now it should remain as it is.
163 AM load still strong. Sv 50 has taken its load from Fernvale to Sengkang MRT but not towards YCK road and Upper Thomson. AM peak still has load of 80+ pax. SD cannot manage this load. PM peak also has 70+ load at ST electronics / Motorolla. If DDs are taken out, it will be huge inconvenience. If the load had really dropped between 50 to 60 pax peak loading, SBST could have considered redeploying DDs to another service. The DDs on 163 are here to stay...
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
190 should have at least 37 DDs and 3 SDs in future
700 should have 10 DDs 8 SDs
972 8 DDs 6 SDs
971E should operate from 0700-0845/1730-1930
You see that happening? I would also add 985 which really needs capacity upgrade.
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Since there's BSEP 972, can some 190 bendy(max. 3) can deploy to other resources??
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
163 AM load still strong. Sv 50 has taken its load from Fernvale to Sengkang MRT but not towards YCK road and Upper Thomson. AM peak still has load of 80+ pax. SD cannot manage this load. PM peak also has 70+ load at ST electronics / Motorolla. If DDs are taken out, it will be huge inconvenience. If the load had really dropped between 50 to 60 pax peak loading, SBST could have considered redeploying DDs to another service. The DDs on 163 are here to stay...
Finally you got the logic.
700/A has load from CBD/Suntec respectively. So its bendies are here to stay?
972 may have taken its load from BPJ - Orchard , but just two days ago I was cramming on a 700A towards Suntec from Somerset, on a bloody A22.
Yes, you acknowledge the loading had dropped for 163 from Sengkang to Fernvale. But do you know how much load is taken away? SBST would've done something to its fleet long ago, but did they?
Why not? Coz svc 50 belongs to BSEP.
And 972 is BSEP too!
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Finally you got the logic.
700/A has load from CBD/Suntec respectively. So its bendies are here to stay?
972 may have taken its load from BPJ - Orchard , but just two days ago I was cramming on a 700A towards Suntec from Somerset, on a bloody A22.
Yes, you acknowledge the loading had dropped for 163 from Sengkang to Fernvale. But do you know how much load is taken away? SBST would've done something to its fleet long ago, but did they?
Why not? Coz svc 50 belongs to BSEP.
And 972 is BSEP too!
I got your logic but you did not get mine.The DDs on 163 are not for the Sengkang side. They are for the Fernvale - YCK Road - Upp Thomson side. Sv 50 does not influence the loading in any of its sector here.
Also don't discount that 163M also still has a good number of pax boarding the bus at Punggol Road - transferring from sv 88, 80, 87 etc here.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Since there's BSEP 972, can some 190 bendy(max. 3) can deploy to other resources??
That will not happen. Sv 190 load is here to stay. If loading drops on any service with introduction of 972, it is sv 700. Most people would take LRT/feeder to BPJ Int and change to 700 to city. With 972, they don't need to do that. -
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I got your logic but you did not get mine.The DDs on 163 are not for the Sengkang side. They are for the Fernvale - YCK Road - Upp Thomson side. Sv 50 does not influence the loading in any of its sector here.
Also don't discount that 163M also still has a good number of pax boarding the bus at Punggol Road - transferring from sv 88, 80, 87 etc here.
Okay fine, I buy your argument.
But you have just explained yourself clear enough why 972 won't affect 700's fleet, in the past few posts, through the use of 163. So what's your view now?
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If worst comes the worst, 700 can be extended to YT and given fleet add, so as to serve the YT residents while at the same time serve BPJ residents going to CBD/Suntec.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Okay fine, I buy your argument.
But you have just explained yourself clear enough why 972 won't affect 700's fleet, in the past few posts, through the use of 163. So what's your view now?
My view is if 700 load goes down, and people prefer taking 190/972 compared to 700, SMRT should give the bendy to 190 and replace it with rigid. Anyway, this is if it happens and is in the future. I suspect the loading to fall. -
Originally posted by SMB128B:
If worst comes the worst, 700 can be extended to YT and given fleet add, so as to serve the YT residents while at the same time serve BPJ residents going to CBD/Suntec.
Yeah we discussed that. It makes the most logical sense to extend 700 to CCK via Woodlands Rd, Yew Tee. This way 700 can gain new customers.
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Observed when i was chilling at Orchard.190 4 buses in 20 mins frame,1st OC full load but not till front door,2nd Habit also full loads this time till front door,3rd Habit fully seated with probably 10 standees and last MK2 bendy 3/4 loads.972 got 3 buses in 32 mins frame and first two buses all packed to the brim while the last one fully seated with few standees.700 4 buses in 45 mins frame and 1st is A22 packed like sardines,2nd OC fully seated no standees,3rd a Habit half full and last A22 packed also.