Inspite of BSEP, do SMRT services still need improvement?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Well you are right. I have a MBA and hence, most of my comments are taking the business perspective in mind. I don't see economic sense in just adding buses when you can do the same with plying higher capacity buses. You pay the BC more, you spend more on the fuel, ERP, maintenance, monitoring - everything right?
Regarding 985, how does it parallel EWL/NSL? The route is completely different. Regarding 857, the same goes. It is a faster alternative via CTE to city and with the heavy crowds on NSL, SMRT should promote services like 857 even more. That means SBST should deploy only SDs on 107, 133, 147 as most of its route parallels the NEL. I don't get your logic here - so maybe we agree to disagree :)
What upsets me is the time the management has taken to make a decision on high capacity buses - more than a year back the tender was floated. Nothing really has been done about it. As most other users here also have mentioned, they need to get DDs. As other users are saying, SMRT is completely relying on its improvements through BSEP. Now to me, it just seems that you are biased to not see where they are failing!?
The last statement is a little oxymoron to me, i do agree that they are failing but the reasons that we give are different. How would that be a bias?
The closest that i can think of are 985 and 857. I can't even find routes that SMRT has which runs competing with it's train services which i find it a big issue. I'm not exactly looking at parallel services, but more towards something like how services like 97 can provide an viable alternative to trains if travelling from jue to cbd despite a slightly longer travelling time but with a benefit of a seat. Simply said, i find that their bus network is currently such that it will not eat into the revenue of it's trains.
For the same reason, my thoughts are that they do not wish to grow their bus division at all, because they foresee trains to be better revenue generating and rail growth in the future will diminish both the profitability and demand of bus services. Or in other words, they are being forced to run buses.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
The last statement is a little oxymoron to me, i do agree that they are failing but the reasons that we give are different. How would that be a bias?
The closest that i can think of are 985 and 857. I can't even find routes that SMRT has which runs competing with it's train services which i find it a big issue. I'm not exactly looking at parallel services, but more towards something like how services like 97 can provide an viable alternative to trains if travelling from jue to cbd despite a slightly longer travelling time but with a benefit of a seat. Simply said, i find that their bus network is currently such that it will not eat into the revenue of it's trains.
For the same reason, my thoughts are that they do not wish to grow their bus division at all, because they foresee trains to be better revenue generating and rail growth in the future will diminish both the profitability and demand of bus services. Or in other words, they are being forced to run buses.
Same goes for SBST what.
Name me any services that duplicates the NEL and travel time between the places doesn't take 20 mins more than the MRT.
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Lol
oops wrong thread.
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This battle scenario is happening:
Land Transport Authority/‪#‎SMRT‬ used ‪#‎Bus‬ ‪#‎Service‬ ‪#‎Enhancement‬ ‪#‎Programme‬! It had no effect on Service #190.....
Service 190 used full house buses! It's super effective! Land Transport Authority/SMRT was poisoned with complaints....
Land Transport Authority/SMRT fainted!
Info from BIS most creative and popular page on Singapore buses~
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As what i suggest 972 from BPJ loop at Orchard(SMU)
982 CCK loop at BPJ
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Same goes for SBST what.
Name me any services that duplicates the NEL and travel time between the places doesn't take 20 mins more than the MRT.
Yup, the same goes for SBST, but currently their rail operations is still small.
Which is why I mentioned in the previous posts that I hope that they will not do the same to their bus ops once they start running the full DTL.
This is the problem with multi-modal transport operators, which previously the gov't has encouraged.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Yup, the same goes for SBST, but currently their rail operations is still small.
Which is why I mentioned in the previous posts that I hope that they will not do the same to their bus ops once they start running the full DTL.
This is the problem with multi-modal transport operators, which previously the gov't has encouraged.
Yes. Before NEL and TIBS handover correct?
London has this problem too. So does Tokyo. Toei is on heavy debt and its subway lines are so much less than Tokyo Metro. That's because of its incorrect planning of its bus and train lines and thus did not earn revenue to justify the losses due to competition against Tokyo Metro.
Can this be the problem that is happening to SMRT? Not allowing the buses to earn profit and yet keep losing funds to SBST. And now SBST has risks of following suit.
Thinking back now, maybe DTL should've been awarded to SMRT in the first place... Hmmm?
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I think LTA better speed up the process of having new depots for SMRT..like that people won't be whinning about the DDs...
Likewise, I hope LTA can seriously re-route certain service[known to be obviously is 904]...
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Originally posted by SMB66X:
I think LTA better speed up the process of having new depots for SMRT..like that people won't be whinning about the DDs...
Likewise, I hope LTA can seriously re-route certain service[known to be obviously is 904]...
I think Wenya is the solution for SMRT DD woes. It will mostly replace KJDEP and will control CCK/BBT/BPJ - so at least these services can start with DDs.
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Originally posted by SMB66X:
I think LTA better speed up the process of having new depots for SMRT..like that people won't be whinning about the DDs...
Likewise, I hope LTA can seriously re-route certain service[known to be obviously is 904]...
904 route fine la.. What change you want in it?
120/141 should consider re-routing/extension for sure.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Here is the video posted on service 190 at Scotts Road stop, where person had to leave 13 buses to catch a bus (of course a little exagerrated).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQlayJE8Qs&sns
But it goes to show that even after BSEP/LTA efforts of adding MANs to 190, it still proves ineffective. All buses during peak are crowded to the door.
Tell me one service in SBST where pax have to leave buses to enter one. LTA has been ineffective where SMRT services are concerned and main reason is lack of high capacity buses.
Haha I'm sorry, just watched the video and finally got your (odd) definition of the word "leave".
Service 23 has this problem. Every weekday, 7pm without fail, pax at Boon Keng wait in agony as the buses pass by one by one. And what about Service 27? 4pm onwards till night, all the buses pass by IKEA without stopping. I once had to miss three buses before finally a citaro packed to the door finally got to clear some pax and I was lucky to have gotten to board.
Even Service 50 has it. Some unlucky Anchorvale residents have to miss at least 2 DDs during weekends before they can get onto the bus to Punggol East. That's because of the Fernvale residents.
So what I want to say is, don't be too biased against SMRT. Yes, it is 13 buses, but this is an extreme case (serves the guy right for not trying to board) and moreover BSEP is not to blame. And SBST has this overcrowding scenario too. On services where even the DDs perm. Both operators have the fault, and it is up to them to do something to adjust operations on high-demand services so that BSEP can be put into good use. BSEP is good, but still it depends on the operator in the end.
On a last note, I wanna tell you that despite BSEP some 87 Wrights still skip stops at Eunos Link.
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Bsep to cater more crowds and our population is getting increased..87 somemore plied many factories
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87 is packed because it's the fastest and perhaps one of the few svcs that brings workers to their workplace plus it's route is short.
50 is not so jialat during sundays. Overexaggerated
27 still okay, 3 buses within 10 mins.
Unlike 113, u miss one bus, next bus is 10-15 minutes later.
and the next bus is also full to the brim also wad.
Whats there to complain for 27 when there are 3 buses within 10 mins?
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Haha I'm sorry, just watched the video and finally got your (odd) definition of the word "leave".
Service 23 has this problem. Every weekday, 7pm without fail, pax at Boon Keng wait in agony as the buses pass by one by one. And what about Service 27? 4pm onwards till night, all the buses pass by IKEA without stopping. I once had to miss three buses before finally a citaro packed to the door finally got to clear some pax and I was lucky to have gotten to board.
Even Service 50 has it. Some unlucky Anchorvale residents have to miss at least 2 DDs during weekends before they can get onto the bus to Punggol East. That's because of the Fernvale residents.
So what I want to say is, don't be too biased against SMRT. Yes, it is 13 buses, but this is an extreme case (serves the guy right for not trying to board) and moreover BSEP is not to blame. And SBST has this overcrowding scenario too. On services where even the DDs perm. Both operators have the fault, and it is up to them to do something to adjust operations on high-demand services so that BSEP can be put into good use. BSEP is good, but still it depends on the operator in the end.
On a last note, I wanna tell you that despite BSEP some 87 Wrights still skip stops at Eunos Link.
My friend, I somewhat agree on your comment for sv 27 but def not for sv 23 and sv 50.
I have taken sv 23 regularly, and people can board at Boon Keng and even at stops before it enters PIE with not much difficulty. Average loading on each bus is around 90-100 pax during prime peak. Either someone has misinformed you or it is a rare occassion.
For sv 50, this is not true. DDs do not take more than 80-90 pax between Fernvale and Sengkang for people along Anchorvale not to be able to board.
Considering sv 87, yes it can get extremely crowded due to Kaki Bukit, but I have to tell you that a lot of people alight on Eunos Link to transfer to other services, creating room for people to get in. Having said that prime peak, each bus can get 100-120 pax but falls along Hougang Ave 3. As of now, I would say there is no need to add more buses to sv 87.
Regarding sv 27, I somewhat agree, and you have seen my other posts complaining about sv 27 as well. Though it is not like sv 190 where people cannot board. The problem with sv 27 is bunching coz of its looping point and downroutes from Tampines Ave 4. If someone cannot enter at IKEA, they will be able to in the 2nd/3rd bus that will come behind almost immediately. I do advocate a parallel route to 27 with DDs though and I have expressed it, so I don't see any bias in my recommendations. I do criticize 120/27 as much as I do for SMRT services - just that the # of services to complain about on SMRT side is way too many and serious issues.
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to solve the problem of people moving to the back SMRT should deploy staff at bus stop where many people wait for the 190 and let people enter the back doors of the bus. And I think SMRT is not a small company. What they should do is to follow SBST buy new DDs buses and make some changes to some of the service. Forget about TIBS days that is history.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
My friend, I somewhat agree on your comment for sv 27 but def not for sv 23 and sv 50.
I have taken sv 23 regularly, and people can board at Boon Keng and even at stops before it enters PIE with not much difficulty. Average loading on each bus is around 90-100 pax during prime peak. Either someone has misinformed you or it is a rare occassion.
For sv 50, this is not true. DDs do not take more than 80-90 pax between Fernvale and Sengkang for people along Anchorvale not to be able to board.
Considering sv 87, yes it can get extremely crowded due to Kaki Bukit, but I have to tell you that a lot of people alight on Eunos Link to transfer to other services, creating room for people to get in. Having said that prime peak, each bus can get 100-120 pax but falls along Hougang Ave 3. As of now, I would say there is no need to add more buses to sv 87.
Regarding sv 27, I somewhat agree, and you have seen my other posts complaining about sv 27 as well. Though it is not like sv 190 where people cannot board. The problem with sv 27 is bunching coz of its looping point and downroutes from Tampines Ave 4. If someone cannot enter at IKEA, they will be able to in the 2nd/3rd bus that will come behind almost immediately. I do advocate a parallel route to 27 with DDs though and I have expressed it, so I don't see any bias in my recommendations. I do criticize 120/27 as much as I do for SMRT services - just that the # of services to complain about on SMRT side is way too many and serious issues.
Thanks man!
Your post has told you what is happening to 190. Don't be bias boy. Always apply the problem to other situations and compare and find the truth before you ever say something about something. In other words, always think twice before posting. And so what does it say? SBST is NOT as good as you said (though still significantly better that SMRT), NOR is SMRT as bad as you made it to be. Don't look on the surface. Look deeper. This is what I can vividly remember from Literature lessons in Secondary Sch and JC.
And BTW, I admit fault in my role of stating the services, but the example on 27 is true, and anyways you get my real intention of the post now.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Thanks man!
Your post has told you what is happening to 190. Don't be bias boy. Always apply the problem to other situations and compare and find the truth before you ever say something about something. In other words, always think twice before posting. And so what does it say? SBST is NOT as good as you said (though still significantly better that SMRT), NOR is SMRT as bad as you made it to be. Don't look on the surface. Look deeper. This is what I can vividly remember from Literature lessons in Secondary Sch and JC.
And BTW, I admit fault in my role of stating the services, but the example on 27 is true, and anyways you get my real intention of the post now.
Yes but just for the sake of making a point, don't put examples there that are not true and don't depict the situation correctly.
Let me tell you one more thing and this you will learn from no school, but from life itself. Nothing in life is perfect: No MRT system, no bus network. We have to do the best with what is available. The post that I put on sv 190 is not something I originally posted. If you go to SMRT homepage where sv 190 article is put, you can see it has gone viral. This was brought to my notice by a friend on this forum through a PM. I went through the post and was shocked to read the agony of people against SMRT. It is a huge list of comments and if you read, their sentiments are also not only on 190 but a host of SMRT services.
So it is not just me who feels that way. Cheers!
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Originally posted by SBS5010P:
87 is packed because it's the fastest and perhaps one of the few svcs that brings workers to their workplace plus it's route is short.
50 is not so jialat during sundays. Overexaggerated
27 still okay, 3 buses within 10 mins.
Unlike 113, u miss one bus, next bus is 10-15 minutes later.
and the next bus is also full to the brim also wad.
Whats there to complain for 27 when there are 3 buses within 10 mins?
Plenty.
27's frequency at night leaves much to be desired.
As for the case of 190, I think its rather unusual to miss 13 buses on a single night. That guy is suay. For myself, the most I had was missing 5 190s and 960s at Raffles Town Club.
That said, taking 190 is a frustrating experience.
Night frequency of 10 min and having SDs in the fleet can be quite a disaster for some nights.
Peak hour frequency of 20 min is not unusual, and nearly all the time, the buses crawl, making the situation already worse.
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And in general, SMRTB offers worse service.
Not to mention, SMRT doesnt offer IRIS, and mytransport doesnt show SMRT services all the time, which makes planning for journeys inferior by comparison with SBST.
For all the complaints about unreliability of IRIS, I still find it accurate most of the time.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Yes but just for the sake of making a point, don't put examples there that are not true and don't depict the situation correctly.
Let me tell you one more thing and this you will learn from no school, but from life itself. Nothing in life is perfect: No MRT system, no bus network. We have to do the best with what is available. The post that I put on sv 190 is not something I originally posted. If you go to SMRT homepage where sv 190 article is put, you can see it has gone viral. This was brought to my notice by a friend on this forum through a PM. I went through the post and was shocked to read the agony of people against SMRT. It is a huge list of comments and if you read, their sentiments are also not only on 190 but a host of SMRT services.
So it is not just me who feels that way. Cheers!
Well good you have finally realised it.
So... Would you ever be bias towards SMRT now? "No operator is perfect", so why still request at your starter post like all SBST services are best? "Name one SBST svc..." Yes indeed, so 190 is disastrous, I agree. Once I had a colleague who has to leave home an hour earlier just to wait for a 190 that can even be boarded. She stays in BPJ and the bus would have been loaded with other BPJ and CCK residents alr. But can we then generalise and say that BSEP dosent work for SMRT services? FYI I have been able to board a 965 6 mins faster than 2 years ago when BSEP wasn't even mentioned. The 2 A22s did help.
I do hope too that DDs can be brought into SMRT (for trunk services only of course) and then 190 will have effective BSEP add and then the hassle for the North-western residents will finally be a thing of the past.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Well good you have finally realised it.
So... Would you ever be bias towards SMRT now? "No operator is perfect", so why still request at your starter post like all SBST services are best? "Name one SBST svc..." Yes indeed, so 190 is disastrous, I agree. Once I had a colleague who has to leave home an hour earlier just to wait for a 190 that can even be boarded. She stays in BPJ and the bus would have been loaded with other BPJ and CCK residents alr. But can we then generalise and say that BSEP dosent work for SMRT services? FYI I have been able to board a 965 6 mins faster than 2 years ago when BSEP wasn't even mentioned. The 2 A22s did help.
I do hope too that DDs can be brought into SMRT (for trunk services only of course) and then 190 will have effective BSEP add and then the hassle for the North-western residents will finally be a thing of the past.
FYI - The topic of this forum was edited by the moderator. Secondly, my post is to make it very clear that bulk of the SMRT services still need improvement after multiple, quadruple BSEP adds.And I will maintain my statement SBST is >>>>>>>> better than SMRT.
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*Edited* Now that the mod has spoken up, I have went to check out the post again. And how would you explain? You sure SMRT-concerned services are always ineffective under BSEP??? It's your own words, not from any articles or stuff.Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
FYI - The topic of this forum was edited by the moderator. Secondly, my post is to make it very clear that bulk of the SMRT services still need improvement after multiple, quadruple BSEP adds.And I will maintain my statement SBST is >>>>>>>> better than SMRT.
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I based it on the concluding line, "LTA has been ineffective where SMRT services are concerned and main reason is lack of high capacity buses." Hope it clarifies.
For all parties, I'm trying to phrase it such that the topic is a question rather than a conclusion. If the topic can be rephrased in another way that still sounds impartial, do let me know and I'll rename it. (BusAnalyzer has greater weightage in naming this)
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
I based it on the concluding line, "LTA has been ineffective where SMRT services are concerned and main reason is lack of high capacity buses." Hope it clarifies.
For all parties, I'm trying to phrase it such that the topic is a question rather than a conclusion. If the topic can be rephrased in another way that still sounds impartial, do let me know and I'll rename it. (BusAnalyzer has greater weightage in naming this)
It's okay. I don't mind whatever way the topic name is. I just wanted to highlight the video and voes of people taking sv 190.My main pain point is: LTA launched BSEP more than a year ago. SMRT floated the tender for high capacity buses more than a year ago. SBST got DDs as part of BSEP. SMRT got just MANs. After all this, there is still no decision from SMRT management on high capacity buses. The population growth is one of the highest in SMRT area. There are so many routes that need capacity enhancement. Today they take off one bendy from 61/ 811 / 969 then add it to another service and show it as improvement. To make services WAB, services have to suffer with lesser high capacity buses.
Now all this is not bias. All these are facts.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
It's okay. I don't mind whatever way the topic name is. I just wanted to highlight the video and voes of people taking sv 190.My main pain point is: LTA launched BSEP more than a year ago. SMRT floated the tender for high capacity buses more than a year ago. SBST got DDs as part of BSEP. SMRT got just MANs. After all this, there is still no decision from SMRT management on high capacity buses. The population growth is one of the highest in SMRT area. There are so many routes that need capacity enhancement. Today they take off one bendy from 61/ 811 / 969 then add it to another service and show it as improvement. To make services WAB, services have to suffer with lesser high capacity buses.
Now all this is not bias. All these are facts.
Never mind. I dont want to argue on one stupid statement anymore.
In conclusion allow me to say that SMRT, though the worst operator I have ever experienced, is not all that bad and we cannot say SBST wins SMRT in EVERYTHING. period.
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
to solve the problem of people moving to the back SMRT should deploy staff at bus stop where many people wait for the 190 and let people enter the back doors of the bus. And I think SMRT is not a small company. What they should do is to follow SBST buy new DDs buses and make some changes to some of the service. Forget about TIBS days that is history.
Idk if any other depots have done that[deploying men down at bus stop to "scold" ppl], but so far I only see svc911 doing that. It did and somewhat improve where the 911E buses will usually skip stops[if possible with only 1 911/911E buses there] just to be able to pick up those at the 2nd last stop...
But overall, quite effective than driver's calling/announcement spamming...