Inspite of BSEP, do SMRT services still need improvement?
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
That is a partial answer.
Notice that in the video, the lady correctly pointed out that there was ample space at the rear and none of the drivers took any initiative.
How does LTA and PTOs know whether the buses are overcrowded? Clue: It is not done by simply pressing the tally counter.
Connect the dots and you will see why the improvements (if any) were inadequate.
I do understand that the IDFC is also responsible for keeping track of the current pax onboard the buses, the actions by drivers is just an additional way to highlight full buses.
In that case, shouldnt LTA downrate the "max" capacity for bendies to accomodate for people not moving in?
That should force SMRT to restrategize it's deployment of buses to cope with the more "accurate" capacity until the issue is resolved by training their drivers to get people to move in.
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Originally posted by azharjj:
is that the reason why there will be service 972?if only 190 go back SBST....
I would think 972 is short haul service between cck n built panjang.
Waiting for sv190 to go back to sbstransit. Want to see full fleet wright on 190
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
In that case, shouldnt LTA downrate the "max" capacity for bendies to accomodate for people not moving in?
That should force SMRT to deploy more buses to cope with the more "accurate" capacity until the issue is resolved by training their drivers to get people to move in.
http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/straitstimes.com/files/mar7-luituckyew-pt1.pdf
Paragraph 32.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
I do understand that the IDFC is also responsible for keeping track of the current pax onboard the buses, the actions by drivers is just an additional way to highlight full buses.
Transport planners insist on hard evidence.
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972 if true should start with 12 buses ie from BPJ-NBR using a mix of A22s and OCs since its not bsep right?
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
I'm not quite sure what would your point be?
I'm aware of this but are you saying that they are not getting pax to move in, so as to not exceed the 95% capacity? And as far as I understand, the 85% wont not take effect until the entire fleet of BSEP buses are in place.
Either way, by derating the max capacity of the artics, SMRT can still be forced to plan for additional capacity.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Transport planners insist on hard evidence.
They do, but info from cepas travel records and idfc units are currently being used as the initial step before surveyors are placed on the ground to collect the hard evidence.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
I would think 972 is short haul service between cck n built panjang.
Waiting for sv190 to go back to sbstransit. Want to see full fleet wright on 190
Eh like BPS1 ah bro
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
They do, but info from cepas travel records and idfc units are currently being used as the initial step before surveyors are placed on the ground to collect the hard evidence.
If there is no smoke, it is assumed there is no fire.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
I'm not quite sure what would your point be?
I'm aware of this but are you saying that they are not getting pax to move in, so as to not exceed the 95% capacity? And as far as I understand, the 85% wont not take effect until the entire fleet of BSEP buses are in place.
Either way, by derating the max capacity of the artics, SMRT can still be forced to plan for additional capacity.
That's quite a cynical view, but there is another possible explanation.
You are right on the new QoS 2.1 standard. SMRT will be forced to make improvements once the 85% loading standard kicks in.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
If there is no smoke, it is assumed there is no fire.
Not disagreeing on that.
The threshold value that represents "no smoke" is too high, therefore there is smoke but it is being detected as no smoke and thus no fire.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Not disagreeing on that.
The threshold value that represents "no smoke" is too high, therefore there is smoke but it is being detected as no smoke and thus no fire.
Nail. Hammer. Bang.
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Cool, this article was feature in Lian He wan bao (17 Oct)
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Although I still dont really agree with you esp on services like 334, but lets agree to disagree. I would like to say something else that i feel is the root of the problem.
The strange part, which since you have a MBA should be able to see thorugh this.
I do full agree with you on services such as 857 and 985 needing more high capacity buses, but unfortunately they will never get them. Its not that SMRT cannot run a bus operations properly, but rather they are looking at this from a financial perspective.
Remember that part of the trunk routes operated by SMRT duplicates with their train services which in your example is both 857 and 985 to a certain extent. The passenger pools is partly shared with the trains, but since they can fully utilise the SD buses, why would they put higher capacity buses there? They would rather not be spending money by improving on services that they can cater to with trains. I.e. Fighting for the same revenue source within the company.
Perhaps this is why SMRT seem to sit back and just focus on their train operations now while SBST is doing alot to compete with pax that would normally take the trains.
Of course they are taking action, but only on services that wont affect their train ops (969A and premium services anyone?). So much for a profit generating multi-modal transport company.
One thing i hope not to see is SBST letting go of bus services along their DTL corridor, but as a public listed company, it still waits to be seen if their interest is on profits for shareholders or passengers.
Well you are right. I have a MBA and hence, most of my comments are taking the business perspective in mind. I don't see economic sense in just adding buses when you can do the same with plying higher capacity buses. You pay the BC more, you spend more on the fuel, ERP, maintenance, monitoring - everything right?
Regarding 985, how does it parallel EWL/NSL? The route is completely different. Regarding 857, the same goes. It is a faster alternative via CTE to city and with the heavy crowds on NSL, SMRT should promote services like 857 even more. That means SBST should deploy only SDs on 107, 133, 147 as most of its route parallels the NEL. I don't get your logic here - so maybe we agree to disagree :)
What upsets me is the time the management has taken to make a decision on high capacity buses - more than a year back the tender was floated. Nothing really has been done about it. As most other users here also have mentioned, they need to get DDs. As other users are saying, SMRT is completely relying on its improvements through BSEP. Now to me, it just seems that you are biased to not see where they are failing!?
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
I think it is important to note that nearly all of the BSEP fleet additions by SMRT including the ones for 190 are split shifts... they should try to time their high capacity buses to arrive at certain major bus stops/bus interchanges better.... but most importantly, SMRT should wake up and smell the coffee, and get double deckers as soon as it can!
I 100% agree with you. -
Originally posted by sgbuses:
That is a partial answer.
Notice that in the video, the lady correctly pointed out that there was ample space at the rear and none of the drivers took any initiative.
How does LTA and PTOs know whether the buses are overcrowded? Clue: It is not done by simply pressing the tally counter.
Connect the dots and you will see why the improvements (if any) were inadequate.
Yes the rear of most buses standing has space. I had once asked a SL on bendy on 854 on HG Ave 3. The bendy was full with ample space at the rare. I spotted this and told the SL. He said that he can't shout in the other boggie of the bus (these were his words). And to think of it he is right, even if he yells from the front of the bus, hardly the people at the back will here it. At least for rigids and DDs they can do it and do it many times.And this has become an everyday thing for them, so I think they have even lost sensitivity around it.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
N the drivers still purposely close the exit doors without checking? 14 buses in 100 mins. Is it enough? Average 7-8 mins frequency on a Friday night with some rigid as well ? I think sbstransit is having at least 4-5 mins frequency last time n with full fleet DD. n maybe Tom night we will see mr Lui standing at that bus stop
LTA does not shrug in taking bold decisions. I don't know why they are waiting on 190. They should at least try giving it back to SBST. They have the DDs to ply on it. BBDEP can do sv 190. It can transfer 170/170X to SMRT to make it equal and SMRT can happily deploy its rigids on it and no one will bother. -
Originally posted by lemon1974:
I would think 972 is short haul service between cck n built panjang.
Waiting for sv190 to go back to sbstransit. Want to see full fleet wright on 190
Me too
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Yes, agreed. But at least the relief is, it is almost full fleet bendy. Though with bendy the bigger issue is people not moving to the end. And BC cannot shout and tell people at the rare to move behind.Yes, based on my observation you're right. But instead of deploying full bendy fleet in non-peak, they can bring rigids in at random invervals. Then deploy two bendies during peak our for each run. Once I see BC come via back door and say move back. Damn jialat. 300's fleet IS full bendy. Not almost. Those rigids you see are x-overs from 188. But something is bad, 300 sometimes during peak hours go downroute. This causes bus stops before Sunshine Place to be too crowded. That's why school-going kids like me have to take the bus before 6:40AM or be late for school.
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until the DTL opening which is 2014 or 2015? then newton MRT station will be pack with people use to take 190
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Although I still dont really agree with you esp on services like 334, but lets agree to disagree. I would like to say something else that i feel is the root of the problem.
The strange part, which since you have a MBA should be able to see thorugh this.
I do full agree with you on services such as 857 and 985 needing more high capacity buses, but unfortunately they will never get them. Its not that SMRT cannot run a bus operations properly, but rather they are looking at this from a financial perspective.
Remember that part of the trunk routes operated by SMRT duplicates with their train services which in your example is both 857 and 985 to a certain extent. The passenger pools is partly shared with the trains, but since they can fully utilise the SD buses, why would they put higher capacity buses there? They would rather not be spending money by improving on services that they can cater to with trains. I.e. Fighting for the same revenue source within the company.
Perhaps this is why SMRT seem to sit back and just focus on their train operations now while SBST is doing alot to compete with pax that would normally take the trains.
Of course they are taking action, but only on services that wont affect their train ops (969A and premium services anyone?). So much for a profit generating multi-modal transport company.
One thing i hope not to see is SBST letting go of bus services along their DTL corridor, but as a public listed company, it still waits to be seen if their interest is on profits for shareholders or passengers.
Although SBST will not let go all their bus routes along their DTL corridor is mainly because of MRT breakdowns. MRT breakdowns put to a wake-up call to a stop to MRT rationalisation.
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
until the DTL opening which is 2014 or 2015? then newton MRT station will be pack with people use to take 190
Mid-2016
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
I would think 972 is short haul service between cck n built panjang.
Waiting for sv190 to go back to sbstransit. Want to see full fleet wright on 190
SMRT service 190 will still be SMRT whole day long. It has been a long time because it is awarded straight to the tender, unless there is a relaxing rule saying SBS can run 190.
SBS Transit 190???? Dream on.....
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Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:
Although SBST will not let go all their bus routes along their DTL corridor is mainly because of MRT breakdowns. MRT breakdowns put to a wake-up call to a stop to MRT rationalisation.
Though it will impact frequency that 65/66 have today. -
Originally posted by wsy1234:
until the DTL opening which is 2014 or 2015? then newton MRT station will be pack with people use to take 190
Still think 190 will be very popular if LTA takes measures to improve it. People would prefer the direct service still over LRT + DTL + NSL. Too much hassle, no!?