BSEP wave for 18th February 2013
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Sv 10, 12, 354 at least At the same time, Sv 193/ 240 trip reduction. Sv 15 to meet QoS max headway limit allowed.
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Wah Bedok depot bsep.354 add 1 split shift uh?
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Sv 10, 12, 354 at least
At the same time, Sv 193/ 240 trip reduction.
Sv 15 to meet QoS max headway limit allowed.
svc 10, 12 to get a Wright?
Didn't think these 2 bus services really needed a BSEP addition ~ doing quite fine in managing load with current fleet.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
svc 10, 12 to get a Wright?
Didn't think these 2 bus services really needed a BSEP addition ~ doing quite fine in managing load with current fleet.
Wrong.
10 needs to improve during morning rush Hours to CBD. 12 is very packed during evening peak.
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Sv 354 think getting 2 bus Peak freq will become 6 - 10 mins...
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Sv 10, 12, 354 at least
At the same time, Sv 193/ 240 trip reduction.
Sv 15 to meet QoS max headway limit allowed.
Are these the only changes / improvements? Quite few considering the number of Citaros registered. 193/240 was not BSEP so that is SBST trip reduction.
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AMDEP side should be sv22 53 n maybe sv60
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
svc 10, 12 to get a Wright?
Didn't think these 2 bus services really needed a BSEP addition ~ doing quite fine in managing load with current fleet.
Err. I wouldn't go all the way to say that you're wrong, but both services do need more fleet adds, if not BSEP ones.
Firstly, there's a reason why Sv 10 also has something called Sv 10e since years ago yeah. Sv 12 on the other hand managed that peak hour crowd daily for so many years without any shortworking trips, much less any FFw trips.
Secondly, Sv 12 the number of buses in the fleet now is just about right. But the number of SDs is seriously disproportionate to the number of DDs it has considering the peak-hour demand. Many many years ago, Sv 12 only had 2 SD slots of 2721R & 2723K, and now look at the number of KUBs it has (7 in total). Well it's true that when they added in the KUBs to replace some of the DD duties years ago, it was meant to be that 1 DD = 2 KUBs. So theoretically the load for Sv 12 would be spread out over more buses during the Peak Hour stretch, something like what SMRT is trying to do with its train services these days.
But with the people working at Bugis & along the route growing, coupled with the schooling crowd, the KUBs for Sv 12 now can barely manage the load. Plus the rapidly increasing population in PSR, Tamp & Simei, it's making things worse. And that was a reason why Sv 12 quietly converted 8205A's WSD duty into a WDD duty done by 3131L last year. If the demand for DDs isn't there, what for convert a SD into a DD?
And honestly, spare capacity for DDs wouldn't hurt. If Sv 43 that kind of service with unstable loading can get that much DDs over the past year, I don't see why Sv 12 can't do with increased capacity of more DDs as well. And considering that Sv 12 is a route with a much longer runtime & passes by more of the city areas, I think it's high time they added more DDs as well. If they want to keep the KUBs, then add in more buses for Sv 12, that's logical.
And don't tell me too that what Sv 12 don't need more DDs because the demand at Katong area is pathetic. People don't go to Katong just to eat laksa these days yeah. There's offices around that area & many people who work at Parkway Parade that board Sv 12 instead as an alternative to getting back to the East instead of the SD-only Sv 15. -
Originally posted by lemon1974:
AMDEP side should be sv22 53 n maybe sv60
Sv 60 again uh? They just added one a few months back right?
I actually hope Sv 53's one is a normal fleet add & not a BSEP. The 66xx Citaros are there for a reason I guess? Plus if they dump a BSEP fleet add for Sv 53, it doesn't solve the congestion prob at CGA for Sv 53 every day after 7pm. Cause by that time, the BSEP bus would be on the expressway or reaching back Bishan alr?
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Originally posted by SBS 9631X:
Err. I wouldn't go all the way to say that you're wrong, but both services do need more fleet adds, if not BSEP ones.
Firstly, there's a reason why Sv 10 also has something called Sv 10e since years ago yeah. Sv 12 on the other hand managed that peak hour crowd daily for so many years without any shortworking trips, much less any FFw trips.
Secondly, Sv 12 the number of buses in the fleet now is just about right. But the number of SDs is seriously disproportionate to the number of DDs it has considering the peak-hour demand. Many many years ago, Sv 12 only had 2 SD slots of 2721R & 2723K, and now look at the number of KUBs it has (7 in total). Well it's true that when they added in the KUBs to replace some of the DD duties years ago, it was meant to be that 1 DD = 2 KUBs. So theoretically the load for Sv 12 would be spread out over more buses during the Peak Hour stretch, something like what SMRT is trying to do with its train services these days.
But with the people working at Bugis & along the route growing, coupled with the schooling crowd, the KUBs for Sv 12 now can barely manage the load. Plus the rapidly increasing population in PSR, Tamp & Simei, it's making things worse. And that was a reason why Sv 12 quietly converted 8205A's WSD duty into a WDD duty done by 3131L last year. If the demand for DDs isn't there, what for convert a SD into a DD?
And honestly, spare capacity for DDs wouldn't hurt. If Sv 43 that kind of service with unstable loading can get that much DDs over the past year, I don't see why Sv 12 can't do with increased capacity of more DDs as well. And considering that Sv 12 is a route with a much longer runtime & passes by more of the city areas, I think it's high time they added more DDs as well. If they want to keep the KUBs, then add in more buses for Sv 12, that's logical.
And don't tell me too that what Sv 12 don't need more DDs because the demand at Katong area is pathetic. People don't go to Katong just to eat laksa these days yeah. There's offices around that area & many people who work at Parkway Parade that board Sv 12 instead as an alternative to getting back to the East instead of the SD-only Sv 15.KUB is useless, cannot cope with many people. Don't understand why SBST bought so many in the first place.
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Originally posted by worldclasstransport:
KUB is useless, cannot cope with many people. Don't understand why SBST bought so many in the first place.
Beats the more pathetic standing space of Citaros in any case. Trade-offs I guess. Seats vs Standing space.
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Originally posted by worldclasstransport:
KUB is useless, cannot cope with many people. Don't understand why SBST bought so many in the first place.
Although I dun quite like the K230 but still when come to crush loading the KUBs along with the OCs do very well compared to full low floor SD like the Citaros or A22s..Only setback for the Scania is the power rating.Wah like that 354 got 5 buses leh
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Sv 10, 12, 354 at least
At the same time, Sv 193/ 240 trip reduction.
Sv 15 to meet QoS max headway limit allowed.
243 too..
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Originally posted by SBS 9631X:
Err. I wouldn't go all the way to say that you're wrong, but both services do need more fleet adds, if not BSEP ones.
Firstly, there's a reason why Sv 10 also has something called Sv 10e since years ago yeah. Sv 12 on the other hand managed that peak hour crowd daily for so many years without any shortworking trips, much less any FFw trips.
Secondly, Sv 12 the number of buses in the fleet now is just about right. But the number of SDs is seriously disproportionate to the number of DDs it has considering the peak-hour demand. Many many years ago, Sv 12 only had 2 SD slots of 2721R & 2723K, and now look at the number of KUBs it has (7 in total). Well it's true that when they added in the KUBs to replace some of the DD duties years ago, it was meant to be that 1 DD = 2 KUBs. So theoretically the load for Sv 12 would be spread out over more buses during the Peak Hour stretch, something like what SMRT is trying to do with its train services these days.
But with the people working at Bugis & along the route growing, coupled with the schooling crowd, the KUBs for Sv 12 now can barely manage the load. Plus the rapidly increasing population in PSR, Tamp & Simei, it's making things worse. And that was a reason why Sv 12 quietly converted 8205A's WSD duty into a WDD duty done by 3131L last year. If the demand for DDs isn't there, what for convert a SD into a DD?
And honestly, spare capacity for DDs wouldn't hurt. If Sv 43 that kind of service with unstable loading can get that much DDs over the past year, I don't see why Sv 12 can't do with increased capacity of more DDs as well. And considering that Sv 12 is a route with a much longer runtime & passes by more of the city areas, I think it's high time they added more DDs as well. If they want to keep the KUBs, then add in more buses for Sv 12, that's logical.
And don't tell me too that what Sv 12 don't need more DDs because the demand at Katong area is pathetic. People don't go to Katong just to eat laksa these days yeah. There's offices around that area & many people who work at Parkway Parade that board Sv 12 instead as an alternative to getting back to the East instead of the SD-only Sv 15.Thanks buddy for the detailed explanation. I would be wrong to say they don't need fleet add. I totally agree that many of the KUBs need to be replaced by DDs on svc 12. With svc 10, I am surprised because during morning / evening peak there is 10E wth DDs running to and from city. Ofcourse, both 10E and 10 DDs are fully seated with 70-90 pax during peak hours.
I feel services 21 (with almost 50% SD fleet need more DDs), 59 (definitely need 2-3 DDs add for this service), 62 (had capacity addition recently, but guess need 1-2 more SDs converted to DD slots), 69 (during Temasek operating days, loading is over +100), 70 (need 1-2 more SDs converted to DD slot), 74 (I won't say anything; lot has been already said), 87 (the BSEP Citaro addition should be converted into DD slot), 88 (Definitely need 1-2 more buses considering the load), 159A (much has been said about this already), 186 (need 1-2 more DDs during morning peak hours, can crossover to another service during evening peak), 268 (2 DDs would have been good to start with). What do you think?
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Originally posted by worldclasstransport:
KUB is useless, cannot cope with many people. Don't understand why SBST bought so many in the first place.
KUBs are better than the Citaros in ferrying the load. Citaro 4 seats are wasted that are in opposite direction to moving bus and ever anyone sits there. + lesser standing space. KUB can take 70 pax, Citaro after 60 pax difficult to enter. Ofcourse depends on how much people are ready to squeeze in.
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Woodlands Interchange's feeders are in serious need of BSEP additions, namely 900, 901 and 903, but especially 901, which only has a fleet of 3 buses, no split shift buses and which regularly leaves commuters stranded at the interchange, resigned to wait for the next bus.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Thanks buddy for the detailed explanation. I would be wrong to say they don't need fleet add. I totally agree that many of the KUBs need to be replaced by DDs on svc 12. With svc 10, I am surprised because during morning / evening peak there is 10E wth DDs running to and from city. Ofcourse, both 10E and 10 DDs are fully seated with 70-90 pax during peak hours.
I feel services 21 (with almost 50% SD fleet need more DDs), 59 (definitely need 2-3 DDs add for this service), 62 (had capacity addition recently, but guess need 1-2 more SDs converted to DD slots), 69 (during Temasek operating days, loading is over +100), 70 (need 1-2 more SDs converted to DD slot), 74 (I won't say anything; lot has been already said), 87 (the BSEP Citaro addition should be converted into DD slot), 88 (Definitely need 1-2 more buses considering the load), 159A (much has been said about this already), 186 (need 1-2 more DDs during morning peak hours, can crossover to another service during evening peak), 268 (2 DDs would have been good to start with). What do you think?
Alot of the services you mentioned you could do with more DDs. Like I said, having excess capacity wouldn't hurt in any case if the depots has enough SP DDs to deploy in the first place. It's like saving up for a future rainy day. And more importantly, services like 12, 21, 59, 70 etc already have more than 60% WAB in their fleet to satisfy the quota. So even if the starters add 1 or 2 more non-WAB DDs, the proportion of WABs in their fleet would most likely still remain above the min 60% required for the quota. So the starters actually have alot of play with in my opinion, both B9TLs & VO3xs / B10TLs that could be deployed from their SP fleet if they chose to. It's whether they choose to utilise the existing non-WAB SPs or put in the newer B9TLs.
I think Sv 268 has some height restriction along the way though or something with regards to using a 3-axle DD? Same case with Sv 359 actually. Sv 359 has a stretch of road that is too tight for a current 3-axle DD to turn, but Sv 359 did have 2-axle DDs last time many many many years back. There's a slight difference in that I think. So they resorted to adding BSEP for Sv 359 instead of upgrading to DDs (which was the case of mass DD upgrades for Sv 291 last year)
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
Woodlands Interchange's feeders are in serious need of BSEP additions, namely 900, 901 and 903, but especially 901, which only has a fleet of 3 buses, no split shift buses and which regularly leaves commuters stranded at the interchange, resigned to wait for the next bus.
901 has 2 split shift. 5 buses for AM 4 buses for PM-I think need 2 add buses. 900 got 1 split so there 5 buses on both AM and PM so need to BSEP. 903 got always got one split rigid cameo doing 1 trip on 903 before off svc wich i dun understand but overall need one BSEP from observation
911 case i dun it is needed coz there are so many x-overs in the morning and evening plus i always see it brunching around even during off peak
912- Still ok to me, evening and morning still ok to me.
913- AM got 2 x-over from 960 at 6.30am and 6.40am for 2 trips. Evening no x-over, Have to be considered for BSEP. -
Originally posted by TIB 585L:
901 has 2 split shift. 5 buses for AM 4 buses for PM-I think need 2 add buses. 900 got 1 split so there 5 buses on both AM and PM so need to BSEP. 903 got always got one split rigid cameo doing 1 trip on 903 before off svc wich i dun understand but overall need one BSEP from observation
911 case i dun it is needed coz there are so many x-overs in the morning and evening plus i always see it brunching around even during off peak
912- Still ok to me, evening and morning still ok to me.
913- AM got 2 x-over from 960 at 6.30am and 6.40am for 2 trips. Evening no x-over, Have to be considered for BSEP.901 has two split shifts? SGWiki states it has only 3 buses at all times exept for the Weekday morning crossovers.
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
901 has two split shifts? SGWiki states it has only 3 buses at all times exept for the Weekday morning crossovers.
Ok i counted the x-overs wich is not used as split. I always see 4 buses on 901 on PM peak. 1222C,1181L,1183G+1 Split cameo.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Ok i counted the x-overs wich is not used as split. I always see 4 buses on 901 on PM peak. 1222C,1181L,1183G+1 Split cameo.
i doubt there is a split shift for 901. the extra bus seen during peak hour should be an off schedule bus instead...
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
i doubt there is a split shift for 901. the extra bus seen during peak hour should be an off schedule bus instead...
Really? there always 4 bus during peak hour and it did multiple trips not one or two trips though on weekdays
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
901 has 2 split shift. 5 buses for AM 4 buses for PM-I think need 2 add buses. 900 got 1 split so there 5 buses on both AM and PM so need to BSEP. 903 got always got one split rigid cameo doing 1 trip on 903 before off svc wich i dun understand but overall need one BSEP from observation
911 case i dun it is needed coz there are so many x-overs in the morning and evening plus i always see it brunching around even during off peak
912- Still ok to me, evening and morning still ok to me.
913- AM got 2 x-over from 960 at 6.30am and 6.40am for 2 trips. Evening no x-over, Have to be considered for BSEP.913 does need the BSEP. Even with bendies, its still can't cope with massive no. of passengers nowdays ...
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Originally posted by TIB987K:
913 does need the BSEP. Even with bendies, its still can't cope with massive no. of passengers nowdays ...
I agree i always 2 bendy 913 jamming up the interchange during the evening
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Really? there always 4 bus during peak hour and it did multiple trips not one or two trips though on weekdays
including PM peak when 901 has no crossovers??