Bus 179A that underoperate

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 14:33

I'll say 179A lor... 2 - 4 mins freq become 8 - 12 mins by SLBP timekeepers... Power la... Ends up on some occasion 1x 179 ADD or KUB leave BNL fully loaded, bus never stop along the way one... By the time so many buses skipped bus stop, 1x ADD load of backlog on 179 along the way... Sometimes buses w/ 179A desto asked to operate as 179... Use newspaper to cover up the 'A' font.... Now I see they pull stunt, pull out a empty ADD from nowhere to start ops from 1st bus stop in the morning... I've did a check... ends up taking 199 is even faster than 179A into NTU... 199 only 20% loaded during the same period yet SLBP never say remove the 243 crossover because no ppl take... yet 179A dun want to operate... Power la... Most epic thing is during off peak suddenly 179 so many trips can be made... Peak hr so many ppl take dun want to dispatch bus, wait until bo lang come and dispatch bus as stipulated...

Jacky Woo

18 Sep 12, 14:42

179A goes to NTU isnt it.

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 14:44

179A dun want to operate, 179 become 179A.. In the evening prior to last week rarely 179A was in ops, most buses swapped to ops as 179.. End up ppl at South Spine had to wait for at least 15 - 20 mins for 1 rare 179A to appear... 179/ 179A is always underoperated.. but I dun see why SLBP underoperate 199... it also goes to NTU what.. How for 179/ 179A to meet the 85% BSEP QoS???

Jacky Woo

18 Sep 12, 14:45

are you studying at NTU?

service_238

18 Sep 12, 15:27

Bus ops is more complex than just operating 179 alone. Boon lay route group needs to cater for many other services like JIS. If you have read fully the QoS, you would have noticed one of the lines that is regarding the 10min headway during peak-on-peak hour. Use this to figure out how 179 operates.

You are basing on the assumption that it is they are operating at full operating capacity. i.e. all trips has to be fulfilled, all buses have drivers and no bus is missing for any reason, amongst others.

so what happens when bus operations are not operating at full operating capacity?

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 15:36

No one expects full capacity because there's no way a 2 mins freq can be imposed on 179A... But looking at the way how the buses are operated, it's really bad.. Because they can meet 2 mins freq bet 0930 - 1030.. FYI.. 179A's dispatch is by timekeeper's cue.. The bus would wait opp Sv 179's berth and wait for timekeeper's cue to dispatch... there's no schedule for 179A to talk of in reality...

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 17:46

In fact the 1 hr peak within peak timing is pretty easy for 179A... Because the peak load is bet 0740 - 0815 & 0840 - 0915... The in between period is when the 8 - 12 mins headways issue kicks in, while 179 still gets the 3 - 4 mins headways... Sometimes 2x or even 3x 179 has been dispatched before a 179A is dispatched... In fact, LTA's stance is 179A is the designated bus for those from Boon Lay, not 179... 179 is meant for those along the way...

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 17:50

In fact... 199's travelling time is even shorter than waiting and taking 179A... figure this out...

BusAnalayzer

18 Sep 12, 18:10

Originally posted by sbst275:

In fact…

199’s travelling time is even shorter than waiting and taking 179A…

figure this out…

179A is just a quicker alternative to go to NTU. If 179A doesn't show up at BNL, it is stupidity to wait for the bus if 179 is there. Just take 179. The total travel time by 179 to NTU is 20 minutes, and 179A is around 15 minutes.

Also it is more important to make sure 179 is dispatched at regular intervals, because there is a huge load of students who take the bus from Pioneer to NTU. So if SBST has to prioritize, it should do it for 179.

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:15

Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

179A is just a quicker alternative to go to NTU. If 179A doesn't show up at BNL, it is stupidity to wait for the bus if 179 is there. Just take 179. The total travel time by 179 to NTU is 20 minutes, and 179A is around 15 minutes.

Also it is more important to make sure 179 is dispatched at regular intervals, because there is a huge load of students who take the bus from Pioneer to NTU. So if SBST has to prioritize, it should do it for 179.

The problem is this, 179 is supposed to be for people along the way... Ended up I ever saw 1x ADD backlog along Pioneer Rd Nth bus stops as 2x 179 couldn't stop as they were filling up 179 to the brim at BNL.... Obviously you're trying to tell me any bus just take, never mind the needed pax can get to board or not esp on such a heavy load service. The load at Pioneer isn't big as what you think during the AM peak.. Unless you're telling me it's the shuttle bus load... Pioneer isn't meant for NTU to use, because of infrastructural issues... Anyway 179 is dispatched as per scheduled, it's 179A that's underoperated. And furthermore, SBS's planning has stated 4 mins headways... 4 mins means 4 mins, where got such thing tell u actual freq daily is 8 - 12 mins... If you want to know the intention n everything, ask LTA's VTL...

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:19

How come 199 then can be operated as usual even though the loading is > 50%?

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:21

Obviously someone dun even know the intention of 179A's implementation...

BusAnalayzer

18 Sep 12, 18:23

199 goes to different areas within NTU. It's frequency is around 05-06 mins, and has only 50% DD fleet. Compare 8 buses of 199 with around 25 full fleet DD of 179/179A.

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:24

Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

199 goes to different areas within NTU. It's frequency is around 05-06 mins, and has only 50% DD fleet. Compare 8 buses of 199 with around 25 of 179/179A.

Do you know that ends up 199 is way more frequent than 179A even though 179A plies the main acad complexes and 199 does only for North Spine? Obviously you're just copy and paste without understanding where the buses ply... anyway, 199's travelling time is faster than 179A.. that's a fact...

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:27

5 - 6 mins??? explain the 4 mins headway slot??? 199 has crossover buses from 243...

BusAnalayzer

18 Sep 12, 18:28

I know where 179A plies and where 199 does. Anyway, I don't want to argue with you. For improving scheduling of 179A, you want to disrupt scheduling of 199.

The fact is 179 is very important in the morning peak because of the load at Pioneer. Sometimes 2 back to back DDs are needed to clear it.

Please go to Pioneer and watch the loading for yourself. Ofcourse, I do agree that the bus comes 50-60 pax already in it when it reaches Pioneer. I have calculated pax entering each bus of 179 at Pioneer. At least 40-50 pax everytime.

There must be a good reason why SBST plies 179 more than 179A. It is not stupid. If you look at Boon Lay - 241, 243, JIS services are all managed with good frequency at Boon Lay.

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:34

Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

I know where 179A plies and where 199 does. Anyway, I don't want to argue with you. For improving scheduling of 179A, you want to disrupt scheduling of 199.

The fact is 179 is very important in the morning peak because of the load at Pioneer. Sometimes 2 back to back DDs are needed to clear it.

Please go to Pioneer and watch the loading for yourself. Ofcourse, I do agree that the bus comes 50-60 pax already in it when it reaches Pioneer. I have calculated pax entering each bus of 179 at Pioneer. At least 40-50 pax everytime.

There must be a good reason why SBST plies 179 more than 179A. It is not stupid. If you look at Boon Lay - 241, 243, JIS services are all managed with good frequency at Boon Lay.

I think you dun get it... The problem is 179A underoperating buses even though there's no issue with 179... The 199's comparison is the actual travelling time... Let me say again... The AM peak load at Boon Lay is much heavier than Pioneer during the peak within peak belt. Go inside BNL and take a look. Furthermore, LTA has alrdy told me like it or not, the priority external boarding pt would be Boon Lay... 2 bus back to back??? Did you see 179A's queue during the peak within peak? Obviously not... There's also backlog... So what are you trying to prove? Anyway, check the e-guide of 179A's scheduled headways... 2 - 4 mins, 179 is 3 - 6 mins. Furthermore, if I tell you bus 506 instead of 20 mins headways, it becomes 30 mins daily w/o any traffic jam... is it acceptable? Same goes to 179A's stiuplated freq... Guess you're the one twisting everything... say because of demand bla bla bla, 179A is allowed to underoperate from the stipulated freq... If LTA reads this, I dunno what's next..

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:35

You tell ppl 4 mins headways and get ground staff decide to tell you 8 mins per bus is the one stipulated... So who's right, who's wrong? I think LTA would know, since they've a copy of 179 & 179A's timetable in reality...

sbst275

18 Sep 12, 18:36

and please do not quote SBS... because when I sent an email to SBST over 179A's evening ops issue, the very next day 179A was operated w/ downroutes etc... It's the ops people that do not want to follow the rules...

chickenlittle2

19 Sep 12, 00:41

eh, talking about service 179, I do not understand why DD is needed for this service during weekends (Esp afternoon & night, freq capped at 6-8mins somemore). Poor ppl taking 181 and 182 are squeezing in the SD fleet.

sbst275

19 Sep 12, 07:40

Originally posted by chickenlittle2:

eh, talking about service 179, I do not understand why DD is needed for this service during weekends (Esp afternoon & night, freq capped at 6-8mins somemore). Poor ppl taking 181 and 182 are squeezing in the SD fleet.

The Sat evening time when library closes and on Sunday when the kids going back to hall? A no of KUBs would be better though... But they normally dispatch KUB for weekdays...

SBS 6078 M

21 Sep 12, 18:45

Fail 179A, no wonder....

sbst275

26 Sep 12, 19:13

Wow... 179A buses thrown to 241 during PM peak... 241 buses flooding up the road... Mostly emty trips while ppl had to wait 30 mins for 5 179 to pass by before getting a boarding chance... 30 mins headways for 179A also... Didn't know 179A bus can anyhow throw to 241 during PM peak one... Oh ya.. Dun need to say how come ppl know.. cos the WEG B9TL all gone missing on 179 this afternoon... this morning so many WEG B9TL on 179...

service_238

26 Sep 12, 20:40

Originally posted by sbst275:

Wow…

179A buses thrown to 241 during PM peak… 241 buses flooding up the road… Mostly emty trips while ppl had to wait 30 mins for 5 179 to pass by before getting a boarding chance…

30 mins headways for 179A also…

Didn’t know 179A bus can anyhow throw to 241 during PM peak one…

Oh ya.. Dun need to say how come ppl know.. cos the WEG B9TL all gone missing on 179 this afternoon… this morning so many WEG B9TL on 179…

they are scheduled crossovers. the buses were merely running on schedule.

You want David Lim to complain ah?

sbst275

26 Sep 12, 20:42

Eh...y ou want to know that all the 6 over WEG B9TL and 1 Citaro on 179 today all gone MIA during PM peak... Somemore 241's evening peak headways turned out to be 2 mins per bus... instead of scheduled 4 mins... Somemore got 1 S179 slot ended up spotted w/ 241 SD front desto wo... Obviously 238 never see how they operate 179 & 179A... lol...