COI report: Paragraph 558
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Why govt want to lessen more cars since it was part of their profitable revenue?At most they reduce the COE quotas and increase price which theyve been doin now.Although newer reg car is less there's still jam everywhere and u know why?Govt target 6.5m do called Singaporean in 5 years time since 2010 and majority of these aliens are expatriate who are high paid.Seriously I've known a few of them from China HK Taiwan India all driving 1800cc car minimum and the way they drive only God know.
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Arbo why our ST article abt Taipei's zebra crossing got their attention. Lol
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
I still believe these people see bigger pictures and won't make bans over this kind of trival matters.
These kind of things are common everyday. So long it is over they won't care so much yeah? That is SG style. Complaining so much, When it's over they will forget things like kids.
Yeah, they are looking into bigger picture into the future for more efficient bus services and that's why they are stopping the procurement of bendy buses in future to in favor of more 12m buses.You are still in your own world of fantasy instead and that's why you still don't see their intentions to improve such problems in future. If LTA thinks like you this way, I think bus services won't have improved so greatly now as compared to 5 years back. Your kind of bo chap attitude really irrelevant in providing improvements.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Yeah, they are looking into bigger picture into the future for more efficient bus services and that's why they are stopping the procurement of bendy buses in future to in favor of more 12m buses.You are still in your own world of fantasy instead and that's why you still don't see their intentions to improve such problems in future. If LTA thinks like you this way, I think bus services won't have improved so greatly now as compared to 5 years back. Your kind of bo chap attitude really irrelevant in providing improvements.
I don't think they would, and never would. I still don't find a need to have them out of our streets. Bus services improved because of proper planning and scheduling and not because of bendies. And no, I don't think it's because of my nonchalant attitude towards this, But they are constantly changing at which bus should they deploy within that timeframe.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
I don't think they would, and never would. I still don't find a need to have them out of our streets. Bus services improved because of proper planning and scheduling and not because of bendies. And no, I don't think it's because of my nonchalant attitude towards this, But they are constantly changing at which bus should they deploy within that timeframe.
That is what you think because that is what you want.But this is not what LTA wants, since they have identified the problem and they want to solve the problem, for the future, in line with the increasing population and limited land space and more bus services in future. They want to solve problems, not like you to add more problems or ignore the problems. If the possibility of no bendies can improve bus system greatly, no harm trying out.
Type of buses used also determine the results of proper planning and scheduling of bus services to improve them. Too much queues and jams in bus interchanges and bus stops creates more inefficiencies for better bus services and bendy buses are the main culprits of such problems.
You said they are constantly changing what kind of buses they use and this is exactly what they are doing. This is not 1996 anymore but 2012. They have to change the kind of buses used based on limited land space, increasing number of buses and efficiencies of the bus system. That's why they pharsed out midi buses because they are not efficient anymore to carry heavier loadings. Same goes to bendy buses, since they are not as efficient as 12m buses.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Why govt want to lessen more cars since it was part of their profitable revenue?At most they reduce the COE quotas and increase price which theyve been doin now.Although newer reg car is less there's still jam everywhere and u know why?Govt target 6.5m do called Singaporean in 5 years time since 2010 and majority of these aliens are expatriate who are high paid.Seriously I've known a few of them from China HK Taiwan India all driving 1800cc car minimum and the way they drive only God know.
Lessen??? You will see the number of unhappy Singaporeans against the govt rising again...
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
That is what you think because that is what you want.But this is not what LTA wants, since they have identified the problem and they want to solve the problem, for the future, in line with the increasing population and limited land space and more bus services in future. They want to solve problems, not like you to add more problems or ignore the problems. If the possibility of no bendies can improve bus system greatly, no harm trying out.
Type of buses used also determine the results of proper planning and scheduling of bus services to improve them. Too much queues and jams in bus interchanges and bus stops creates more inefficiencies for better bus services and bendy buses are the main culprits of such problems.
You said they are constantly changing what kind of buses they use and this is exactly what they are doing. This is not 1996 anymore but 2012. They have to change the kind of buses used based on limited land space, increasing number of buses and efficiencies of the bus system. That's why they pharsed out midi buses because they are not efficient anymore to carry heavier loadings. Same goes to bendy buses, since they are not as efficient as 12m buses.
Lessen??? You will see the number of unhappy Singaporeans against the govt rising again...In my opinion, Even with no bendies it doesn't make a difference. Jams will still happen, and people will still complain. They want solve problems, yes, and no, I'm not creating problems but I still maintain my stand that these buses doesn't pose enough hazard to deserve the boot out of our roads. Even though it might be a bit of fuss, but it isn't hazardous enough to be kicked out of our roads. I firmly believe our LTA is fair and square. So long it doesn't cause hazard to us as road users, They will be flexible and allow it on our roads. Having bendies or not, It doesn't make a difference. Jam-prone areas are simply unavoidable and it do happen in our everyday life.
I still firmly believe these bendies are faultless. And no bus interchanges are queue-less and non-jam prone. These things do happen everyday, It doesn't matter whose fault it belongs to, No-one can expect the interchanges to be jam-free during peak hours.
And finally, yes, But what I meant was 'they will remove a bendy for rigid' if they don't feel the demand there. And, Whether or not we will see bendies still remains to be seen.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
In my opinion, Even with no bendies it doesn't make a difference. Jams will still happen, and people will still complain. They want solve problems, yes, and no, I'm not creating problems but I still maintain my stand that these buses doesn't pose enough hazard to deserve the boot out of our roads. Even though it might be a bit of fuss, but it isn't hazardous enough to be kicked out of our roads. I firmly believe our LTA is fair and square. So long it doesn't cause hazard to us as road users, They will be flexible and allow it on our roads. Having bendies or not, It doesn't make a difference. Jam-prone areas are simply unavoidable and it do happen in our everyday life.
I still firmly believe these bendies are faultless. And no bus interchanges are queue-less and non-jam prone. These things do happen everyday, It doesn't matter whose fault it belongs to, No-one can expect the interchanges to be jam-free during peak hours.
And finally, yes, But what I meant was 'they will remove a bendy for rigid' if they don't feel the demand there. And, Whether or not we will see bendies still remains to be seen.
You still don't see the difference. As I have to say again, what you believe isn't what LTA wants.
Just take a comparison between a busy bus interchanges like Boon Lay and Woodlands. Buses in Boon Lay bus interchange can move in and out freely without any jams or long buses blocking the ways and exits of other buses behind. However just look at buses in Woodlands interchange, long bus queues created because bendy buses takes up to much space in the berth, causing other buses to stuck inside the berth just because the trailer part blocks the path of the exiting bus. And thus BCs behind have to honk and honk and some overtake dangerously just to keep clear of these buses. And according to LTA, bendy buses have the highest accident rates as compared to SDs and DDs.
Yes, jams in bus interchanges are inevitable in bus interchanges and bus stops. Thus the problem of bus jams and queues can be greatly reduced if there are no long bendy buses blocking the way, hogging the space and cause even longer queues and jams behind. If bendies can be removed to reduce jams greatly, it will certainly make bus scheduling much easier and efficient and reduce jams and queues greatly, even they can't be eliminated totally. And bus interchanges are getting smaller and more buses to be added in future, so it is simply impractical to waste the spaces to park these bendies instead where 12m buses can do the same job hogging lesser spaces.
Your theory doesn't make the problem improves but continues to make it worse. It is like when a pipe burstes with a hole, you just plug it with a tape, instead of welding or changing a new pipe.
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Ok Lor like that ask Mr Lui $$$ plan for more bigger underground BI starting from Yishun then spread to Sembawang and Bt Panjang.Or underground bus depot
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
You still don't see the difference. As I have to say again, what you believe isn't what LTA wants.
Just take a comparison between a busy bus interchanges like Boon Lay and Woodlands. Buses in Boon Lay bus interchange can move in and out freely without any jams or long buses blocking the ways and exits of other buses behind. However just look at buses in Woodlands interchange, long bus queues created because bendy buses takes up to much space in the berth, causing other buses to stuck inside the berth just because the trailer part blocks the path of the exiting bus. And thus BCs behind have to honk and honk and some overtake dangerously just to keep clear of these buses. And according to LTA, bendy buses have the highest accident rates as compared to SDs and DDs.
Yes, jams in bus interchanges are inevitable in bus interchanges and bus stops. Thus the problem of bus jams and queues can be greatly reduced if there are no long bendy buses blocking the way, hogging the space and cause even longer queues and jams behind. If bendies can be removed to reduce jams greatly, it will certainly make bus scheduling much easier and efficient and reduce jams and queues greatly, even they can't be eliminated totally. And bus interchanges are getting smaller and more buses to be added in future, so it is simply impractical to waste the spaces to park these bendies instead where 12m buses can do the same job hogging lesser spaces.
Your theory doesn't make the problem improves but continues to make it worse. It is like when a pipe burstes with a hole, you just plug it with a tape, instead of welding or changing a new pipe.
I do. But problems like this are a part of our daily life which we can only try our best.
For Woodlands case, I believe I saw that only on peak hours, Other than the peak hours, The bendies don't really do much damage for most of the periods it doesn't help if bendies are removed, Things still remain the same if the area is jam-prone and it is a Peak period. Removing them is clearly not an issue to begin with. We are just avoiding the problem itself, not tackling it.
I strongly maintain that this is a problem that isn't serious enough for bendies to get the boot. If it is indeed very road-hazardous, Then yes.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
I do. But problems like this are a part of our daily life which we can only try our best.
For Woodlands case, I believe I saw that only on peak hours, Other than the peak hours, The bendies don't really do much damage for most of the periods it doesn't help if bendies are removed, Things still remain the same if the area is jam-prone and it is a Peak period. Removing them is clearly not an issue to begin with. We are just avoiding the problem itself, not tackling it.
I strongly maintain that this is a problem that isn't serious enough for bendies to get the boot. If it is indeed very road-hazardous, Then yes.
You have already said that the problem exist in peak hours and thus LTA's purpose is to improve the efficiency of the bus system during peak hours. Removing bendies will really improve the jam and queue conditions during peak hours and that is one of the goals that LTA needs to do for the future to improve the bus services efficiency.And it is pointless to use bendies during off peak hours when most of them are half empty and yet takes up so much space in interchanges, depots and bus stops when these spaces can be used more efficiently for other uses like parking more buses for more services instead. Removing them off the roads relieves the jams and queues problems and solve the problem for the future in the long run.
Your insistence of having bendies doesn't solve much problems, ut more like avoiding the problem and creating more problems. LTA is to solve the problems as the bus system as a whole, not to solve the problems for bendy buses. And if they are not suitable in terms of space and operational efficiency, they will have to go sooner or later.
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I'll give 2 words whether ppl like it or not, kpkb or not..
standardisation of bus fleet islandwide and admitting what's the constraint we face...
simple as that and w/ COI alrdy made some mentioning of the bendies... It's likely clear whether like it or not, continue to debate or not, the coffin is more or less alrdy for the bendy buses in Singapore...
and to make a further dent to Tibs's boast of bendy buses, London has removed all the bendies...
While the double decks may have their problems, it's much lesser compared to the bendies during the peak hours. In fact it's clear Tibs didn't plan much onto the peak hours issue like EDS on wrong side (how to id the bus no during peak hrs?), bendies at main road corridor...
So my take is, what Tibs said though had it flaws alrdy slowly seenable as the population grew, ppl still buy the argument...
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currently there are about 300 bendies out of combined fleet size of about 4000 SBS and SMRT buses
bendies will still continue to serve out the rest of its lifespan and retire gracefully...LTA won't straightaway call for them to be banned and deregistered right..?
it's still good news to CCK/BP/WDLS/SEM/YIS residents...there will see a facelift soon as DDs will replace bendies
time for SMRTB to start procuring DDs
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
And it is pointless to use bendies during off peak hours when most of them are half empty and yet takes up so much space in interchanges, depots and bus stops when these spaces can be used more efficiently for other uses like parking more buses for more services instead. Removing them off the roads relieves the jams and queues problems and solve the problem for the future in the long run.
Your insistence of having bendies doesn't solve much problems, ut more like avoiding the problem and creating more problems. LTA is to solve the problems as the bus system as a whole, not to solve the problems for bendy buses. And if they are not suitable in terms of space and operational efficiency, they will have to go sooner or later.
I still believe bendies should be deployed as full days if the demand is still there, Like 67,169,854,960,962 etc, They have full day bendies running around because the demand is there. Removing them would not work as I firmly believe not all like 962 are short distanced. Having bendies would be good over DDs which some roads does not fit. As for 67,854 and 960 they are unavoidable because these areas gets hot up during peak and it can't be helped. On other situations they are doing fine and won't cause any trouble.
No, I don't think I'm running away from it, But I'd rather face it than to have it removed from our roads. Yes they will go, I believe these bendies, in one way or another do help with the loads.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
I'll give 2 words whether ppl like it or not, kpkb or not..
standardisation of bus fleet islandwide and admitting what's the constraint we face...
simple as that and w/ COI alrdy made some mentioning of the bendies... It's likely clear whether like it or not, continue to debate or not, the coffin is more or less alrdy for the bendy buses in Singapore...
and to make a further dent to Tibs's boast of bendy buses, London has removed all the bendies...
While the double decks may have their problems, it's much lesser compared to the bendies during the peak hours. In fact it's clear Tibs didn't plan much onto the peak hours issue like EDS on wrong side (how to id the bus no during peak hrs?), bendies at main road corridor...
So my take is, what Tibs said though had it flaws alrdy slowly seenable as the population grew, ppl still buy the argument...
If standardize then SBS and SMRT must buy new Citaros and Citaro Gs because use same parts easy to replace!!! SMRT operating so many Mercedes so get more Mercedes is common sense!!!
Should not get Dennis bus u see SBS and SMRT Dennis bus so lousy maintain cannot find spare part!!! SMRT want early retire Lances u still want to buy Enviros u crazy or what!!! Scania ELBO also some early retire and worse after refurbish still vibrate and jerk a lot!!!!!
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Ok Lor like that ask Mr Lui $$$ plan for more bigger underground BI starting from Yishun then spread to Sembawang and Bt Panjang.Or underground bus depot
Good idea should build underground like Kim chuan train depot and no need worry about security only few entrances!!!
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Guys, I know it's like we want to reply back on the issue..
But I guess we've to move ahead alrdy, esp since even the COI has mentioned abt the bendy buses... They aren't bus fans to begin with... They look at the planning and technical side of the issue that's all.
No pt talking to people who are likely not going to be able to impose the constraints onto themselves or people who starts either bending the rules or dunno how to follow the rules (South Buona Vista case where LTA has placed a signboard banning 3 axle or more vehicles from entering).
Just to say, for those interested in planning, dun just micro the things up, look at the broader perspective. The world dun just evolve around the bus stops w/ more alighting cos where these ppl board the bus in e first place?
Think before u post and please verify your source before you post. Because I dun think the trolls want to get themselves into newspaper over plargarising + mis-represent the photos etc...
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We all know how to return favour to ppl...
228, Admit it... All because Scania OmniCity killed the Citaro G, you start chanting creepy Scania buses... You hate Scania TTM!!!
I return the favour now...
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Originally posted by sbst275:
We all know how to return favour to ppl...
228, Admit it... All because Scania OmniCity killed the Citaro G, you start chanting creepy Scania buses... You hate Scania TTM!!!
I return the favour now...
Scania is creepy because it jerks and vibrates very uncomfortable and dangerous to old lady, a lot of accidents n bad behavior, super loud radiator and fugly interior with failair eds!!! U look at the rubbish K230UB!!! BIS also agree!!!!
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Looking at the pages of the long discussions, I have to agree that bendy buses have to go soon to make way for a better public bus system in Singapore in future. Although I don't hate these buses, but the problems of everyday operations caused by these buses truthfully reflects on what some of the members have mentioned. If LTA stops the use of bendy buses in future, it certainly will help to solve many problems caused by bendy buses which makes the job easier for LTA to plan and schedule current and more new bus services in future. Thus removing bendies for the long run will be better option if LTA wants to improve bus services for the years to come.
Anyway, what's the point of debating pages and pages of what kind of buses SMRT should use in future? SMRTB should just wind up and concentrate fully on rail business. The bus operations should be given to SBST or another bus operator like KMB and cab operations to Transcab. And SMRT Corp should be delisted from SGX until they can improve their rail operations in a proper manner and bring in profits. The recent punishment for SMRT is too light for such continuous major disruptions for the MRT. They should heavily penalise the company due to its negligence over its maintainance and upgrading of its rail fleets and infrastructures all the years, by giving all free rides for a week, beacuse fines alone are practically useless.
Buy double deckers, so what? Buy bendy buses, so what? They can't even give a basic proper maintainance of their bus fleets, which are dirty, run down and poor conditions as a whole. Bus services standards are poor, long and irregular frequencies, overcrowded buses, reckless drivings, etc. Given whatever kind of buses to this company, they just screw up everything. They hardly improve, despite so many years and can't be bother to till now. This kind of company should have gone long ago, as they are wasting commuters' and taxpayers' monies. The earlier they close down, the better for the commuters to have other choices of other better bus companies out there.
Wastage of bandwith to discuss such things here, especially about SMRT.
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Should just let Woodlands Transport run and combined with Temasek and renamed LionBusLimited.NW/EW/CCL and NEL let SBST run while DTL/ERL give to LBL.I do agree with many new citizens and cars here bendy buses are not practical anymore.Best is DDs with 3 doors.
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Another hint,Why SMRT didn't wanna buy or even trial a WAB bendy although there are offers from both MAN & MB?By right they should have at least quarter to meet WAB standards but chose to refurbish their old bendies.These are hint themselves are not interested in bendies too due to space problem at their depot.My SMRT friend was keen in trial a few DDs but still waiting for approval from SMRT Ah Kong cause Ah Kong want to be diff from SBST.I even suggest him the 3 door Lion City Dd but unfortunately it's not available for RHD.Who knows they be getting 2 axles DDs in future??
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Even if bendies were to be eliminated, it will be slowly removed in a gradual, cautious and progressive basis on services plying CBD
Just like how DDs was slowly introduced on Sv 43, 45, 54, 90, 109,163,
Actually what for you all arguing...? the fact that no new bendies has been purchased and introduced since 2000 is already a clear message to everyone that bendies are out of favour already...
The existing fleet of 300 bendies will however continue to serve out the rest of their lifespan until they retire or else it will be a waste
Following are SMRT services with bendies and proportion of them out of total fleet size
67 - (16/34)
106 - (13/23)
167 – (1/19)
172 - (4/14)
176 - (12/22)
180 - (11/11)
184 - (12/15)
187 - (5/25)
188 - (12/19)
189 - (4/14)
190 - (27/39)
300/302 - almost full fleet bendies
700 - (2/15)
800/804/806/811/812 – almost full fleet bendies
851 - (7/27) –
854 - (14/23)
856 - (13/16)
857 - (3/15)
859 - (2/9)
900/901/902/903/911/912/913 - almost full fleet bendies
960 - (15/21)
962 - (6/9)
963 - (9/22)
964 - (6/7)
969 - (9/20)
980 - (2/14)
Hope SMRTB explore DDs and if possible, bring back DD Non aircon buses like VO2X..cos there are many passengers like us who still prefer non aircon hahaha
no need to buy so many expensive aircon buses
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Another hint,Why SMRT didn't wanna buy or even trial a WAB bendy although there are offers from both MAN & MB?By right they should have at least quarter to meet WAB standards but chose to refurbish their old bendies.These are hint themselves are not interested in bendies too due to space problem at their depot.My SMRT friend was keen in trial a few DDs but still waiting for approval from SMRT Ah Kong cause Ah Kong want to be diff from SBST.I even suggest him the 3 door Lion City Dd but unfortunately it's not available for RHD.Who knows they be getting 2 axles DDs in future??
Now now....why did you bother to bring that up to these people.....
As for SMRT giving up its bus business, that is something that should be done.
Not the least because control over buses AND rail clearly has led to serious conflicts of interest.
Think left pocket, right pocket.
Worst of all, if competition means being "different" to help consumer loyalty, I would rather we just have a single company.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
As for SMRT giving up its bus business, that is something that should be done.
If so, SBS Transit should give up its NEL rail also?
DTL should be awarded to SMRT instead of SBST also?
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more Non aircon buses pls
Like it or not, healthy senior folks believe that it's healthier to inhale natural air instead of articifial air (aircon)
All those perfumes/deodorants in an enclosed and congested aircon environment is actually bad for health in the long run....if younger generations believe it....but i doubt so