COI report: Paragraph 558
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Originally posted by TIB1218R:
Reminds me of the Merdeka Bridge incident, Leyland Atlantean on 196..
That one was suay..especially back then 16 had diff routing at night
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Originally posted by SMB228X:
U see damage only upper deck? Bendy would clear tree branch with room to spare!!
So you didn't know what happened???This one is nothing to do w/ room to spare...
The road was tilted and that tree branch had not been pruned for eons... In fact after that incident, NParks went to prune all the trees along Bt Timah & Dunearn at once...
In fact, nice try... because you forgot even w/o DD, you still have 20ft or 40ft TEU trailers around or those carrying the exacvactors... Act smart...
next...
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Originally posted by SMB228X:
DD acceleration weak, cannot move fast!!! Go a bit too fast see what happen!!
Accleration weak also no use...Need me say you've no idea of driving... On the Scania accident at HMV bus stop... Keep your golden mouth shut if you dunno how to drive.. make yourself a joke..
The KMB accident was poor speed control, same as the Scania accident at HMV..
So if you want bus that can pick up fast, dun try in SG or HK... In case later flip or head tail on collision as you cannot brake in time...
In fact some 3 weeks ago, almost got into an accident at Bt Timah onboard 171.. Why? SL want to chiong, chiong at wrong place...
He overtook to middle lane near Eng Neo junction, floor on accelerator even though there was an congestion.. next thing 1 van turned out and suay suay was the acceleration surge happened kicked in...
Next thing heavy brake occur, near collison... If got m'bike behind, I can't imagine what's going to happen...
If ppl ask for statement, I say is the MAN bus and SL at fault.. no proper speed control at congested road... Chiong for what?
Dunno how to drive = think speeding and accleration is important..
Know how to drive = priority of keeping everyone safe, keep proper lookout for hazard slow down if necessary...
That's why I say, 228 should be dragged to drive a bus w/o passengers... and see can speed control or not
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Originally posted by TIB1218R:
I passed by Northpoint bus stop everyday and there's not much jams. Even if have, it is caused by private buses, cars or the full loading of Service 969. Bendies unloads very fast at that stop, as there's no one boards from there...
SBS1000U: Confirm you live at SBST area right ???
But at 270 how? so many boarding..Thing end of the day is clear, the argument of fast clearance would be countered by the equal time to board... say for 969 at Tampines..
our BI incl YIS or WRI weren't even designed for bendies, the behind sawtooth berth buses may have to wait for 969 at Tampines to move off bef everyone can move off...
Same goes to 858 if it uses bendies at the PTB...
Macro the efficiency issues up, you'll realise all the benefits are pretty micro to alighting bus stops...
Things has micro and macro pov.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
So have to wait till someone dies then rectify the problem is it???
Not just other car users, but other BCs driving buses find them a nuisance as well. And they road hog too much, imagine a emergency vehicle is in the hurry, how long has it have to wait for the bendy bus to cut lane before it can move forward??? If ambulance, I think the casualty will have to wait long (or can wait) before reaching the hospital.
To those who want bendies like mad:
- Please think. Our roads, infrastructures, density living cannot support such long buses in the long run. Yes, each kind of buses, SDs, DDs and bendies will have their short comings. But we must understand that our land and infrastructures are limited and the population is still growing. We have to choose the better options to solve the problem, not choosing something that gives much more problems.
So how many more are you going to catch? 1 vs thousand ? And in this society, we have to bear with everything, Do we? It's part of our life and it can't be brushed away 'because it doesn't fit'. This itself is not a valid excuse.
These kind of stuff happens in society all around the world. People move in, people move out (of SG) to other places. SG is no exception. Answers like 'It doesn't fit our infrastructure' doesn't work anymore. Our ministers are trying ways for different kinds of vehicles/for all (people) to fit in, And all I can hear is complaining, whining and not enough. It's their responsibility to ensure we can all fit in.
It is up to you how to fit in to our structure, not them.
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Is LTA totally not accountable for the fiasco?
Or let me phrase it another way, clearer, is there any thing found that LTA is to be blamed for?
Nothing?
Who owns the Claws and Rails?
Why I am happy that SMRT is to be blamed, the real question is , is LTA totally not accountable, responsible?
But I think LTA being gov-related is whiter than white. So, by this assumption, LTA must be totally not to blamed , not even 0.00001%.
We are singaporeans.
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What abt self diligence?
You run the day to day ops, you've to ensure it's up to standard and not really wait till to the pt LTA everyday come down to inspect... Then ppl also think something is wrong...
If it has to be whiter than white, everyone has to play a part... This is not politics.
No doubt LTA should have been more pro-active as a regulator, that's for sure. But most of the part has to come onto day to day ops manning.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
So how many more are you going to catch? 1 vs thousand ? And in this society, we have to bear with everything, Do we? It's part of our life and it can't be brushed away 'because it doesn't fit'. This itself is not a valid excuse.
These kind of stuff happens in society all around the world. People move in, people move out (of SG) to other places. SG is no exception. Answers like 'It doesn't fit our infrastructure' doesn't work anymore. Our ministers are trying ways for different kinds of vehicles/for all (people) to fit in, And all I can hear is complaining, whining and not enough. It's their responsibility to ensure we can all fit in.
It is up to you how to fit in to our structure, not them.
live w/ the bendies siam bus stop at Pending as I mentioned? Then I think you've better tell yourself to live w/ that first before telling others...
SBST tried w/ the bendies and decided they've to go after 10 years... That's before 15 yrs (considered of back then)...
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
So how many more are you going to catch? 1 vs thousand ? And in this society, we have to bear with everything, Do we? It's part of our life and it can't be brushed away 'because it doesn't fit'. This itself is not a valid excuse.
These kind of stuff happens in society all around the world. People move in, people move out (of SG) to other places. SG is no exception. Answers like 'It doesn't fit our infrastructure' doesn't work anymore. Our ministers are trying ways for different kinds of vehicles/for all (people) to fit in, And all I can hear is complaining, whining and not enough. It's their responsibility to ensure we can all fit in.
It is up to you how to fit in to our structure, not them.
You seems to be running away from the problem and the fact that bendies don't fit ur roads. Now the ministers have identified that long buses like bendy buses are deemed not suitable for our land scare space and thus identified this problem in their reports.LTA have also make this point clear that 12m buses are the way to go in future based on the designs of new bus interchanges and bus stops and not encouraging more long queues to defeat the efficiency of bus services if they have to add more buses on the roads in the next few years.
Thus if you can't accept the fact that bendy buses are not suitable here, then don't hinder the authorities in their way to provide better and more efficient bus services by using only 12m buses in future. They had already recognised the problem, accepted the fact, and choose a better option of all 12m buses and move on to the future. But you don't.
Originally posted by SMB228X:DD acceleration weak, cannot move fast!!! Go a bit too fast see what happen!!
Wah, so fast want to show pictures huh...
Let me show you some videos how dangerous/problematic bendy buses are.
Bendy bus out of control in a tunnel :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G283c3DAC3c
One bus becomes 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwd7HZgz8-w
The trouble with bendy buses... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPO6024YKOU
See how much time wasted.
And burning Citaro Gs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajGZv6KBixo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Zf1R2EwRY&feature=related
And not to mention, the number of burned O405Gs for SMRT buses.
In fact, LTA states that bendy buses has the highest accident rates as compared to SDs and DDs.
Originally posted by TIB1218R:YES!
I don't find it is funny... Would you like to be the first one to sacrifice instead???Originally posted by TIB1218R:I passed by Northpoint bus stop everyday and there's not much jams. Even if have, it is caused by private buses, cars or the full loading of Service 969. Bendies unloads very fast at that stop, as there's no one boards from there...
SBS1000U: Confirm you live at SBST area right ???No, you are wrong. Live in SMRT place and have to suffer under the problems of bendy buses everyday. Go and observe how bad the situation is every morning.
Originally posted by carbikebus:@SBS1000 do you think our roads are feasible to use the 13.7m MAN Lion City DDs?
Don't think MAN has RHD MAN Lion City DDs. But SMRT can try those MAN 12m DD coach chassis, and can ask Gemilang to body them into double deckers like SBS7888K. Else SMRT can also try the Scania K310UD. -
Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
You seems to be running away from the problem and the fact that bendies don't fit ur roads. Now the ministers have identified that long buses like bendy buses are deemed not suitable for our land scare space and thus identified this problem in their reports.LTA have also make this point clear that 12m buses are the way to go in future based on the designs of new bus interchanges and bus stops and not encouraging more long queues to defeat the efficiency of bus services if they have to add more buses on the roads in the next few years.
Thus if you can't accept the fact that bendy buses are not suitable here, then don't hinder the authorities in their way to provide better and more efficient bus services by using only 12m buses in future. They had already recognised the problem, accepted the fact, and choose a better option of all 12m buses and move on to the future. But you don't.
Wah, so fast want to show pictures huh...
Let me show you some videos how dangerous/problematic bendy buses are.
Bendy bus out of control in a tunnel :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G283c3DAC3c
One bus becomes 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwd7HZgz8-w
The trouble with bendy buses... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPO6024YKOU
See how much time wasted.
And burning Citaro Gs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajGZv6KBixo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Zf1R2EwRY&feature=related
And not to mention, the number of burned O405s for SMRT buses.
In fact, LTA states that bendy buses has the highest accident rates as compared to SDs and DDs.
I don't find it is funny... Would you like to be the first one to sacrifice instead???No, you are wrong. Live in SMRT place and have to suffer under the problems of bendy buses everyday. Go and observe how bad the situation is every morning.
Don't think MAN has RHD MAN Lion City DDs. But SMRT can try those MAN 12m DD coach chassis, and can ask Gemilang to body them into double deckers like SBS7888K. Else SMRT can also try the Scania K310UD.No, I'm not (running away from the facts), But you failed to realize this kind of situations are the same, with or without bendies. Find the reports for me, And as usual no proof no talk.
Ok, fine, report then(about LTA saying 12M buses)? One thing I far as I am concerned, No evidence no talk, or a PR as proof.
Let them decide for themselves, We don't need 'fortune tellers' to tell us what would SMRT buy.
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I don't bother reading chunks and chunks of text.
But I find it strange how some people thinks that the COI will have no effect on SMRT's future procurements.
1. COI identifies bendies as a significant factor behind the poor response to the breakdowns.
2. COI figures that SMRT never thought that the breakdowns would ever be this serious and therefore had little preparation and plans in the event.
3. LTA was deemed to be less than strict with SMRT.
If these 3 points do not hint at "no more bendies in future" to you guys, I don't know what would be.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
So how many more are you going to catch? 1 vs thousand ? And in this society, we have to bear with everything, Do we? It's part of our life and it can't be brushed away 'because it doesn't fit'. This itself is not a valid excuse.
These kind of stuff happens in society all around the world. People move in, people move out (of SG) to other places. SG is no exception. Answers like 'It doesn't fit our infrastructure' doesn't work anymore. Our ministers are trying ways for different kinds of vehicles/for all (people) to fit in, And all I can hear is complaining, whining and not enough. It's their responsibility to ensure we can all fit in.
It is up to you how to fit in to our structure, not them.
This is PUBLIC TRANSPORT for god's sake.
You talk like you have seen what is it like to travel around in 3rd world countries where you can only "fit in" and talk about change but can't do anything.
Have you indeed?
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bendies still have their usefulness and they are effective in feeder services,
With the emphasize now towards the concept of hub-and-spoke and bus-to-train intermodal transfer, the average bus journey time has reduced as compared to the 80s before train system was operational
Most of the bus journeys undertook by the commuters don't exceed half an hour and bus routes are also getting shorter
Gone are the days when passengers need to spend well over an hour on the buses to travel from one estate to another estate
In singapore context, if passengers were to choose between comfort and punctuality, i think they'll opt for punctuality
I don't detest bendies but nevertheless, i hope to see SMRTB first DD!
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Haha must invite them go COI too so that they get the clear picture la bro.No point argue with these people,Waste current only
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why the negative sentiments against bendies.
i don't think they have a problem
it's the increased number of car users contributing to traffic congestion and finding bendies an eye-sore, and amplifying their abhorence on bendies, majority against minority
it's just like the big crowd find fault with fat/big-sized people
If we have lesser cars on the roads, bendies are not a problem
If cars can occupy road space, so can bendies, so can container trucks with 40 ft trailers, as long as that stretch of road does not legally restrict long vehicles, then no problem
those car users ought to reflect mannn...they also occupy road space..in fact for a lone driver in his car, he waste road space even more...
Likely outcome is that bendies are confined to CCK/woodlands/yishun to serve their feeders and restricted from congested CBD area or areas under SBS purview
Nevertheless i hope to see SMRTB first DD!
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I don't care if you want to use bendies in Yishun / WL / CCK. Don't bring them into CBD and East. I don't want to see bendies on 106 and 190. These have to change to DD routes.
I am not saying SMRT converts its entire fleet to DD-SD immediately and remove the bendies. Just don't be so rigid and stubborn not to introduce DDs on heavy routes like 106 and 190 that come into the city where bendies are a nuisance.
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Originally posted by No_10_Tomas:
why the negative sentiments against bendies.
i don't think they have a problem
it's the increased number of car users contributing to traffic congestion and finding bendies an eye-sore, and amplifying their abhorence on bendies, majority against minority
it's just like the big crowd find fault with fat/big-sized people
If we have lesser cars on the roads, bendies are not a problem
If cars can occupy road space, so can bendies, so can container trucks with 40 ft trailers, as long as that stretch of road does not legally restrict long vehicles, then no problem
those car users ought to reflect mannn...they also occupy road space..in fact for a lone driver in his car, he waste road space even more...
Likely outcome is that bendies are confined to CCK/woodlands/yishun to serve their feeders and restricted from congested CBD area or areas under SBS purview
Nevertheless i hope to see SMRTB first DD!
With or without cars, you still fail to see that bendies are still a problem to other public buses and not just other vehicles. How about bus interchanges, bus depots, bus bays and only buses bus lanes where there are no other vehicles on the roads??? Lesser cars won't solve the problem anyway since in the first place bendies themselves are already creating problems for other buses in bus interchanges and bus stops.
It is the design of the bus stops, bus interchanges and how efficient these infrastructures should work to provide a better bus service. LTA can create a bus only lane but bendy buses will still hog the road space of other buses and create long queues along bus lanes which LTA do not encourage at all. What is the point of running half empty bendy buses all the time which hogs the roads and cause more inefficiencies for the whole bus system???
And if lesser cars, means lesser roads, which means even more no bendies should be allowed but for more normal 12m buses for more bus services to cater for the increasing crowds.
BCs are also getting fed up with these bendies hogging the space in bus interchanges, bus bays and bus lanes. Passengers are also fed up when their buses behind couldn't board because the bendy bus hog the whole bus stop and have to wait for it to leave before their bus goes in the bus bay/bus stop.
They don't just jam CBD roads but also crowded suburban centrals. Go observe how bendies managed to create jams in bus interchanges in Yishun and Woodlands at different times and sent other BCs behind honking away while trying to move.
Trailer trucks and bendies works differently even they take up a lot of space. Trailer trucks goes from point A to B non stop to deliver goods or park, that's all. And trailer trucks have other limitations on going on certain roads.
Bendy buses are much different, they stop and go, stop and go at every bus stop and so their frequencies and chances of obstructing the traffic of other road users are much higher. And such obstructions causes the bendy buses to move more slowly, takes up more time of other buses and also waiting times for other passengers with all the jams and queues created in bus stops and bus interchanges.
Originally posted by TIB783G:No, I'm not (running away from the facts), But you failed to realize this kind of situations are the same, with or without bendies. Find the reports for me, And as usual no proof no talk.
Ok, fine, report then(about LTA saying 12M buses)? One thing I far as I am concerned, No evidence no talk, or a PR as proof.
Let them decide for themselves, We don't need 'fortune tellers' to tell us what would SMRT buy.
Report has already presented to you on the first page and you don't bother to read or just can't accept the fact.
Have LTA tried without bendies on the roads yet??? And not yet and going to, so how do you know that the situation will be the same??? The most likely situation that it will be improved when there are no bendies on the roads in future. Before the bendy buses were even introduced and during MRT era, there wasn't so much problems like long bus queues and messy buses trying to cut each other lane.I agree that let SMRT to decide themselves but LTA should have already gave them a hint to switch to 12m double deckers in future under the tables, which SMRT will cooperate with them instead of making the worst mistake like TIBS getting bendies.
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The COI is finding out what is wrong and need to rectify it.
As who is responsible and who is to be punished, the past few COI already paved the way for no one is accountable and responsible.
In this case, the train company should take responsibility for their lack of maintenance instead of insisting that they have done their jobs.
If they have done more than enough, what happened in Dec 2011 must be act ot the Almighty ?
As for the governing body, their duty is to do the check and audit on the present system.
It is also obvious that the check and audit was not sound enough to pick up the faults.
At the end of the day, with the faults highlighted, when will the faults be rectified and system improved ?
Or we have to wait for another blackout ?
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very difficult to attribute the breakdown to act of god since the incident took place in the tunnel
unless they can find evidence to prove that the worn down fasteners was due to lightning strike, prolonged showers or high temperature under the hot sun
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
This is PUBLIC TRANSPORT for god's sake.
You talk like you have seen what is it like to travel around in 3rd world countries where you can only "fit in" and talk about change but can't do anything.
Have you indeed?
Yes it's public, Which means 'Even if we don't like we still have to suck it up' and bear with it.
I'm grateful that I live in SG and no other places and surprisingly, These 3rd class people definitely SG a nice place to live in, Even though it has it's own short complaining, They didn't complain. They chose to live with it.
I have, indeed, But it is sad that our own people never stopped complaining about our transport.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Report has already presented to you on the first page and you don't bother to read or just can't accept the fact.
Have LTA tried without bendies on the roads yet??? And not yet and going to, so how do you know that the situation will be the same??? The most likely situation that it will be improved when there are no bendies on the roads in future. Before the bendy buses were even introduced and during MRT era, there wasn't so much problems like long bus queues and messy buses trying to cut each other lane.I agree that let SMRT to decide themselves but LTA should have already gave them a hint to switch to 12m double deckers in future under the tables, which SMRT will cooperate with them instead of making the worst mistake like TIBS getting bendies.
Yes, I've read the report alright, But it still doesn't 'deserve to be banned'.
What happened in the past is history. History =/= future.
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Originally posted by TIB783G:
Yes, I've read the report alright, But it still doesn't 'deserve to be banned'.
What happened in the past is history. History =/= future.
LTA has made the decision. They want to solve problems for the future, not creating more problems to fulfill a small group of people's fantasies.Originally posted by TIB783G:Yes it's public, Which means 'Even if we don't like we still have to suck it up' and bear with it.
I'm grateful that I live in SG and no other places and surprisingly, These 3rd class people definitely SG a nice place to live in, Even though it has it's own short complaining, They didn't complain. They chose to live with it.
I have, indeed, But it is sad that our own people never stopped complaining about our transport.
Don't complain doesn't mean they are happy. Just that some of them choose the more extreme ways, like hitting cabbies, quarreling fighting with others in bus and MRT. -
the fact is this is Sg and people's expectation on the transport infrastructure has to be higher and demanding than other less developed countries
This is a time-driven and stressed up and stringent country where failure is not tolerated
We are in a country where leaders and top management are paid many many times as compared that of other countries
given the remuneration and perks paid to our transport minister and CEOs, they are expected to perform and deliver
They cannot blame us for being too demanding...they can only blame themselves for their outrageous salary and the unwarranted stress tied in with heavier responsibility
Now experts findings have attributed the entire saga to shoddy maintenance regime, in other words..negligence
“You knew the risks, and you didn’t do enough. You implemented cable ties.”
contrary to what LTY has previous claimed..experts say that the two incidents were actually preventable
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
LTA has made the decision. They want to solve problems for the future, not creating more problems to fulfill a small group of people's fantasies.
Don't complain doesn't mean they are happy. Just that some of them choose the more extreme ways, like hitting cabbies, quarreling fighting with others in bus and MRT.I still believe these people see bigger pictures and won't make bans over this kind of trival matters.
These kind of things are common everyday. So long it is over they won't care so much yeah? That is SG style. Complaining so much, When it's over they will forget things like kids.
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So if another incident occur at AMK again how? Mistakes or shortcoming we've to learn, and move on by not repeating it again. If we dun learn, how to fight another war?