Double Deckers for SMRT
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Too bad for you. People want better frequencies, govt have limited land space and wants the flexibility to operate more bus routes. So more 12m buses to use and no more bendies would be much PRACTICAL AND BETTER.
Compare 2 bendies with 3 single rigids.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Seriously, some ppl is not poor in English… Is ppl pose qn they dunno how to reply, they dun want to read and they dun want to know…
Then they’ve no idea how to answer then whack alrdy… But this kind goes to show, they’ve no idea how to answer anything at all.. later start hurling vulgarity and say that so n so is offensive.. so who’s offensive in the first place w/ vulgarity?
and it’s the same thinking.. Saying only AMK wat… So if MRT rosak at AMK again, to get scolded by people again? I’ll say, stubborn ppl who never change aft any expert’s COI report are the real extremist… Cos they never want to read, analyse and learn… If it’s not extremeist or stubborn ppl, then what that is?
Seriously I’ve never heard of people wanting to do the same old mistake again, because as good as never learn from it…
Not surprising, can’t say a thing hurl vulgarity.. Tell u, also hurl vulgarity… Stubborn people… How old only scold vulgarity…
Dun need to pot calling kettle black..
Anyway, like it or not, there’s some things people dun have to tell you at all… Just look and listen for things around you and figure it out…
You know, it's the same few people again who try to screw logics and twist facts to argue their way through to prove their wraped ideas, just like the arguement many months back about the poor management and substandard bus operations by SMRTB and even its own core rail business as a whole. They can say any crap that nothing is wrong with the company and how it operates and brush aside any truth that really potentially will hit the company bad one day.
When SMRT Corp finally get into real trouble based on real facts, all these people keep quiet. All their crap just don't simply work out and turn out what it is meant for them of what they said in the past. Typical SMRT fanboys.
I find it highly amusing that 2 parties here can argue for pages for this substandard company which has always been poorly organised and managed. To those who think bendy buses suck, have you ever wondered that it is because of SMRTB poor management of its operations instead?
On the other point of view, yes, you may be right that bendy buses are the root of the problem of SMRTB poor management of its bus operations.
Given this point, isn't this an egg or chicken question? SMRTB poor management problem or bendy bus problem?
If SMRTB operations and management isn't that bad and poorly done, would bendy buses cause all these problems of jams and long queues?
On the other hand, if SMRTB do not have bendy buses, won't it be easier for SMRTB to operate and manage in areas of scheduling, parking and maintanace?
Go think about it.
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Originally posted by SBS8501U:
Compare 2 bendies with 3 single rigids.
3 SDs can serve 270 passengers in 3 different bus services. 2 bendies can only serve 260 passengers with 2 services. Both examples in a bus stop, obviously the latter is less efficient.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
3 SDs can serve 270 passengers in 3 different bus services. 2 bendies can only serve 260 passengers with 2 services. Both examples in a bus stop, obviously the latter is less efficient.
Who pay for extra BC??? Not enough BC where find BC???
Unless use Euro VI Citaro, Citaro L n Citaro G!! High capacity!!!
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Originally posted by SMB228X:
Who pay for extra BC??? Not enough BC where find BC???
Unless use Euro VI Citaro, Citaro L n Citaro G!! High capacity!!!
Yo retard.
That's why SMRT should get DDs. Use 2 BCs, carry 260 people and use only 2 normal bus spaces in the bus stop. And can add in a 3rd DD, total passenger levels can up to 390. Can cater 3 different bus services somemore le.
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For the benefit of both parties, why not the following suggestions?
- SMRTB is allowed to buy bendy buses but only limited to 50 to 70 units.
- SMRTB have to scale down its operations with these bendy buses by giving up either Bukit Batok or Yishun to SBST. They have the option to operate 100 bendy buses if they give up both Bukit Batok and Yishun to SBST.
- SMRTB cannot operate new bus services in future with more bendy buses but due to future development of Simpang new town, they can introduce no more than 10 services for Simpang.
- SMRTB cannot use these bendy buses for trunk routes or routes out of the estate and only limited to feeder bus services within the same town. This is limited to services not more than 2 km or 10 bus stops within the estate.
- These buses are only limited to run between bus depot and bus interchanges and within their feeder bus routes as stated above, and strictly no where else.
- If these bendy buses are found to run on trunk routes out of the estate or any shuttle bus services, SMRTB will be heavily fined per bus. If these bendy buses are found to be passed through the ERP gantries in the city, they will be charged SGD30 per gantry due to the road space they occupy in the city.
- If any SMRTB bendy buses or any SMRTB buses are found to be parked outside the roads of the bus depot, they will be fined for illegal parking.
- Any SMRTB bendy bus are only limited to 3 mins of activity of boarding and alighting along busy bus lanes, bus stops and bus interchanges. Any time more than 3 mins which results in long bus queues behind will result a fine for SMRTB.
- In the event in the future that the roads within the housing estate and the bus interchanges have become more congested due to more buses and more bus services, SMRTB will have to stop using the bendy bus fleet partially, and eventually fully if the situation worsen.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
For the benefit of both parties, why not the following suggestions?
- SMRTB is allowed to buy bendy buses but only limited to 50 to 70 units.
- SMRTB have to scale down its operations with these bendy buses by giving up either Bukit Batok or Yishun to SBST. They have the option to operate 100 bendy buses if they give up both Bukit Batok and Yishun to SBST.
- SMRTB cannot operate new bus services in future with more bendy buses but due to future development of Simpang new town, they can introduce no more than 10 services for Simpang.
- SMRTB cannot use these bendy buses for trunk routes or routes out of the estate and only limited to feeder bus services within the same town. This is limited to services not more than 2 km or 10 bus stops within the estate.
- These buses are only limited to run between bus depot and bus interchanges and within their feeder bus routes as stated above, and strictly no where else.
- If these bendy buses are found to run on trunk routes out of the estate or any shuttle bus services, SMRTB will be heavily fined per bus. If these bendy buses are found to be passed through the ERP gantries in the city, they will be charged SGD30 per gantry due to the road space they occupy in the city.
- If any SMRTB bendy buses or any SMRTB buses are found to be parked outside the roads of the bus depot, they will be fined for illegal parking.
- Any SMRTB bendy bus are only limited to 3 mins of activity of boarding and alighting along busy bus lanes, bus stops and bus interchanges. Any time more than 3 mins which results in long bus queues behind will result a fine for SMRTB.
- In the event in the future that the roads within the housing estate and the bus interchanges have become more congested due to more buses and more bus services, SMRTB will have to stop using the bendy bus fleet partially, and eventually fully if the situation worsen.
Then might as well don't use bendies. Your idea to still use bendies is dumb.
You seems biased against SMRT. SMRT just need to ditch bendies for good and that's all. No need so many restrictions.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Then might as well don't use bendies. Your idea to still use bendies is dumb.
You seems biased against SMRT. SMRT just need to ditch bendies for good and that's all. No need so many restrictions.
If he is biased towards SMRT, then you are even more biased to SBST
Come on boy. Wake up. Do you think it is economically feasible for them to ditch bendies when their own infrastructure and resources don't permit them?
People make comments based on their own experience and observations. Don't try to lie. If they live at Woodlands, they go to the interchange everyday, of course they know what happens lah, not like you who probably makes comments based off one situation only.
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Originally posted by dan474:
If he is biased towards SMRT, then you are even more biased to SBST
Come on boy. Wake up. Do you think it is economically feasible for them to ditch bendies when their own infrastructure and resources don't permit them?
People make comments based on their own experience and observations. Don't try to lie. If they live at Woodlands, they go to the interchange everyday, of course they know what happens lah, not like you who probably makes comments based off one situation only.
Sorry, I hope SMRT can be as efficient as SBST to use double deckers. Not like him. I use the word against SMRT, not towards. Which part you don't understand???I think you are the one who should wake up sia. You already said our country's infrastructure and resources do not allow them anymore, still want to make things worse with bendies when population density is growing denser in future??? Economically feasible to pharse them out batch by batch when they are up for deregister, not now by one shoot.
Everyday I go Yishun and Woodlands and I can say I related my observations on what mess bendies have done everytime I go to these interchanges. Someone even posted pictures to show the situation here before. Don't act blind or deaf and try flipping here and there.
Please la, you want your bendy bus then go Europe. Singapore is not for you and your naive dreams.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Then might as well don't use bendies. Your idea to still use bendies is dumb.
You seems biased against SMRT. SMRT just need to ditch bendies for good and that's all. No need so many restrictions.
I am truly appalled at your stance over this issue.
Where I stay in Yishun, the roads are way too narrow for a DD to manoeuvre through. The existing bendy buses that serve the routes that are high in passenger demand (so don't tell me to switch to 12m SD buses) are already having troubles turning into the narrow 1 lane road that offers the smallest possible amount of space for a bus to turn in. Mind you, 18m bendy buses have smaller turning radii than full length 12m tri-axle DDs. Often I sit on them with the rear axle actually mounting the kerb after they turn, so if I were to replace them with DD 1-for-1, the rear axle is going to hit the side railings so to speak?
That is not the only place of concern. I can think of at least 5 more places around SMRT served areas that have tight corners not suited for DD to pass through, and they are all interim areas within small neighbourhoods that are served by feeder or intratown services with high demand. It is easy for you to say change bendy buses to DD but have you surveyed the roads before and see how impossible it would be for a DD to turn into those small and tight corners?
I welcome the idea of changing bendy buses served on major trunk routes to DDs. For one, the roads served by these services are mostly huge, so it is not an issue to deploy DDs. Two, we could really use the extra seats on the upper deck especially during the peak periods. But I hope you understand not every service using bendy buses can be converted into using DDs so easily. And please don't say convert into 12m SD with 150% more operating frequencies. Then I would ask you to calculate the extra amount of diesel and costs of hiring more drivers first.
I don't want to talk so much as I observe you have an impounding sensitivity over people who choose to express their neutral views on the pros and cons of bendy buses, as you tend to call them naive, dumb, stupid or whatsoever and try to coerce them into only one and only one biased stand - that bendy buses are completely bad and we should eliminate them.
But I only have one question. Since you have called vicamour's idea of bringing small amounts of bendy buses "dumb", and I forsee you're going to call me stupid again by saying why not bring in "small amounts of 10.6m twin-axle DD to cover bendies", then isn't it the same logic as why we should bring in small amounts of bendy buses solely for feeder routes?
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Originally posted by Oceane:
I am truly appalled at your stance over this issue.
Where I stay in Yishun, the roads are way too narrow for a DD to manoeuvre through. The existing bendy buses that serve the routes that are high in passenger demand (so don't tell me to switch to 12m SD buses) are already having troubles turning into the narrow 1 lane road that offers the smallest possible amount of space for a bus to turn in. Mind you, 18m bendy buses have smaller turning radii than full length 12m tri-axle DDs. Often I sit on them with the rear axle actually mounting the kerb after they turn, so if I were to replace them with DD 1-for-1, the rear axle is going to hit the side railings so to speak?
That is not the only place of concern. I can think of at least 5 more places around SMRT served areas that have tight corners not suited for DD to pass through, and they are all interim areas within small neighbourhoods that are served by feeder or intratown services with high demand. It is easy for you to say change bendy buses to DD but have you surveyed the roads before and see how impossible it would be for a DD to turn into those small and tight corners?
I welcome the idea of changing bendy buses served on major trunk routes to DDs. For one, the roads served by these services are mostly huge, so it is not an issue to deploy DDs. Two, we could really use the extra seats on the upper deck especially during the peak periods. But I hope you understand not every service using bendy buses can be converted into using DDs so easily. And please don't say convert into 12m SD with 150% more operating frequencies. Then I would ask you to calculate the extra amount of diesel and costs of hiring more drivers first.
I don't want to talk so much as I observe you have an impounding sensitivity over people who choose to express their neutral views on the pros and cons of bendy buses, as you tend to call them naive, dumb, stupid or whatsoever and try to coerce them into only one and only one biased stand - that bendy buses are completely bad and we should eliminate them.
But I only have one question. Since you have called vicamour's idea of bringing small amounts of bendy buses "dumb", and I forsee you're going to call me stupid again by saying why not bring in "small amounts of 10.6m twin-axle DD to cover bendies", then isn't it the same logic as why we should bring in small amounts of bendy buses solely for feeder routes?
An excellent stance you have there. I fully support your claims.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
I am truly appalled at your stance over this issue.
Where I stay in Yishun, the roads are way too narrow for a DD to manoeuvre through. The existing bendy buses that serve the routes that are high in passenger demand (so don't tell me to switch to 12m SD buses) are already having troubles turning into the narrow 1 lane road that offers the smallest possible amount of space for a bus to turn in. Mind you, 18m bendy buses have smaller turning radii than full length 12m tri-axle DDs. Often I sit on them with the rear axle actually mounting the kerb after they turn, so if I were to replace them with DD 1-for-1, the rear axle is going to hit the side railings so to speak?
That is not the only place of concern. I can think of at least 5 more places around SMRT served areas that have tight corners not suited for DD to pass through, and they are all interim areas within small neighbourhoods that are served by feeder or intratown services with high demand. It is easy for you to say change bendy buses to DD but have you surveyed the roads before and see how impossible it would be for a DD to turn into those small and tight corners?
I welcome the idea of changing bendy buses served on major trunk routes to DDs. For one, the roads served by these services are mostly huge, so it is not an issue to deploy DDs. Two, we could really use the extra seats on the upper deck especially during the peak periods. But I hope you understand not every service using bendy buses can be converted into using DDs so easily. And please don't say convert into 12m SD with 150% more operating frequencies. Then I would ask you to calculate the extra amount of diesel and costs of hiring more drivers first.
I don't want to talk so much as I observe you have an impounding sensitivity over people who choose to express their neutral views on the pros and cons of bendy buses, as you tend to call them naive, dumb, stupid or whatsoever and try to coerce them into only one and only one biased stand - that bendy buses are completely bad and we should eliminate them.
But I only have one question. Since you have called vicamour's idea of bringing small amounts of bendy buses "dumb", and I forsee you're going to call me stupid again by saying why not bring in "small amounts of 10.6m twin-axle DD to cover bendies", then isn't it the same logic as why we should bring in small amounts of bendy buses solely for feeder routes?
Bring in the 14.5m MAN Lion's City 3-axle DD with 3 doors for SMRT and he'll be happy. Wait there isn't a LHD version of it
He'll forever be biased against bendies. No matter what is the circumstances, he'll continue shooting.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Sorry, I hope SMRT can be as efficient as SBST to use double deckers. Not like him.
I use the word against SMRT, not towards. Which part you don't
understand???I think you are the one who should wake up sia. You already said our country's infrastructure and resources do not allow them anymore, still want to make things worse with bendies when population density is growing denser in future??? Economically feasible to pharse them out batch by batch when they are up for deregister, not now by one shoot.
Everyday I go Yishun and Woodlands and I can say I related my observations on what mess bendies have done everytime I go to these interchanges. Someone even posted pictures to show the situation here before. Don't act blind or deaf and try flipping here and there.
Please la, you want your bendy bus then go Europe. Singapore is not for you and your naive dreams.
Population is becoming denser? What about Jakarta, they use bendies for their BRT?
Don't try to bullshit that Yishun and Woodlands are extremely messy with bendies. If they are messy now, they will be even more messy if you change to DDs. The bendies load and unload people at a much faster rate than DDs. Too bad there can never be 3-door DD in SG, because DD chassis are only 12m
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Are we serious that we are still arguing about this???
DDs for trunk, bendies for feeder.
Stop the useles discussion both groups. Doesn't matter. It is SMRTs decision, finally.
Looks like I will have to get my own thread locked
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
3 SDs can serve 270 passengers in 3 different bus services. 2 bendies can only serve 260 passengers with 2 services. Both examples in a bus stop, obviously the latter is less efficient.
FYI.A comfortable journey with
2 SDs - 140 pax (please don't use 90 pax for SDs, not possible to cramp so many people in, and people don't move to the extreme end)
2 bendies - 220 pax
2 DDs - 240 pax
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Originally posted by SBS2656X:
An excellent stance you have there. I fully support your claims.
When you consider that SBST controlled Tampines and Bedok with their huge loading that definitely exceeds the North's population density, survived with full SD fleets for those that lack DD......
The argument just falls apart like match-sticks.
And yes. Feeders like 293 etc also use small roads.
Say what?
Consider also the fact that SMRT is a significantly smaller competitor.
If it buys bendies, of course it will use it on trunk routes also. Flexibility with economies of scale to be exploited.
At the end of the day, the main root of problem lies not so much with SMRT's perceived ineptness, but the very real problems of competition in our context. What can SMRT do with the high density areas that shld use high capacity buses?
The ideal answer would be buy bendies only for feeder, and DD for trunks.
But you seriously think that is feasible when SMRT has a small market share?
SBST took the clear step to ditch bendies and it significantly made lives easier for all of us.
But SMRT?
Hedging?
With buses?
Seriously??
To those who keep calling for variety, flexibility....etc etc
I suggest you go buy Tamiya buses....one of each type to satisfy that ludicrous desire.
I have stated why it clearly didnt make sense to have this type and that type already.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
3 SDs can serve 270 passengers in 3 different bus services. 2 bendies can only serve 260 passengers with 2 services. Both examples in a bus stop, obviously the latter is less efficient.
If we were to compare with them operating on the same service.
Indeed, 3 SDs can serve 10 more passengers than 2 bendies.
But please remember that bus captains are getting more and more difficult to hire, as less people are willing to take up such jobs and it will be hard to get foreign talents.
Then deploy double deckers? Again, please remember that there are anti-dd services which require bendies.
Then if you want to tell me replace all bendies with single rigids, for example 190,
That is really impractical (How can you expect 50+ buses operating on ONE PARTICULAR SERVICE?)
IMO, when using double deckers is impossible and you really need to use bendies, that is probably the only way out.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Sorry, I hope SMRT can be as efficient as SBST to use double deckers. Not like him.
I use the word against SMRT, not towards. Which part you don't
understand???I think you are the one who should wake up sia. You already said our country's infrastructure and resources do not allow them anymore, still want to make things worse with bendies when population density is growing denser in future??? Economically feasible to pharse them out batch by batch when they are up for deregister, not now by one shoot.
Everyday I go Yishun and Woodlands and I can say I related my observations on what mess bendies have done everytime I go to these interchanges. Someone even posted pictures to show the situation here before. Don't act blind or deaf and try flipping here and there.
Please la, you want your bendy bus then go Europe. Singapore is not for you and your naive dreams.
I'm not sure if SMRT will buy double deckers but I'm pretty sure SMRT will still buy bendies.
It is the number of bendies which may differ, smaller or larger. But not less than 100.
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You do realise 190 used to be under SBS with plenty of DDs right?
Dont know why you brought up 190 full SD fleet......a case of foot-in-mouth?
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
someone just use it n treat it as it is his own pic...sbs1000u: not convenient to show it in public...pm me....
I apologise to you (or the person who produce the photo) in the first place for not asking for permission before using the photo. But if I didn't show it as proof, he might think what we are saying are all false.
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If you were to read my posts carefully,
I am only arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT STOP USING BENDIES FOR GOOD.
I am not arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT CONSIDER USING DOUBLE DECKERS.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
FYI.A comfortable journey with
2 SDs - 140 pax (please don't use 90 pax for SDs, not possible to cramp so many people in, and people don't move to the extreme end)
2 bendies - 220 pax
2 DDs - 240 pax
So you are implying that 2 bendies can carry more than 3 rigids?
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Originally posted by TIB1138M:
If you were to read my posts carefully,
I am only arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT STOP USING BENDIES FOR GOOD.
I am not arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT CONSIDER USING DOUBLE DECKERS.
Yes. Non of our bendy fans ever wanted SMRT not to buy DDs, only SBS1000U was the one who wanted SMRT remove bendies. I think he should be facing those people who wanted SMRT not to buy DDs.
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Originally posted by TIB1138M:
If you were to read my posts carefully,
I am only arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT STOP USING BENDIES FOR GOOD.
I am not arguing WHY SMRT SHOULD NOT CONSIDER USING DOUBLE DECKERS.
If you read my post carefully, I was most definitely not praising your argumentative skills.
Why did you use 190 as an example when I can easily shoot you down with what SBS did?
Nobody said about using full SD 190.
Please separate fact from self-opinionated arguments. Otherwise I would just treat your argument for bendies like most here.
Which is very unimpressive.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
If you read my post carefully, I was most definitely not praising your argumentative skills.
Why did you use 190 as an example when I can easily shoot you down with what SBS did?
Nobody said about using full SD 190.
Please separate fact from self-opinionated arguments. Otherwise I would just treat your argument for bendies like most here.
Which is very unimpressive.
My mistake here, but still bendies on 190 will be a preferred choice in my opinions.
But services such as 67 and 960, you seriously cannot omit bendies out.