Scania KUB OR Mercedes-Benz Citaro?
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personally, i like kubs better, 1. colder acs 2. bigger 3. nice headlights 4. when you stand beside the bus, you dont feel the heat much why i hate citaros : 1. warm-cold acs (sometimes a/c not working) 2. lesser seats 3. hot engine when you stand beside it
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Irrelevant question to me....cos they are above my likes and dislikes as they are my necessities.
But I generally dislike non-aircon air-conditioned buses, teeth-chattering buses, and jerky rides (you should ask instead which BCs to avoid and I'll gladly point them out).
The main thing that sets them apart in my opinion is the layout, in that respect, I'll pick the KUB over the Citaro. Its more roomy in general....but thin sheets of aluminium just don't cut it.
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Why I like KUBs:
- Airconditioning is cold
- Euro IV earlier batches can really "run"
Why I hate KUBs:
- Theres 1100 of them running on the roads
- Most of the Euro V batch (especially ex-YOG) are quite powerless
- I dont really like the side facing seat configuration
- Jerky
- Rear seats are way too high
Why I like Citaros:- Fast acceleration
- Sleeky looking
- Overall seating configuration is okay
- Uses voith instead of ZF all along
- "Low-rider" feeling
- Seat size is just right
- Rear doors give the classy, futuristic look of singapore buses
Why I hate Citaros:- Aircon weaker than KUBs
- Aircon not adjustable
- Rear-facing seats on the rear part of the bus
- Seat thickness is too thin (although it comes as standard)
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KUB Likes
- AC can adjust
- Hanover EDS is camera-friendly, CoolAir Isn't?
- Hanover KUB has two wheelarch seats.
KUB Dislikes
- Need to climb steps
- Less Seats
- Aircon not blowing on your face at the normal seats,not the rear
- Aircon highup for wheelarch seats
- Radiator Loud
- EDS may not be camera friendly
CITARO Likes
- Got POWER
- Can chiong although 100KG heavier than KUB
- Step-less except for the rear
- More seats
- Plug Doors Closing and Opening in a different way
- STOPPING sign is not glued together with rego
- Bell press are smooth and nice to touch
- Roaring Sounds at the back
- Cannot Adjust AC
- Bus Infomation blocks the standee area's view
- EDS not camera-friendly
- The Rims is :S
- Sometimes the bus can be warm like hell!
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The steps is irrelevant as the Citaro's steps is thrown to the sides.Now gotta carry small kids up to the respective seats...
Powerless?? Try the Euro 5 climbing the NTU YOG routing upslope....
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I'd pick the Citaro anytime. The KUBs are just horrid, even the Euro 4 ones. I rather suffer the stuffiness of the Citaro then risk falling everytime I'm on the KUB. Its rocking suspension is just the tip of the iceberg. The radiator's damn loud and irritating (gives the impression of being powerless), the gearbox changes too early, making the bus vibrate as the RPMs are too low and the whole bus just feels cheap. Somehow the radiator howling also gives the feeling of increased inertia and gear jerks. I know there are bits on the Citaro that aren't working, but the Citaros exude class, elegance and refinement, which the KUB lacks. The only time when the KUB can try to redeem itself is when it's being revved high. I like the turbo whistle at about 2500rpm.
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Well, the beauty of a bus chassis is very well shown in the kub, you can customise everything that u would like. Dont like Scania? take a MAN, else, take a Mercedes Benz, or if not, take a Volvo. Full Low floor for accessiblity, or Low entry for seats, up to you to pick. And also the engine and drivetrain can be selected.
At the end of the day, you just need a coachbuilder to build a suitable body to what you would want. Just for the kub, you can already choose from a very wide variety from something that's solid like Hispano, or Caetano, Custom Coaches, Volgren, Gemilang, SC Auto and etc. You could also have all sorts of different makes and models, and just have a single coachbuilder to build it all, using the exact same specification so the most can be saved from maintaience. And also all the interior layouts you'd want.
But compared to a integral product, its not easy to find a body that fits as well. Some examples, OC's mirror are too high and the sl has to always look up, or the dm body on lances, etc.
An analogy to put this, compare a diy PC built from components at sim lim square and a complete product from apple, hp, dell, acer, etc. You can get a very customised casing and components when u diy, but in terms of support, will it be as hassle free as a complete product?
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As for the citaro, i do believe the air conditioning issues will be resolved soon.
And for the layout, smrt/sbst have a choice to change it to something better, just that they are not using this choice.
If you want a rear similar to the kub, they could pick a Citaro LE which is basically something similar to a integral OC500LE, but with the front independent suspension that gives the Citaro the smooth turns.
This is a example from Qbuzz taken by some chap on imageshack.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/dscf6089.jpg/
Otherwise if u want more walkway space at the front, this is another example from the new 2011 Citaro.
Notice the seats on the door side are only single seats, similar to some of our O405Gs.
Image from MB's press kit.
So as you can see, the operators could well modify the seating layout, but its not being done yet.
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sbs should modify the air-con system maybe by adding a guide along the air-con output just like the old 405. citaro is import direct from german compare to kub which is bulid locally. sometime is good to import the whole bus direct from factory just like car. but i refer sbs bulid the bus locally so that the bus can tailor to local needs. Kub suspension is no good at all the bus very rocky in fact most of the kub is very rocky.
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I second that.
But I think suspension is half the story only.
The K230UB's weight distribution is not good with most of the weight at the rear giving it a rocking horse effect. The only advantage of this is when the K230UB crosses a hump at high speed: You don't feel it at all.
If you try the same thing with a B10M we would suffer a massive jolt to our spines, particularly at the rear!
And this shows when the K230UB undergoes heavy braking, front axle tends to skid and the ABS activates with very loud and violent BONK BONK BONK because of the rear-biased weight. B10Ms hardly have this issue.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I second that.
But I think suspension is half the story only.
The K230UB's weight distribution is not good with most of the weight at the rear giving it a rocking horse effect. The only advantage of this is when the K230UB crosses a hump at high speed: You don't feel it at all.
If you try the same thing with a B10M we would suffer a massive jolt to our spines, particularly at the rear!
And this shows when the K230UB undergoes heavy braking, front axle tends to skid and the ABS activates with very loud and violent BONK BONK BONK because of the rear-biased weight. B10Ms hardly have this issue.
u will suffer a massive jolt on a kub when it goes over a hump from a inperpendicular position.
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Originally posted by AEW5001:
u will suffer a massive jolt on a kub when it goes over a hump from a inperpendicular position.
true true.
But then if you do the same with say........a B10M you'll probably get skull fracture and broken window.
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I've only taken one KUB on 27 that doesn't have the loud radiator problem. Are the engines always close to overheating due to the hot climate or are the radiators just malfunctioning? SBST's apathetic disregard for the radiator problems on the B9TLs, Striders and the KUB is are questionable.
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Originally posted by nfshp253:
I've only taken one KUB on 27 that doesn't have the loud radiator problem. Are the engines always close to overheating due to the hot climate or are the radiators just malfunctioning? SBST's apathetic disregard for the radiator problems on the B9TLs, Striders and the KUB is are questionable.
Funny enough, most KUBs I take (Sv 109, 43, 156, 317) do not have a howling radiator.
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Originally posted by SBS5013G:
KUB Likes
- AC can adjust
- Hanover EDS is camera-friendly, CoolAir Isn't?
- Hanover KUB has two wheelarch seats.
KUB Dislikes
- Need to climb steps
- Less Seats
- Aircon not blowing on your face at the normal seats,not the rear
- Aircon highup for wheelarch seats
- Radiator Loud
- EDS may not be camera friendly
CITARO Likes
- Got POWER
- Can chiong although 100KG heavier than KUB
- Step-less except for the rear
- More seats
- Plug Doors Closing and Opening in a different way
- STOPPING sign is not glued together with rego
- Bell press are smooth and nice to touch
- Roaring Sounds at the back
Citaro Dislikes
- Cannot Adjust AC
- Bus Infomation blocks the standee area's view
- EDS not camera-friendly
- The Rims is :S
- Sometimes the bus can be warm like hell!
Is it me or does the Citaro 1st gear feel kind of 'slow'? I hear the engine working rather hard but the bus doesn't seem to move very quickly. I only feel the acceleration after the 1st gear.
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Originally posted by nfshp253:
I'd pick the Citaro anytime. The KUBs are just horrid, even the Euro 4 ones. I rather suffer the stuffiness of the Citaro then risk falling everytime I'm on the KUB. Its rocking suspension is just the tip of the iceberg. The radiator's damn loud and irritating (gives the impression of being powerless), the gearbox changes too early, making the bus vibrate as the RPMs are too low and the whole bus just feels cheap. Somehow the radiator howling also gives the feeling of increased inertia and gear jerks. I know there are bits on the Citaro that aren't working, but the Citaros exude class, elegance and refinement, which the KUB lacks. The only time when the KUB can try to redeem itself is when it's being revved high. I like the turbo whistle at about 2500rpm.
The Citaro gearboxes also seem to change too early (especially to 4th gear) from my own personal observation... I often hear the gearbox going down a gear because the engine can't provide enough power (is this the correct way to say this?). Plus there's a jolt when it goes from 1st to 2nd gear.
I prefer the ZF gearbox because it's kinda nice to listen to :)
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Originally posted by SBS1869E:
Funny enough, most KUBs I take (Sv 109, 43, 156, 317) do not have a howling radiator.
and they are all WAB svc u mentioned, which is saying sth...SBS8673G has this problem where your eardrums will get shattered if you go near it/are on it.
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IMO. I still prefer the KUBs much more than Citaros.
For KUBS, the front space is very spacious and seem to be able to squeeze in many passengers. Also, I find the walkway aisle of the KUB rear a little more spacious than Citaros. And I love the high ceilings of the KUBs and it looks elegant. I don't bother of the steps along the walkway leading to the rear of the KUBs; as I still prefer in this manner than the Citaros where I got to climb up the steps from the walkway onto the seat instead.
When I'm seating on the outer seat that is opposite the back-facing seats, I got a little worried when the bus is moving, because there is no poles or seat handles in front of me to hold on to. Also, as there is a step between the outer seats and walking aisle, I also got a little worried when the bus is turning, as I can't place my legs a little more onto the walkway to better balance myself; unlike the KUBs.
But I dislike the KUBs jerking during acceleration and braking. However, some KUBs have probably been fine-tuned; and combined with good KUB bus captains' driving skills, have made travelling on KUBs much more pleasant. So I hope SBST and Scania can work further together to improve the KUBs and better train the BCs to make our journeys more pleasant.
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
IMO. I still prefer the KUBs much more than Citaros.
For KUBS, the front space is very spacious and seem to be able to squeeze in many passengers. Also, I find the walkway aisle of the KUB rear a little more spacious than Citaros. And I love the high ceilings of the KUBs and it looks elegant. I don't bother of the steps along the walkway leading to the rear of the KUBs; as I still prefer in this manner than the Citaros where I got to climb up the steps from the walkway onto the seat instead.
When I'm seating on the outer seat that is opposite the back-facing seats, I got a little worried when the bus is moving, because there is no poles or seat handles in front of me to hold on to. Also, as there is a step between the outer seats and walking aisle, I also got a little worried when the bus is turning, as I can't place my legs a little more onto the walkway to better balance myself; unlike the KUBs.
But I dislike the KUBs jerking during acceleration and braking. However, some KUBs have probably been fine-tuned; and combined with good KUB bus captains' driving skills, have made travelling on KUBs much more pleasant. So I hope SBST and Scania can work further together to improve the KUBs and better train the BCs to make our journeys more pleasant.
like SBS8743M. The first time i came near it, i had a feeling that KUB is the best maintained.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
and they are all WAB svc u mentioned, which is saying sth...SBS8673G has this problem where your eardrums will get shattered if you go near it/are on it.
Took it this morning! Slightly louder than normal! :)
8672J used to have an extremely loud radiator too...
But I wasn't exactly at the rear of the bus, so I can't really comment ;)
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
IMO. I still prefer the KUBs much more than Citaros.
For KUBS, the front space is very spacious and seem to be able to squeeze in many passengers. Also, I find the walkway aisle of the KUB rear a little more spacious than Citaros. And I love the high ceilings of the KUBs and it looks elegant. I don't bother of the steps along the walkway leading to the rear of the KUBs; as I still prefer in this manner than the Citaros where I got to climb up the steps from the walkway onto the seat instead.
When I'm seating on the outer seat that is opposite the back-facing seats, I got a little worried when the bus is moving, because there is no poles or seat handles in front of me to hold on to. Also, as there is a step between the outer seats and walking aisle, I also got a little worried when the bus is turning, as I can't place my legs a little more onto the walkway to better balance myself; unlike the KUBs.
But I dislike the KUBs jerking during acceleration and braking. However, some KUBs have probably been fine-tuned; and combined with good KUB bus captains' driving skills, have made travelling on KUBs much more pleasant. So I hope SBST and Scania can work further together to improve the KUBs and better train the BCs to make our journeys more pleasant.
i know the exact reason why the kub jerks when it's about to move on.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
true true.
But then if you do the same with say........a B10M you'll probably get skull fracture and broken window.
especially mk3s. -
We should combine the best of everything....the K230UB's aircon and chassis, Citaro's engine, K230UB's transmission and the Citaro's body.
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citaro. kub vibrates like shit. my butt and legs hurt after sitting on kub for long periods of time. kub seems to be going to break apart when going after bumps( body doesnt feel rigid AT ALL) and kub is too jerky ^^
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Let's see, I like neither.
I'd prefer the best of both worlds though.
- Citaro engine.
- Citaro Voith Gearbox.
- Citaro Suspension.
- KUB doors (They don't give much trouble. Citaro doors never seem to work right.)
- KUB layout sans steps (Better flow)
- KUB 'eyeball ducts' (Face it, if you can't see the vents, you can't feel the A/C.)
- KUB seats (They're suited for Asians. Sure, I'm short but I'm not a midget.)
