SMRT Buses purchases MAN A22 buses valued at S$65mln
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Originally posted by SMB66X:
Too bad SBST buses still catch fire...somemore it's in a group..
Which reminds me: both times fire started from LOs.
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
part of the money will pass back to GOV and "board of directors" C&C is a PTE, is not a GLC so what ever money made is to the company not to GOV.how much is PART of the money? S$10 million? S$20 million? the profits WONT go directly to the board of directors... in that case, why should SBST buy from C&C? buy from STK better mah.. money go back to Gov, rather than pte company? further, SBST/SMRT should ask govt to build the mrt train/buses themselves, then all the money will go back to the gov mah...
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Which reminds me: both times fire started from LOs.
which reminds both time it start in the depot and while the buses not in service... while SMRT one happen while the bus in service? 566/1074/1105/901? so many cases of buses caught fire while in service?
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sbst burn in a group as they park too close together in the depot. Wonder why sbs still has so many LO DD runing around?
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Originally posted by SMB66X:
Too bad SBST buses still catch fire...somemore it's in a group..
at least it happen in depot when the buses are off service.. imagine the buses caught fire in SMRT Amdep? guess all the buses parked there will gone case...
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Its also the nature of bus types.....
The Volvo buses are really less prone to fire based on past records.
And SBST happens to have plenty of them.
the worst culprits are the Cummins engines and the 0405s and the 113s.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Which was why I seek clarification at the end. BUT....its also a known fact that MAN was never known to be cheap to start with.Ok, so where's the "remaining" Citaro purported to have been purchased as raised by lemon1974? Nobody has yet to answer that.
So why didn't SMRT build on that earlier Citaro order? And then if we follow your logic (prefectly logical), then SMRT's purchase and earlier trial might have convinced SBST to put bulk order, thereby preventing SMRT access to Citaros in quick order....like that is lagi LPPL right? Because even if SBST's purchase wasn't directly related, it is inextricably linked because the trial and purchase would have vindicated the Citaro (hmmm yes, nice bus => let's buy it!)
Costs aside. Where's my DDs and bendies?
Why SDs again?
You are convinced by SMRT's claim at "trying to be productive"? I am far from being impressed. SBST certainly doesn't advertise 160/170 on its NEL. *snorts*
But I like the MAN. How ironic.
I just think SMRT's is doing a half-baked job. And this is but a reflection of it.
Do think of other costs, especially for its designed service life. Fuel, maintaience, etc. And do enlighten on how is MAN not cheap to start with?
No one knows for sure if smrt bought anymore citaros, its just speculation again. Even the news on daimler was retracted. It looks more like a bad business decision and lack of foresight on smrt's side to not look forward and place their orders first. As what you have said, this allowed sbst to jump in after they found out how valueable this vehicle is and prevented smrt to have their order. No one knows how long is the waiting list for the citaro now.
As for DD and bendies, yes, i stand on your side on why did they not replace some of the SD with DDs or even bendies. It seems to be a logical choice especially when the govt is keen to bring even more ppl into this island.
Did i mention smrt is trying to be productive? Do kindly quote the correct person, thanks.
In spite of all this, the decision to get MAN might be a good decision few years down the road. They now have a inventory of MAN parts and this might be good, especially since MAN do produce both bendies and doubledecks citybuses, unlike Mercedes Benz.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
No one knows for sure if smrt bought anymore citaros, its just speculation again. Even the news on daimler was retracted. It looks more like a bad business decision and lack of foresight on smrt's side to not look forward and place their orders first. As what you have said, this allowed sbst to jump in after they found out how valueable this vehicle is and prevented smrt to have their order. No one knows how long is the waiting list for the citaro now.
Daimler Group produce 39000 complete buses /buses chasis in 2010. i would think that it can accomodate SMRT order's, if SMRT really place orders... but SMRT have decide to buy Man's buses instead... STK might be offering servicing package or what to them.. we wont know.. or sort of buy 100 get 1 free type...
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Do think of other costs, especially for its designed service life. Fuel, maintaience, etc. And do enlighten on how is MAN not cheap to start with?
No one knows for sure if smrt bought anymore citaros, its just speculation again. Even the news on daimler was retracted. It looks more like a bad business decision and lack of foresight on smrt's side to not look forward and place their orders first. As what you have said, this allowed sbst to jump in after they found out how valueable this vehicle is and prevented smrt to have their order. No one knows how long is the waiting list for the citaro now.
As for DD and bendies, yes, i stand on your side on why did they not replace some of the SD with DDs or even bendies. It seems to be a logical choice especially when the govt is keen to bring even more ppl into this island.
Did i mention smrt is trying to be productive? Do kindly quote the correct person, thanks.
In spite of all this, the decision to get MAN might be a good decision few years down the road. They now have a inventory of MAN parts and this might be good, especially since MAN do produce both bendies and doubledecks citybuses, unlike Mercedes Benz.
No problem.
Ok, before people start accusing us of flaming. All these have no personal attacks what so ever.
Now....let's talk.
"Productivity" here was with reference to the justification for fare hikes. It struck me as very funny when SMRT claims it has been "trying" to improve productivity when in the end one BC ferries so few pax.
SMRT has little experience with MAN buses. I would be guessing that servicing and indent and even driving the MAN etc etc will be a learning experience for everyone there. Of course I daren't say too much about future servicing costs, but we've had types that gave mainteinance headaches (Dennis products comes to mind)....and even the L113s are falling apart. While the bus's durability might indeed be dependant on the brand, the size of the spare parts market plays a major role rather than the mere presence of the market itself. There are many Scania buses in SG...but the 113s for SBST and SMRT were never known to be terribly reliable.
SMRT's most reliable bus is the 0405....that is doubtless. My guess is that beyond the good old chassis, having 700 0405s in SBST played a role in this. MB would be commited in servicing this huge number of buses. Just about the other types in SMRT's fleet is falling apart, including the 0405Gs which turbocharges the 0405's engine making it more complex and forces it to work harder. I am not sure if servicing costs for all these types actually went down upon purchase. It also boils down to how SMRT BCs love to whack their buses.
In short, you can have MAN as good as can be, but its not a given that the mainteinance costs will be reduced just because the order exceeds 100 or any given number. Perhaps to reduce mainteinance costs that way, you might be needing to exceed a large figure like 300....which was why I found it mystifying why SMRT retract/did not order the Citaro to hitch on SBST's back.
Will MAN even be a mainstay in SMRT's fleet? If based on the past, I highly doubt so....that throws further doubt into the wisdom of purchasing these MAN buses and then switching back to Merc for eg.
Anyway, I still am looking forward to seeing the MAN. I mean...we've had one or two MAN here and there all these while, here's something unprecedented.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Its also the nature of bus types.....
The Volvo buses are really less prone to fire based on past records.
And SBST happens to have plenty of them.
the worst culprits are the Cummins engines and the 0405s and the 113s.
In the UK quite a few Volvo caught fire including some B7LA. O405s caught fire is due to poor maintenance such as leaky fuel pump spray diesel oil all over engine compartment(info from some drivers and official report like TIB1110S, which had a wrong fuel line installed) as well as manufacturing defect like the turbo oil lubrication system(official report both local and overseas). No idea for Volvo and Scania
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:I am not sure if servicing costs for all these types actually went down upon purchase. It also boils down to how SMRT BCs love to whack their buses.
Just a tip. Whacking your trottle is good for the engine, surprisingly. However its not when you whack the gearbox. So i don't know for auto, if whacking trottle is good or not, since doing so will be good for one but detrimental for another i think? It's not a good habit to tickle the engine, say when the BC is early. Worse is the engine struggles in high gear. My experience with motorbike is this can bend your connecting rod, which overtime lead to worse engine vibration and failure.
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Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:
Just a tip. Whacking your trottle is good for the engine, surprisingly. However its not when you whack the gearbox. So i don't know for auto, if whacking trottle is good or not, since doing so will be good for one but detrimental for another i think? It's not a good habit to tickle the engine, say when the BC is early. Worse is the engine struggles in high gear. My experience with motorbike is this can bend your connecting rod, which overtime lead to worse engine vibration and failure.
I think the worst is having the engine struggle with high throttle input at low rpm....like the K230UBs and the sole B7RLE. Especially with high gears, like what you mention.Not healthy for the engine.
Maybe that's why the Euro 4 K230UBs have their threshold rpm raised.
But when the gear starts dragging and such, its really bad for the gearbox...
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
No problem.
Ok, before people start accusing us of flaming. All these have no personal attacks what so ever.
Now....let's talk.
"Productivity" here was with reference to the justification for fare hikes. It struck me as very funny when SMRT claims it has been "trying" to improve productivity when in the end one BC ferries so few pax.
SMRT has little experience with MAN buses. I would be guessing that servicing and indent and even driving the MAN etc etc will be a learning experience for everyone there. Of course I daren't say too much about future servicing costs, but we've had types that gave mainteinance headaches (Dennis products comes to mind)....and even the L113s are falling apart. While the bus's durability might indeed be dependant on the brand, the size of the spare parts market plays a major role rather than the mere presence of the market itself. There are many Scania buses in SG...but the 113s for SBST and SMRT were never known to be terribly reliable.
SMRT's most reliable bus is the 0405....that is doubtless. My guess is that beyond the good old chassis, having 700 0405s in SBST played a role in this. MB would be commited in servicing this huge number of buses. Just about the other types in SMRT's fleet is falling apart, including the 0405Gs which turbocharges the 0405's engine making it more complex and forces it to work harder. I am not sure if servicing costs for all these types actually went down upon purchase. It also boils down to how SMRT BCs love to whack their buses.
In short, you can have MAN as good as can be, but its not a given that the mainteinance costs will be reduced just because the order exceeds 100 or any given number. Perhaps to reduce mainteinance costs that way, you might be needing to exceed a large figure like 300....which was why I found it mystifying why SMRT retract/did not order the Citaro to hitch on SBST's back.
Will MAN even be a mainstay in SMRT's fleet? If based on the past, I highly doubt so....that throws further doubt into the wisdom of purchasing these MAN buses and then switching back to Merc for eg.
Anyway, I still am looking forward to seeing the MAN. I mean...we've had one or two MAN here and there all these while, here's something unprecedented.
I would'nt comment if smrt has been productive or not, in fact, i dont stand by both companies because i really feel that both smrt and sbst can and still have much room for improvements in many areas.
With regard to smrt having zero MAN experience, and the spare parts market, don't forget MAN shares their components between buses and trucks. And where would you be able to find trained MAN trucks mechanics? We actually have over a thousand MAN trucks running around, and i would say they are being treated worse than how smrt sl treats their vehicles.
I wonder too, why did SMRT not buy citaros. They are good workhorses and of high quality, just like the o405 has been, and proven in many countries all over the world. Possibily like lemon1974 has mention, STK gave them a really good deal/package.
Well, i'll finally get to enjoy the turbo whistle which i missed after 2 years of hearing it.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I think the worst is having the engine struggle with high throttle input at low rpm....like the K230UBs and the sole B7RLE. Especially with high gears, like what you mention.Not healthy for the engine.
Maybe that's why the Euro 4 K230UBs have their threshold rpm raised.
But when the gear starts dragging and such, its really bad for the gearbox...
Yeah thats what i meant. Some of my friends had their conrod bent because of this. lol. Depends where the rpm was dragged to. Haha. If all the way max then its bad.
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Oh, and i forgot to add on. Whoever's building the MCV body on the chassis, i hope they do a better job this time. Because KMB's B7RLE's MCV body is much more sturdy and well built.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Oh, and i forgot to add on. Whoever's building the MCV body on the chassis, i hope they do a better job this time. Because KMB's B7RLE's MCV body is much more sturdy and well built.
Soon Chow was the one who assembled the MCV body for SMB138Y.
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Originally posted by TIB770T:
Soon Chow was the one who assembled the MCV body for SMB138Y.
Thanks for the input, cheers
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Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
"Designed with the safety of the passengers in mind, the MAN A22 has a first of its kind Sliding Plug Exit Door. This unique door swings out from the bus body then slides open, enhancing passenger safety as it prevents passengers from accidentally being hit by the door as it closes."
Likely is back to MCV bodywork.
I just hope these MAN buses will be using the original MAN Lion's City bodywork, it looks more attractive than the MCV bodywork~~
If they're using original MAN bodywork, that would be more possibility to see the MAN Lion's City articulate buses or double decker buses as well -
Does the MAN DD using the 10.5 litres one as well?Its good to see SBST buying a few units
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The MAN bus is in workshop of ST Engineering. The front mask is Gemilang copy of Lioncity bus as like those you see in Hong Kong.
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Bus Stopping - They can always hired mechanics who ORD ! They got experience with our MAN 5 tonner !! LOL
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Huh? Are you saying the new SMRT production MAN is already in workshop of ST Engineering and features the Gemilang copy of Lioncity, not MCV Evolution bodywork as many thought it'd be?
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Originally posted by krisgage:
Bus Stopping - They can always hired mechanics who ORD ! They got experience with our MAN 5 tonner !! LOL
Haha, yes. Many of the components between their bus and trucks are shared, except they are now placed in harder to access location compared to the 5-ton's cab.
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So, that means they're using original LionCity bodywork? Or Gemilang again?
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Originally posted by kuang:
So, that means they're using original LionCity bodywork? Or Gemilang again?
Seems like its either pretty bad news, or a very good news.
Still, the turbo whistle is good.
No surprises if its in the workshop already, because the vehicles are supposed to start rolling in from august