Will it be a good move for PTOs to buy a hybrid bus fleet?
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Will it be a good move for SBS Transit/SMRT Buses to buy a fleet of environmentally friendly hybrid bus fleet? Given the current trial of the Sunlong and Zhongtong hybrids.
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NO!!!
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While hybrids are generally termed to be environmentally friendly due to its lower fuel consumption, its quite important to compare the fuel consumption of each model on a particular route. That's because if the fuel savings does not overcome the cost in replacement of batteries, then its not really environmentally friendly anymore as the batteries do require rare minerals to produce (lithium).
Also, Parallel hybrids (both the Sunlong and Zhongtong are parallel hybrids) are generally more useful (save more fuel) on routes that do not have much start and stop operations as the fuel savings is brought about by the use of a lesser powerful engine and some electric motor assist while moving off. This is probably why sbst decided to put the hybrids on 502 instead.
Series hybrid (none at the moment) are more useful in start stop environment because they have a small diesel engine that basically always runs at peak efficiency to charge the batteries. The batteries are then used to drive the electric motors. The fuel savings are brought about by the use of a small engine which is always running at peak efficiency.
So i feel that before they buy a fleet of environmentally friendly hybrid bus fleet, its important to consider how much fuel savings they can yield from using the hybrids, and also consider to trial a series hybrid before any decision is made.
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would love to see some fuel-cell buses here in SG..
but not some china brand plz..
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Originally posted by QX179R:
would love to see some fuel-cell buses here in SG..
but not some china brand plz..Citaro Fuel-Cell
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Originally posted by dan474:
Citaro Fuel-Cell
Missing a word there! Citaro Fuel Cell Hybrid!
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Missing a word there! Citaro Fuel Cell Hybrid!
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
While hybrids are generally termed to be environmentally friendly due to its lower fuel consumption, its quite important to compare the fuel consumption of each model on a particular route. That's because if the fuel savings does not overcome the cost in replacement of batteries, then its not really environmentally friendly anymore as the batteries do require rare minerals to produce (lithium).
Also, Parallel hybrids (both the Sunlong and Zhongtong are parallel hybrids) are generally more useful (save more fuel) on routes that do not have much start and stop operations as the fuel savings is brought about by the use of a lesser powerful engine and some electric motor assist while moving off. This is probably why sbst decided to put the hybrids on 502 instead.
Series hybrid (none at the moment) are more useful in start stop environment because they have a small diesel engine that basically always runs at peak efficiency to charge the batteries. The batteries are then used to drive the electric motors. The fuel savings are brought about by the use of a small engine which is always running at peak efficiency.
So i feel that before they buy a fleet of environmentally friendly hybrid bus fleet, its important to consider how much fuel savings they can yield from using the hybrids, and also consider to trial a series hybrid before any decision is made.
How about considering using biodiesel and CNG for some buses? For CNG buses, our PTOs can also consider setting up CNG refuelling stations inside the bus depots and can also double-up to serve their CNG taxis and earn extra income? For biodiesel, our PTOs can also consider setting up a division to collect used cooking oils from foodcourts, SFI, hawker centres etc and setting up small refinery to process them into biodiesel and use or even sell. There's a recent newspaper article about biodiesel in Singapore and it even mentioned Bedok Transport is using biodiesel for its buses. -
if use hybrid bus fleet, save diesel........
how to ask for fare increase on pretext of rising operationg costs?? -
No, out of the question. The operating cost will be higher than anything else, it will definitely be more expensive to operate. Basically, its not economical to operate this type of buses.
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
How about considering using biodiesel and CNG for some buses? For CNG buses, our PTOs can also consider setting up CNG refuelling stations inside the bus depots and can also double-up to serve their CNG taxis and earn extra income? For biodiesel, our PTOs can also consider setting up a division to collect used cooking oils from foodcourts, SFI, hawker centres etc and setting up small refinery to process them into biodiesel and use or even sell. There's a recent newspaper article about biodiesel in Singapore and it even mentioned Bedok Transport is using biodiesel for its buses.For CNG, the comments i can make is that its not really cost efficient for the two bus operator to use it, thats because diesel to them is relatively cheap still at about 80cents. CNG on the otherhand, will barely be able to beat this price. However, on the private sector side, things are alittle different because the diesel is priced much higher. In that case, CNG can become more price competitive than diesel, which is why taxis and some cars have converted to use CNG.
As for biodiesel, its a positive path as its generated from waste (relatively renewable), but when scaling to sbst + smrt's fleet of 3000 over (which each bus can take ~300l of diesel), the quantity of biodiesel that can be generated comes into question. The fuel efficiency of a blend of biodiesel+diesel is also not as high as what diesel can offer.
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Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:
No, out of the question. The operating cost will be higher than anything else, it will definitely be more expensive to operate. Basically, its not economical to operate this type of buses.
Thats not exactly true, some examples in the states (such as seattle which had a large hybrid fleet since 2007, with at least 500 now) do make use of hybrid fleets. It does hold true to the promise of fuel efficiency and save on diesel costs, but its hard to recover the additional cost of vehicle itself. Still, they are buying more hybrids.
Of course, everything should not be just about cents and dollars, we also need to do things based on a environmentally friendly and emissions point of view issnt it?
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All are welcome. It just need to be better than Sunlong and don't use Gemilang bodywork.
If SBS or SMRT use them to run Premium, I think they will gain back the cost of the bio-fuel or CNG.
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I hope bus technology will improve rapidly just like computers to produce small, compact, efficient and lightweight bus engines and bodywork to minimise fuel consumption.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
As for biodiesel, its a positive path as its generated from waste (relatively renewable), but when scaling to sbst + smrt's fleet of 3000 over (which each bus can take ~300l of diesel), the quantity of biodiesel that can be generated comes into question. The fuel efficiency of a blend of biodiesel+diesel is also not as high as what diesel can offer.
Just maintain a smaller fleet of buses using biodiesel. -
Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
I hope bus technology will improve rapidly just like computers to produce small, compact, efficient and lightweight bus engines and bodywork to minimise fuel consumption.
haha, i think a bettery analogy is planes?
Two options to go:
- better fuel consumption per passenger per (mile) km with bigger capacity (planes) vehicles
- better overall fuel efficiency with better (composites) material technology and (engine) drivetrain technology
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Originally posted by dan474:
Citaro Fuel-Cell
Hydrogen fuel-cell got hybrid meh?
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Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
Just maintain a smaller fleet of buses using biodiesel.Biodiesel can be used by existing buses that run on diesel. The exhaust will smell of fast food too. :P It could cause the growth of algae though.
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Originally posted by joeyfjj:
Hydrogen fuel-cell got hybrid meh?
yea, there is. have been in operation in germany since nov 2009. However its a limited batch of 30 vehicles meant for demonstration and testing purposes only, don't think its available commercially.
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lack of infrastructure
lack of awareness
high operating costs
lack of any significant incentives
even hybrid cars, the demand is fast waning
unless, unless, government gives such a huge subsidy such that it equals the cost of a diesel equivilant... which wont happen.. CNG will be taxed this/ next year.
any corporation will not take on this project without calculating all these..
u see the china bus rotting in NTU
u see all the trials involving electric vehicles, cars or buses..
all came with a bang, left with a whimper
untill last week, singapore only got in a handful of electric mitshubishi i to test out.. after they chased away daimler's cars some years back
now the focus is mainly on improving fuel efficiency.. not a lot on alternatives
the hunger for oil will never be reduced -
Originally posted by 105090:
lack of infrastructure
lack of awareness
high operating costs
lack of any significant incentives
even hybrid cars, the demand is fast waning
unless, unless, government gives such a huge subsidy such that it equals the cost of a diesel equivilant... which wont happen.. CNG will be taxed this/ next year.
any corporation will not take on this project without calculating all these..
u see the china bus rotting in NTU
u see all the trials involving electric vehicles, cars or buses..
all came with a bang, left with a whimper
untill last week, singapore only got in a handful of electric mitshubishi i to test out.. after they chased away daimler's cars some years back
now the focus is mainly on improving fuel efficiency.. not a lot on alternatives
the hunger for oil will never be reduced
Good.Haha!! :)) -
Bus fan only interested to see demo or handful. If buy anything bulk they will sure whine.
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I think the immaturity of the technology and costs of operating such buses still remains high. I don't think that the passengers are willingly to fork out more fares to pay for such buses.
However if the costs of such buses and operating them lowers in futre, I hope that SBST will buy a big fleet of the Mercedes Benz F cell bus.
But no China buses, I had lost confidence in them since last year's CNG bus blast.
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For hybrid buses, I think we may have to wait a few years before they start coming in. The government also needs to push ahead and set up the infrastructure needed to support these buses first as an initiative to the bus companies to bring in such buses, before we will see such buses hitting the road en masse.
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Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:
No, out of the question. The operating cost will be higher than anything else, it will definitely be more expensive to operate. Basically, its not economical to operate this type of buses.
If SBST one day decides to bring in the Citaro F cell or Volvo B5L, what will you do?