Daimler delivers the largest Asian Citaro order to date
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
engine still same mah......
But bodyworks diff a lot le.Come to think of it, the O405 & MKIII diff a lot in terms of bodywork quality.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
But bodyworks diff a lot le.Come to think of it, the O405 & MKIII diff a lot in terms of bodywork quality.
maintainence wise more of engine mah...
dun like MK3 bodywork though.. haha.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Go refer to how much SBS got the Citaro.
Yucks. Who is going to lean on the window for long? Yucks w/ the oily stain. Seriously even if 1 were to rest on a car, no one is going to lean on the window.
You buy a bus you're going to use it for 17 years. You dun maintain it like wat's going on to the bendies right now (rattle like a manual transmission as it halts). For this case those sitting at the rear row would know wat it feels like. Front carriage can't feel a thing.
No one is asking you to lean on the window for long, do it as an experiment. Windows are the best way to test if there's any vibration.
you seem to be very focused with the purchase price of the vehicle. What about maintenance costs? and Fuel consumption with the cost of fuel? im sure u know what is operational costs.
Maintenance is up to the operating company to decide on, but if the bus is already having vibration due to its design at the start of its life, who is going to care how is its condition 10 years later?
And finally, i am sure i wrote in a very polite manner. but your tone in the post seems to imply much hate, and pride.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Try this, take a KUB, any one of it, whatever batch u like. When the bus stops at a traffic light, or a bus stop, lean with your head against the window and feel the vibration. Now, after you have done that, try it on a Citaro.
It's not the price of the bus, not the age of the bus, but its tiny details like this that makes a passenger more comfortable and less pissed-off when you take a 1 hour journey to and fro every day.
Not to mention, the KUB's radiator is so annoyingly loud that it makes people have to talk louder when making a phone call in the bus.
i believe small details like this, will make people's daily commute much more bearable and comfortable.
This argument won't cut any ice with me.
You know why?
Its just a friggin bus.
Get over it.
And the KUB is comfortable.
You just have to lower your expectations.
I take 3 hours of bus rides each day, 3/4 of the time on KUBs and have adjusted well to it and found its plus points good enough.
And why in the world do you want to lean your head against the window for??? Its little details LIKE THIS (the oily stains) that PISS ME OFF to no end. Just imagine having to stare out of oil-smudged window for 3hrs.
Bottomline: There's 1100 KUBs, you cannot escape la. And do your part in being considerate to other commuters. That's more useful!
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
No one is asking you to lean on the window for long, do it as an experiment. Windows are the best way to test if there's any vibration.
you seem to be very focused with the purchase price of the vehicle. What about maintenance costs? and Fuel consumption with the cost of fuel? im sure u know what is operational costs.
Maintenance is up to the operating company to decide on, but if the bus is already having vibration due to its design at the start of its life, who is going to care how is its condition 10 years later?
And finally, i am sure i wrote in a very polite manner. but your tone in the post seems to imply much hate, and pride.
I don't get any hint of rudeness there.....I am very rude in other words.Highlighted in red: You are not doing justice to those who have worked to improve the K230UB...as many of us have concurred in another thread, this type has improved a lot over the course of time.
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Looking at the rear portion of the Citaro, seems that only one line of standing passenger is possible.
Not possible to stand two rows, as backside will be rubbing with backside or cock rubbing with the sitting passenger.
This bus will make more people to squeeze at the front and exit!!
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Try this, take a KUB, any one of it, whatever batch u like. When the bus stops at a traffic light, or a bus stop, lean with your head against the window and feel the vibration. Now, after you have done that, try it on a Citaro.
It's not the price of the bus, not the age of the bus, but its tiny details like this that makes a passenger more comfortable and less pissed-off when you take a 1 hour journey to and fro every day.
Not to mention, the KUB's radiator is so annoyingly loud that it makes people have to talk louder when making a phone call in the bus.
i believe small details like this, will make people's daily commute much more bearable and comfortable.
The vibration parts would be the window. What people mean by saying that KUB have lots of vibration is that when the bus stops, the seats will vibrate..
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Originally posted by fireice rox:
Looking at the rear portion of the Citaro, seems that only one line of standing passenger is possible.
Not possible to stand two rows, as backside will be rubbing with backside or cock rubbing with the sitting passenger.
This bus will make more people to squeeze at the front and exit!!
From what i observed, alot of people still doesn't know the last row of seats have only 4 instead of 5 seats, plus the engine cover is design below the last 2nd row of seat handles, so from the entrance, people will think there is a seat at the back, so they will move back. Indeed a very clever design for Citaro unlike MAN although it has more seats.Everytime if i take a Citaro, i will seat at the engine cover there and observe their movement to the rear. However, after the 300 Citaros are in svcs, i think they might start to stick near to the Exit instead.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
so anyone feel that SBST O405 is better than SMRT O405? or the other way round?
as for the price wise, price of buses is one issue. maintainence cost is another big issue....
i wont compare O405s though its the same engine. It has a different bodywork and largely different gearbox. interior materials mostly different though that's not a big issue.Why I would compare citaros is its the same for everything except the operator. Like in econs to compare 2 variables u must hold everything else constant and then compare the factor that is variable.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
This argument won't cut any ice with me.
You know why?
Its just a friggin bus.
Get over it.
And the KUB is comfortable.
You just have to lower your expectations.
I take 3 hours of bus rides each day, 3/4 of the time on KUBs and have adjusted well to it and found its plus points good enough.
And why in the world do you want to lean your head against the window for??? Its little details LIKE THIS (the oily stains) that PISS ME OFF to no end. Just imagine having to stare out of oil-smudged window for 3hrs.
Bottomline: There's 1100 KUBs, you cannot escape la. And do your part in being considerate to other commuters. That's more useful!
yah, at first i hate the KUBs due to the jerking and reckless driving, but after i took some of them this year, they pleased me with very smooth rides for some, although there are still room for improvements.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
so anyone feel that SBST O405 is better than SMRT O405? or the other way round?
as for the price wise, price of buses is one issue. maintainence cost is another big issue....
Cant really compare....different body-work, different AC arrangement, different engine, different gearbox. In short: Different bus.SMRT's 0405 is updated relative to the SBST one, as well as uprated. SMRT's 0405 engine is rated at 255HP as opposed to SBST's 220HP.
That's why the difference in performance is actually rather noticeable.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
This argument won't cut any ice with me.
You know why?
Its just a friggin bus.
Get over it.
And the KUB is comfortable.
You just have to lower your expectations.
I take 3 hours of bus rides each day, 3/4 of the time on KUBs and have adjusted well to it and found its plus points good enough.
And why in the world do you want to lean your head against the window for??? Its little details LIKE THIS (the oily stains) that PISS ME OFF to no end. Just imagine having to stare out of oil-smudged window for 3hrs.
Bottomline: There's 1100 KUBs, you cannot escape la. And do your part in being considerate to other commuters. That's more useful!
The KUB is comfortable when u are sitting down, but what about standees? you just need a bc to throw the acclerator once when moving off the bus stop and u can see people almost falling. 3 hours of bus ride, how much of it standing?
As i said, the most simply way to test if theres any vibration at all is using the windows, if the seats vibrate, needless to say the windows would. I am not asking anyone to lean on windows for your whole trip, but just as an experiment.
And are you sbst275? why are u replying for him then? Yes the kubs have been improved in countless ways, engine and transmission refined to use less engine braking, brake discs in E5 reduced in size for less powerful braking, better interior layouts. But, for a standing passenger, the ride is still not as comfortable.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
The KUB is comfortable when u are sitting down, but what about standees? you just need a bc to throw the acclerator once when moving off the bus stop and u can see people almost falling. 3 hours of bus ride, how much of it standing?
As i said, the most simply way to test if theres any vibration at all is using the windows, if the seats vibrate, needless to say the windows would. I am not asking anyone to lean on windows for your whole trip, but just as an experiment.
And are you sbst275? why are u replying for him then? Yes the kubs have been improved in countless ways, engine and transmission refined to use less engine braking, brake discs in E5 reduced in size for less powerful braking, better interior layouts. But, for a standing passenger, the ride is still not as comfortable.
What you are advocating is just gross. Please don't do that.
Let's put it this way. If I have a friend taking bus with me, I am far more likely to be disturbed by oil-smudges than a vibrating bus.
And: Any BC who releases the brake and zham accelerator at once will see people falling. Its no fault of the KUB.
BCs have also become accustomed to the KUB's fast responding brake-discs and have improved in their moving-off and braking. Its likely you haven't been taking KUBs recently to know this.
NUS has been using K230UBs on the fantastic slopes and all the stop-and-go operations, but I havent seen anyone fall at every stop like how you describe, despite it being crowded within campus with all the standees you attempt to sympathise with. Most, if not everyone, welcomed the introduction of the K230UB. In fact, the SC K230UB is really nice to take. You should try it. Nice comfy seats and its tuned the same way as the EEV SBST K230UBs. Very smooth.
I'm not speaking for anybody, nor any type. My take is: Its just a bus....as long as it does not cause my hair to catch fire, my eyeballs to fall off due to vibrations, or bust my eardrum due to noisy radiator during my rides, I'm cool with it.
Oh btw....you want noisy radiators? Look for some of the B10M MKIV and B9TL and B10TLs. Can't go wrong with that.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
What you are advocating is just gross. Please don't do that.
Let's put it this way. If I have a friend taking bus with me, I am far more likely to be disturbed by oil-smudges than a vibrating bus.
And: Any BC who releases the brake and zham accelerator at once will see people falling. Its no fault of the KUB.
BCs have also become accustomed to the KUB's fast responding brake-discs and have improved in their moving-off and braking. Its likely you haven't been taking KUBs recently to know this.
NUS has been using K230UBs on the fantastic slopes and all the stop-and-go operations, but I havent seen anyone fall at every stop like how you describe, despite it being crowded within campus with all the standees you attempt to sympathise with. Most, if not everyone, welcomed the introduction of the K230UB. In fact, the SC K230UB is really nice to take. You should try it. Nice comfy seats and its tuned the same way as the EEV SBST K230UBs. Very smooth.
I'm not speaking for anybody, nor any type. My take is: Its just a bus....as long as it does not cause my hair to catch fire, my eyeballs to fall off due to vibrations, or bust my eardrum due to noisy radiator during my rides, I'm cool with it.
Oh btw....you want noisy radiators? Look for some of the B10M MKIV and B9TL and B10TLs. Can't go wrong with that.
Well, throwing the acclerator is not the same as flooring the acclerator when moving off. Try throwing the clutch on a heavy vehicle, if u ever driven one before.
To add on, i dont hate taking kubs, i do like it when the ride is smooth and when the bc knows how to control his braking well. The main point im trying to say here, is that the citaro is still, a better bus in terms of comfort when compared to the kub.
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I think look no further from the example of the Dennis Trident and the VSO to see what could possibly happen in the future.
The Trident was considered a superior purchase over the VSO by virtually everyone, including myself. You can see the parallels drawn as far as criticisms levelled at the VSO was concerned: Underpowered, noisy radiator, slow....etc etc.
Now, if you ask me again, I would pick the VSO over the Trident anyday, unless I'm in the mood for novelty.
Why?
Firstly, some of these criticisms were exaggerated. The VSO is not terribly underpowered. Like the K230UB, it is just not well-endowed with power. And it wasn't like the Trident was a lot better in pick-up. Even if it was, it isn't so obvious now. As for noisy radiator......it became quiet once the B9TLs started their roar. The VSOs still sound the same after all these years....at least for most.
Secondly, the perceived virtues of the Trident were over-rated. The suspension is too soft. There are often BCs who do not appear to be comfortable driving the Trident, given its tendency to bounce and its somewhat faster acceleration, and that makes the bus ride worse. BCs tend to drive more comfortably with the VSO.
As for comfortness....the VSO wins hands down. Its also not easy to find a Trident with decent aircon, with all of its interior and exterior lights working.
All in all, the story is this: "Superior" buys can be self-perceived. Mainteinance is also vastly more important. And....give the "inferior" bus a chance....because the VSO is no longer inferior in my eyes anymore. Far from it in fact. The bashings about it not surviving TPE on 161 and 168, or not surviving the full 17 years are unfounded: The VSO is a reliable workhorse which I know usually guarantees nice aircon and suspension. The Trident? I'm not sure. 9671E's EDS backlight has been spoilt for YEARS already but nobody has gotten around to doing anything about it. *shrugs*
Of course hindsight is always 6/6. Especially when 9844Z's rear wheel fell off at Woodlands Int years ago.
As for bodywork, I have to acknowledge that the Trident has a sturdier bodywork, which also draws attention to the fact that people bash the OC500LE and K230UB's "delicate" bodywork, but nobody (these days) say anything about the possibly flimsier Volgren bodywork.
Says alot about bias sentiments eh?
Context might be different. Citaro is not likely to have the mainteinance issue faced by Tridents which illustrates economies of scale. But the moral still holds.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
so anyone feel that SBST O405 is better than SMRT O405? or the other way round?
as for the price wise, price of buses is one issue. maintainence cost is another big issue....
SMRT O405s are better. -
all new buses are good.
whether they maintained well or not makes the difference.
same for humans.
all babies are born the same. but when they become older............. -
Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I think look no further from the example of the Dennis Trident and the VSO to see what could possibly happen in the future.
The Trident was considered a superior purchase over the VSO by virtually everyone, including myself. You can see the parallels drawn as far as criticisms levelled at the VSO was concerned: Underpowered, noisy radiator, slow....etc etc.
Now, if you ask me again, I would pick the VSO over the Trident anyday, unless I'm in the mood for novelty.
Why?
Firstly, some of these criticisms were exaggerated. The VSO is not terribly underpowered. Like the K230UB, it is just not well-endowed with power. And it wasn't like the Trident was a lot better in pick-up. Even if it was, it isn't so obvious now. As for noisy radiator......it became quiet once the B9TLs started their roar. The VSOs still sound the same after all these years....at least for most.
Secondly, the perceived virtues of the Trident were over-rated. The suspension is too soft. There are often BCs who do not appear to be comfortable driving the Trident, given its tendency to bounce and its somewhat faster acceleration, and that makes the bus ride worse. BCs tend to drive more comfortably with the VSO.
As for comfortness....the VSO wins hands down. Its also not easy to find a Trident with decent aircon, with all of its interior and exterior lights working.
All in all, the story is this: "Superior" buys can be self-perceived. Mainteinance is also vastly more important. And....give the "inferior" bus a chance....because the VSO is no longer inferior in my eyes anymore. Far from it in fact. The bashings about it not surviving TPE on 161 and 168, or not surviving the full 17 years are unfounded: The VSO is a reliable workhorse which I know usually guarantees nice aircon and suspension. The Trident? I'm not sure. 9671E's EDS backlight has been spoilt for YEARS already but nobody has gotten around to doing anything about it. *shrugs*
Of course hindsight is always 6/6. Especially when 9844Z's rear wheel fell off at Woodlands Int years ago.
As for bodywork, I have to acknowledge that the Trident has a sturdier bodywork, which also draws attention to the fact that people bash the OC500LE and K230UB's "delicate" bodywork, but nobody (these days) say anything about the possibly flimsier Volgren bodywork.
Says alot about bias sentiments eh?
Context might be different. Citaro is not likely to have the mainteinance issue faced by Tridents which illustrates economies of scale. But the moral still holds.
There's a simple reason why i feel the vso still wins the trident hands down. even if the tridents was maintained with tip top condition, nothing beats the seats on the vso. It's just so comfortable!
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SBST Citaros regos will be under SBS 6XXX series. Rego plates being fixed up. Info also confirmed by BIS community contributer
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which bus depot will get them first? 6xxx humm recycle number from old bus? Leyland old DD and victory old licence plate? last time this licence under AMK Jurong and Braddell depot.
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
which bus depot will get them first? 6xxx humm recycle number from old bus? Leyland old DD and victory old licence plate? last time this licence under AMK Jurong and Braddell depot.
I would say that citaros are likely to go to those depots that need to clear off the MK3s in a few months time. -
KUBs will go there to take over those MK3 buses. Those 3 depot has history of maintenance mercedes benz buses.
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Originally posted by wsy1234:
which bus depot will get them first? 6xxx humm recycle number from old bus? Leyland old DD and victory old licence plate? last time this licence under AMK Jurong and Braddell depot.
think all the depots will get their fair share , just like the wrights ..
and internal redeployments will be done
AM/BR & SL still have some mercs to clear off , besides the MK3s in bb/ar/bn/hg ..
i remember Leyland regos 6xxx haha.. esp the lo2x .. if they use those lo2x 69XX nos again , it would be like coming back to life after 8yrs ..
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The neverending battle between SBST Hardcore and SMRTB gang again.Talk also cannot finish one.There are always passengers who like taking SBST buses and dislike SMRT buses and so on.Maintenance wise is partly about the driver itself.SBST ones especially the young do perform their first and last parade of duties which i salute them.They even dont dare to drive the buses even if the tyres are slightly bald unlike SMRT drivers which explain why some of the buses are in poor condition.Netherless if you ask me between SBST O405 and SMRT ones i choose the latter anytime anyday even if is in poor condition.Use to drive the SBST ones while they're temporary based in HG.As for SBST i see only HGDEP,AMDEP/BRBP and BBDEP/ARBP maintance their buses well and Kranji for SMRT.BNDEP & SLBP can join WLDEP and AMDEP for crap maintenance..
Ps:I got a strong feeling that SMRT will buy the facelift version of the Citaro later
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
BNDEP & SLBP can join WLDEP and AMDEP for crap maintenance..
If your comparison are done with buses with the same age then I got nothing to say. I nt sure of other depots but all reported case are attend to, if it is not a major one then it will be rectified at the end of service.