SBST's Scania KUBs : Badly misunderstood or is that bad?
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As above, are the K230UBs misunderstood or is it that bad?
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They are bad as compared to other buses, because it is quite underpowered (with even the MB O405 Mark 1 overpowering it) and the crappy bodywork.
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Misunderstood.
In acceleration, it is better than the MKIVs. The K230UB isn't very underpowered also. It just isn't well-endowed with power. I wouldn't have believed this either until I took a MKIV with my BC whacking the pedal, but was still unable to catch up with the EEV K230UB in front. Supposedly, the EEV versions tend to be more conservative with the rpm which simply implies the early K230UBs can go even faster, which was proven as well.
Suspension-wise, can't ask for more. Its hardness is just right for city-driving.
Body-wise, not bad la. But really, all I'm asking for is a bus I can sleep on and the comfy seats + leg-room + nice aircon makes the KUB the perfect bus to sleep on. The headrest is at a pretty nice height also. As for claims of koyok bodywork, the ones with so-called nice and stiff bodywork leak half the time it rains (points to WA and DM bodies). Bottomline: Mainteinance is more important.
As for jerky K230UBs, once the BC understands that the brakes should not be released quickly, and applying light pressure as the bus locks-up, the jerks are virtually eliminated. And with the early K230UBs removal of engine-braking, the K230UB is really smooth.
Conclusion: I very much prefer the early K230UBs over the EEV ones.
What I dislike: The heatwave at the rear. And the noisy radiator. But I can live with these.
Conclusion 2: Its just another bus that I know will bring me from point A to B. Period.
And gotta add also, today I experienced for the first time, the K230UB's ABS.I must say it was a really violent affair with the brakes slamming on and off *bonk bonk bonk*.
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e bodywork name already can stated it
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Originally posted by TIB770T:
They are bad as compared to other buses, because it is quite underpowered (with even the MB O405 Mark 1 overpowering it) and the crappy bodywork.
China buses are worse?
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I used to think KUBs are slow and underpowered, until I took a Euro IV on 154 driven by a malay BC. He whacked the bus like mad, a SMRT Merc desperately tried to catch up but failed. I was surprised that KUB can speed well. It was the fastest KUB I have ever taken.
The KUB can chiong if the driver wants to. Also the Euro IV ones have faster pick-up than Euro V. Some of the KUBs have sickening radiator noise, such as SBS8388E. KUBs are not that bad after all.
I am starting to like KUBs.
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Originally posted by Bus&Soccer l0v3r (VO3x 1):
e bodywork name already can stated it
Gemilang (Malay) >>>> Brilliant (English)
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Originally posted by dan474:
Gemilang (Malay) >>>> Brilliant (English)
Brilliant at failing indeed
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i only like the euro 4 kubs. they are fast, and have no problems catching up with other buses. the kubs are less jerky nowadays which make it a pleasant bus to take.
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I hate some KUBs, especially some Euro 4 ones which have screaming radiators. But they have superb acceleration. I was once on Svc 3 driven by a China BC. The bus was absolutely full to the brim but the acceleration was still breathtaking. I've never heard a KUB rev out that high. Once the turbo kicks in at max power, the great oomph delivered is shocking! But I really like the EEV KUBs the most. Just took one on Svc 27 today and it was as good as new. It was extremely quiet and the gearbox was extremely smooth, almost as good as the ones in the new Wright B9TLs.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
As for jerky K230UBs, once the BC understands that the brakes should not be released quickly, and applying light pressure as the bus locks-up, the jerks are virtually eliminated. And with the early K230UBs removal of engine-braking, the K230UB is really smooth.
Some BCs have mastered the art of KUB braking to near perfection and there is no jerk to speak off. On the other hand, there are some who makes an supposedly better EEV looks bad. Old habits die hard perhaps?
Do not know much about the technical side of things but most KUBs do vibrate alot when stationary. The roar it produces when accelerating is also an interesting point considering they are quite new.
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For those who remain unconvinced of the K230UB's potential in speed which IMO is quite eye-opening, can try 27 and 154.
Not to mention, the K230UB has an advantage with its 2nd overdrive which meant that even with speed limitor, a K230UB going downhill can exceed 70km/h without even trying hard.
As for its cousin, the K310UD, this is another chiongster. I drove 70-80km/h from CTE to Serangoon North overtaking it on 25 at the first bus-stop after CTE along AMK ave 3. Imagine my surprise when I stopped at the traffic light before the bridge at Bowen Sec and the K310UD pulled up right next to me. It also kept pace with my car rather easily up that slight slope before the bridge.
IMO, its the light body-work that allows for all these. A fully-loaded K230UB can be painfully sluggish in pick-up, especially uphill, like the VO3X batch 1. Fast when lightly-loaded, terrible to take with full load. It isn't like the B9TL which has a stable performance across any loading.
As for claims that the K230UB can't maintain speed uphill at 5th or 6th, be surprised like I was, to know that its only because the BC does not bother to increase fuel input. Even a fully-loaded K230UB can maintain 6th at 1.0k rpm, although asking it to increase its speed at that rpm is a tall order, climbing the steep inclines along PIE.
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The Euro 4 K230UBs can accerelate fast but some of them have really loud radiators. Hope SBS will do something to fine tune it. Althought the EEV KUBs are slower in acceleration, I enjoy taking them the most as they are quiet.
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Reminds me, yesterday took a 151 MK4. the china BC was already flooring the pedal on the PIE and this 154 KUB just overtake from behind. Wow! Could not see the rego though
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The K230UB's acceleration usually makes redundant the 2nd gear which can last as short as 0.5 seconds.
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KUBs are good.
Actually 1/2 is SBS's willingness to improve on the problems when they first appeared.
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The OC500LE is as rough as the K230UB in the same places, which means much of the jerks are thanks to the gearbox, especially 5th to 4th. By eliminating engine braking, the early K230UBs eliminated this problem.
The B9TL is smoother most probably because of its higher inertia.
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engine brakes are only useful when bus is coming to a total halt.
Else retarder should be good enough to slow down
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Engine brakings are good when tackling downhill terrain.
When the BC speeds his way down on the older buses, one of my fears was that the brakes may not be enough.
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it took me these pleasant rides to finally be impressed with the Scania K230UB as a citybus.
- Sunday night 9pm full trip 154 Boon Lay to Eunos (step all the way after clearing Taman Jurong crowd)
- First bus 27 from Tampines Ave 4 to Airport (everyone sleeping peacefully going to work, ride was smooth)
- 2nd or last bus 27 from hougang interchange to tampines ave 4 in 27mins. (can sell car if all bus rides are like these) -
any idea how an engine brake works?
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IMO, after being unsatisfied with KUB during the first introduction days, i would not mind to hop onto a KUB now. especially euro V. or Euro IV batch 2. Therefore i believe that it is badly misunderstood!
If the driver able to handle the bus well, the bus is able to accelerate smoothly, brake smoothly. and the engine sound will sound nicer.
Although i do agree that some of the KUB's engine and interior are CUI ttm!
As for bodywork, my comment that it is too common tat's why i find it boring.
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Originally posted by sinicker:
it took me these pleasant rides to finally be impressed with the Scania K230UB as a citybus.
- Sunday night 9pm full trip 154 Boon Lay to Eunos (step all the way after clearing Taman Jurong crowd)
- First bus 27 from Tampines Ave 4 to Airport (everyone sleeping peacefully going to work, ride was smooth)
- 2nd or last bus 27 from hougang interchange to tampines ave 4 in 27mins. (can sell car if all bus rides are like these)last car 154 - but very likely to get a EEV K230, or the last slbp E4 K230 on 154 that will depart boon lay/eunos also can.
with around 65min run time from boon lay to eunos, you can be sure the bus will fly.
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Misunderstood.
I think it was the initial configurations when they are new that made the performance of the bus so bad, like the gear tuning, the engine brake and probably the speed limiter. I believed the gears, when the buses was new, was so tightly limited that it failed to release the full potential power for each gear shift. Hence limiting the potential full power of the Scania engine. I believe that Scania buses are generally very powerful buses, even the older N113CRBs have as powerful engines like the O405s. There goes for the L series as well.
Now without the engine brakes and fine tuning of the gears, the buses feel smoother and less jerky. However some gear tuning needs to be considered for improvements as there is still limitations, which cause the engine to rumble at low speeds, during gear changes.
However I think it is the bodyworks that cause the bus to have a bad reputation. I don't think that Gemilang is suitable for the Scania engine, since their engines are mounted in a way that are quite seperate from the chassis., not sure about this but I hope someone can verify this. Even the OC500LEs are also vibrating now. I think an European bodywork like from Alexander Dennis or Wright or even Scania's own in house bodyworks can handle and cushion the vibrations of the Scania chassis and engine layouts better than Gemilang. If SBST had chosen the European bodies, most likely they might save a lot on correction costs on the bodywork.
But then during that moment of meeting the WAB bus fleet criteria and replacing the old buses which cannot be further be extended anymore, SBST had no choice but to get the Scanias. Having 1100 of the same kind is more than enough, and I hope that they can venture in other makes in future. At least they are improving the performance of the buses now, but I think that the bus is still hard and costly to maintain and also not so easy to drive as compared to other models. Based on the performance of these buses and the need of constant maintainance costs of these buses, I have doubts that the model might not fully serving its 17 years lifespan.
Right now, they should address the issue of the radiator noise by installing some insulators and also the air con. Some of the older KUBs, especially the EEVs had weak air cons.
However I am still puzzled by their decision of purchase that time. Why choose the K series which uses longitudinally engine that takes up more space and hence the higher aisle at the rear where the N series can save more space in the interior with its transversely mounted engine?
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Originally posted by Bus&Soccer l0v3r (VO3x 1):
e bodywork name already can stated it
a lot of bus fans does not like KUB just because of its Gemilang bodywork... they simply dun like malaysia brands... the bodyworks must be branded....
