Originally posted by off_service:If you are saying TPE will jam, what's the point of even amending 965 as you've said?
The TPE Jam in the morning happens between the SGK - PSR sector only.
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:Please note that you're not the only person who "commutes frequently" on 858. I have a couple of friends that live in Sembawang that are currently doing part-time jobs at the Airport. For them travelling to the Airport currently can be a nightmare. 859 waiting times are not very good during off-peak and they have to mix with Yishun passengers at Blk 923 bus stop for 858. They can of course go to Woodlands and take 168 and transfer again, but because they are not using concessionary travel it means paying alot more. Just because Sembawang seems cut off from the other parts of Singapore doesn't mean it should not benefit from a direct route to the Airport, should it?
The very purpose of Jalan Kayu is to serve as an interchange point. 858 > 39 brings Sembawang residents to Pasir Ris in no time. 858 > 103 brings them to Serangoon straight, changing to 86 brings them to Ang Mo Kio or Sengkang. If you omit Jalan Kayu as an interchange point, then where do you expect them to change buses?
And lastly, the small diversion into KTP hospital does not take 10 minutes, seriously. I wonder how you estimate it to be 10 minutes. -___-" The most it would do is 5 minutes, probably 3 minutes on average.
So that is why I proposed the extension of 965 to Sembawang instead, so that Sembawang commuters can have a more variety of choices, and faster choices to the East. They can have choices to the airport with 27, Pasir Ris with 89, Hougang with 27, 80, Serangoon with 82. 965 frequencies can be improved if they added 2 buses to it. I never say that to leave Sembawang residents out of any improvements.
Extending 858 lenghtens the trips of Woodlands residents to the airport by at least another 25 mins, given the worst case scenarios, and it will even be worse for Yishun residents when the bus reached Yishun Central, which the bus might be 3/4 full. Worst case, how about those in Khatib??? If 858 is a lower demand service like 965, then I have no issues. But most of the times, during the morning peak, the bus is almost full in Khatib bus stop. So affecting residents in Woodlands and Yishun only makes things worse for 858, which presently cannot really cope the demands during peak hours.
Lastly, the small extension to KTP hospital.
If given the worst case scenario, extended 858 moves from bus stop outside Yishun Central Park, turns into the slip road into Yishun Central, but stops for around 10 to 20 seconds for vehicles turning into Yishun Central from Yishun Ave 2. Then just in time the red light signals up at the junction of Yishun Central and Yishun Central 2, wait around 60 secs. Then another 10 to 20 seconds to wait for passing oncoming vehicles, crossing pedestrains before negotiating the turn into Yishun Central 2. Stops at the bus stop for about 1-3 mins for alighting/boarding passengers. Then just in time the red light signals up at the junction of Yishun Ring Road. Another 60 secs gone. Then another 10 to 20 seconds to wait for passing oncoming vehicles, crossing pedestrains before negotiating the turn into Yishun Ring Road. Approaching the slip road towards Yishun Ave 2, a lot of times many inconsiderate private buses and cabs like to stop outside BLK 602, especially during morning peaks, buses along Yishun Ave 2 jammed up. Suppose this happened, 1 854 bendy, 1 969 bendy and 1 811 bendy got stuck behind. High possibility that the slip road may be blocked. then 858 may have to wait for another 30 secs to 2 mins to be out on Yishun Ave 2. And all these are just waiting times and not the times that the bus moved. So it takes around 10 mins, and 12 mins if BC is ahead of schedule.
Originally posted by RU4127T:Instead of making 858 go round and round, what they should have done was to come up with a new inter-town service instead.
That would be a most straightforward and most welcomed solution. But I doubt there's resources for a new service.
Originally posted by off_service:If you are saying TPE will jam, what's the point of even amending 965 as you've said?
You are saying that a transfer from 965 at Sengkang to the East is faster, given that the frequencies of buses at Sengkang to East isn't that good as well. Not to mention 965 can have even worse frequency than 858.
From your reply I really don't see that you "appreciate" the amendment, or even thinking of Sembawang residents. Your first line of "what are they thinking" already strongly suggest you are faulting the amendment.
I suggest you can talk to the people who had fought for the convenience of the Sembawang residents and bring up your grievance. Hopefully they will be able to convince you. Simply because I know the rest of us can't.
Do you know where is the place that TPE is normally jammed during peak hours???
The stretch between exits of Punggol Road and Pasir Ris, because most vehicles will be moving from Sengkang/Punggol to TPE / KPE exit, because many Sengkang residents are using KPE. 965 stops TPE before this jam, since it exits at Punggol Road exit.
If 965 is given the extension, shouldn't the frequencies be improved??? Currently, 858 and 965 has more or less the same frequencies, with 965 have 1-2 mins longer average waiting times. However, current 858 has already much higher loading capacities than what is happening for 965. So which can have a better management of higher demand if given 2 additional buses??? 858 or 965???
My objective is that extension is good provided that the journey time is not lengthen for the already long run time and increase the load where the load is already not managable.
Originally posted by RU4127T:The TPE Jam in the morning happens between the SGK - PSR sector only.
Yes. So in Vicamour's solution of extending 965 to Sembawang, no matter you take the amended 858 straight or transfer to a bus to the east at Sengkang, either way the jam will affect the journey.
Originally posted by vicamour:
FYI, I am a frequent commuter of 858, especially to Woodlands Ave 9. So that's why I proposed the 965 amendment, since it has the lowest passenger capacity and shortest fare stages for 858, 965 and 969. And travelling in 858 from Changi Airport already takes more than an hour (Yishun at least 40 mins), even if the BCs have speeded along TPE. Demand and traffic conditions are especially high along Yishun Ave 2, Chong Pang and Woodlands. Especially during evening peak, the queues in Changi Airport can be two times longer than the queue along the normal ones, and waiting times can be up to 13 to 15 mins. Worst still, TPE along Sengkang can be jammed for some days in the morning peak.Proposal of 965 also gives Sembawang residents another faster choice to the east and so they can choose a variety of services to the East and Northeast. In addition, it does not call at Jln Kayu bus stops, which is faster.
And initially I also thought of service 811, Khatib bound route to extended to the new hospital, leaving from Yishun Central, Yishun Central 2, Yishun Ring Rd and proceed to Yishun Ave 2. The extended route looks too intentionally to be re routed to the new hospital, which can at least increase the whole trip by another 10 to 12 minutes, given that it has to cross 2 traffic lights, 1 bus stop and 2 slip roads.
I appreciate the improvements, so I took the initative to even map out the roads to propose a better alternative than 858. I give my suggestions with supporting claims because I am a frequent commuter on 858, not empty talks.
It's already good that they are amending 858 to serve a town(Sembawang) that is not that well linked with other places. I'm sure that Sembawang residence are happy. Just a little admendment and you're whining like a little kid. I sometimes commute on 858 and i think it won't kill your butt just to sit a little longer. Appreciate at the fact that SMRT is doing something. By amending, i'm sure ridership will go up and they will probably add more buses to serve it's route. You can't blame traffic jams in the first place. It's unpredictable.
Go talk to the MP about this and maybe he would convice you. Still not happy, write down to SMRT.
Originally posted by vicamour:Do you know where is the place that TPE is normally jammed during peak hours???
The stretch between exits of Punggol Road and Pasir Ris, because most vehicles will be moving from Sengkang/Punggol to TPE / KPE exit, because many Sengkang residents are using KPE. 965 stops TPE before this jam, since it exits at Punggol Road exit.
If 965 is given the extension, shouldn't the frequencies be improved??? Currently, 858 and 965 has more or less the same frequencies, with 965 have 1-2 mins longer average waiting times. However, current 858 has already much higher loading capacities than what is happening for 965. So which can have a better management of higher demand if given 2 additional buses??? 858 or 965???
Yes. So IF I transfer bus at Sengkang to go East, I WILL STILL be stuck in the jam RIGHT?
The main idea of the 858 amendment is to go East, NOT Sengkang. There's more than enough efficient ways to go Sengkang from the North.
Originally posted by off_service:That would be a most straightforward and most welcomed solution. But I doubt there's resources for a new service.
Well..
I would not comment about the resources that SMRT might have.
But the feeling that they are giving me is that they are being forced to do it.
To put it in a very blunt way,
its a half-f***ed effort on their side.
Originally posted by vicamour:Do you know where is the place that TPE is normally jammed during peak hours???
The stretch between exits of Punggol Road and Pasir Ris, because most vehicles will be moving from Sengkang/Punggol to TPE / KPE exit, because many Sengkang residents are using KPE. 965 stops TPE before this jam, since it exits at Punggol Road exit.
If 965 is given the extension, shouldn't the frequencies be improved??? Currently, 858 and 965 has more or less the same frequencies, with 965 have 1-2 mins longer average waiting times. However, current 858 has already much higher loading capacities than what is happening for 965. So which can have a better management of higher demand if given 2 additional buses??? 858 or 965???My objective is that extension is good provided that the journey time is not lengthen for the already long run time and increase the load where the load is already not managable.
So what makes you think that 858 would not receive additional buses due to the extension? If you strongly believe that 965 should receive 2 more buses if it is extended, then I also strongly believe that 858 will receive 2 more buses given it is already extended.
AND like you said, 858's frequency would be improved. But thats dependent on whether you can see that it is improved or not - that's a different story altogether.
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
So what makes you think that 858 would not receive additional buses due to the extension? If you strongly believe that 965 should receive 2 more buses if it is extended, then I also strongly believe that 858 will receive 2 more buses given it is already extended.AND like you said, 858's frequency would be improved. But thats dependent on whether you can see that it is improved or not - that's a different story altogether.
I believe the concern now its not about freq but whether 858 can now handle the new extra load.
Originally posted by RU4127T:I believe the concern now its not about freq but whether 858 can now handle the new extra load.
I take 858 very often and I'm confident it is able to. Currently most of the loads come from Blk 923 bus stop, whereby both Sembawang and Yishun passengers board the bus towards Airport. At the same time though, many people from Woodlands alight at this bus stop to go elsewhere.
Extending this to Sembawang should affect the loading very minimally, since the passenger loading at Blk 923 is due to passengers from both towns boarding; extending the options of where to board is meant to give commuters more travel options instead of having to travel all the way to Yishun from Sembawang just for the bus to Airport.
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
I take 858 very often and I'm confident it is able to. Currently most of the loads come from Blk 923 bus stop, whereby both Sembawang and Yishun passengers board the bus towards Airport. At the same time though, many people from Woodlands alight at this bus stop to go elsewhere.Extending this to Sembawang should affect the loading very minimally, since the passenger loading at Blk 923 is due to passengers from both towns boarding; extending the options of where to board is meant to give commuters more travel options instead of having to travel all the way to Yishun from Sembawang just for the bus to Airport.
You may be a regular communter on 858. But i'm rather sure you are not a regular on a 858 during morning peak hours.
Originally posted by off_service:Yes. So IF I transfer bus at Sengkang to go East, I WILL STILL be stuck in the jam RIGHT?
The main idea of the 858 amendment is to go East, NOT Sengkang. There's more than enough efficient ways to go Sengkang from the North.
You still don't understand from the persepective of the current commuters taking 858 from Woodlands, which means longer travelling time, and current commuters taking 858 from Yishun, which means higher possibility of more squeezing into the bus or even can't board the bus. And also those commuters in Jalan Kayu, if they are affected. TIBS introduced 858 is for the convinence of Woodlands residents to travel to the airport within 1 hour. Extending it so more will only make the trip longer.
If I would say no to this extension at all for Sembawang residents, yes, that will be unfair. So I proposed the 965 extension so that Sembawang commuters have an alternative to the east as well. However extending 858 to Sembawang, given the current situation of the service, will only means more inconvinence to Woodlands AND Yishun commuters.
If given to the logic to provide all residents in SMRT areas to the airport, then might as well extend 858 to Chua Chu Kang and Bukit Batok. And SBST should just merge 27, 34 and 53 together and make some adjustments to let commuters in Bishan, Ang Mo Kio, Hougang, Sengkang, Punggol, Tampines and Pasir Ris to travel to the airport within one service. Why bother introduce 3 services???
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
So what makes you think that 858 would not receive additional buses due to the extension? If you strongly believe that 965 should receive 2 more buses if it is extended, then I also strongly believe that 858 will receive 2 more buses given it is already extended.AND like you said, 858's frequency would be improved. But thats dependent on whether you can see that it is improved or not - that's a different story altogether.
Currently, 858 and 965 has more or less the same frequencies, with 965 have 1-2 mins longer average waiting times. However, current 858 has already much higher loading capacities than what is happening for 965. So which can have a better management of higher demand if given 2 additional buses??? 858 or 965???
Obviously you don't understand my question. Never mind.
Originally posted by RU4127T:You may be a regular communter on 858. But i'm rather sure you are not a regular on a 858 during morning peak hours.
How sure are you on that?
Originally posted by vicamour:You still don't understand from the persepective of the current commuters taking 858 from Woodlands, which means longer travelling time, and current commuters taking 858 from Yishun, which means higher possibility of more squeezing into the bus or even can't board the bus. And also those commuters in Jalan Kayu, if they are affected. TIBS introduced 858 is for the convinence of Woodlands residents to travel to the airport within 1 hour. Extending it so more will only make the trip longer.
If I would say no to this extension at all for Sembawang residents, yes, that will be unfair. So I proposed the 965 extension so that Sembawang commuters have an alternative to the east as well. However extending 858 to Sembawang, given the current situation of the service, will only means more inconvinence to Woodlands AND Yishun commuters.If given to the logic to provide all residents in SMRT areas to the airport, then might as well extend 858 to Chua Chu Kang and Bukit Batok. And SBST should just merge 27, 34 and 53 together and make some adjustments to let commuters in Bishan, Ang Mo Kio, Hougang, Sengkang, Punggol, Tampines and Pasir Ris to travel to the airport within one service. Why bother introduce 3 services???
why not just wait and see how it goes. Too early to make assumptions.
SMRT should just extend all three =.=
Originally posted by vicamour:You still don't understand from the persepective of the current commuters taking 858 from Woodlands, which means longer travelling time, and current commuters taking 858 from Yishun, which means higher possibility of more squeezing into the bus or even can't board the bus. And also those commuters in Jalan Kayu, if they are affected. TIBS introduced 858 is for the convinence of Woodlands residents to travel to the airport within 1 hour. Extending it so more will only make the trip longer.
If I would say no to this extension at all for Sembawang residents, yes, that will be unfair. So I proposed the 965 extension so that Sembawang commuters have an alternative to the east as well. However extending 858 to Sembawang, given the current situation of the service, will only means more inconvinence to Woodlands AND Yishun commuters.If given to the logic to provide all residents in SMRT areas to the airport, then might as well extend 858 to Chua Chu Kang and Bukit Batok. And SBST should just merge 27, 34 and 53 together and make some adjustments to let commuters in Bishan, Ang Mo Kio, Hougang, Sengkang, Punggol, Tampines and Pasir Ris to travel to the airport within one service. Why bother introduce 3 services???
The extended part in Sembawang will be cleared fast. The route it takes only about 4 stops are likely to have boarding/alighting activities, based on existing services in the area.
I always take 858 from Woodlands. Why not benefit more people with a short detour rather than to go all the way via Gambas? I've asked a few persons living in Woodlands about this. Most of them have no qualms about it.
The main reason behind this amendment is a direct service from Sembawang to the Eastern side of Singapore and the new Khoo Teck Puat Hospital. Direct means no transfer.
Originally posted by jayh272416:SMRT should just extend all three =.=
969 cannot due to capacity issues. 965 I'm not sure why. But if say all 3 extend, the number of services between Sembawang and Yishun are just overwhelming.
Originally posted by vicamour:
Currently, 858 and 965 has more or less the same frequencies, with 965 have 1-2 mins longer average waiting times. However, current 858 has already much higher loading capacities than what is happening for 965. So which can have a better management of higher demand if given 2 additional buses??? 858 or 965???Obviously you don't understand my question. Never mind.
965 does not provide a direct link to the East.
Cool down :o...The amendment hasn't even took place yet and who knows what SMRT will do to improve the frequency or cope with the (new) load?
And...Sengkang is in the North Eastern part of Singapore the last time I checked.
I believe its a simple solution, they should ply more services to use that portion.
Originally posted by RU4127T:Instead of making 858 go round and round, what they should have done was to come up with a new inter-town service instead.
wait the bus "kang kang"...
Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
So what makes you think that 858 would not receive additional buses due to the extension? If you strongly believe that 965 should receive 2 more buses if it is extended, then I also strongly believe that 858 will receive 2 more buses given it is already extended.AND like you said, 858's frequency would be improved. But thats dependent on whether you can see that it is improved or not - that's a different story altogether.
second that. route extensions usually come with fleet additions.
IMO. I'm very glad to hear that SV858 had amend its route to serve ppl of the north better. Of Cause with this amendment i would hope fleet addition and runtime extension is not that long (:
In additional, I totally agrees to one of the psot above that mention that the bus stop that SV858 calls at Jln Kayu. This is very impt interchange point for SV858. Cause fyi, ppl living in w'land that travelling towards CGA usually (i mean usually), will take 168 > 858 cause they find it quicker. Similar for me if i gg to woodlands from CGA.
Final words. Cnt wait to take newly amendment of SV858 ((: