Cross border Services to be doubled?
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Originally posted by TIB1232Z:
And if people were to feel sad for me, feel free to go ahead. I feel even sadder that you cannot appreciate public transport in Singapore - you probably need to see a psychologist for your mental problems before you go mad. And stop giving that stupid stance that SMRT has done nothing recently - I myself know what they have been doing and I appreciate it. But can you? Some people just don't see the bigger picture of everything because their brain is so pea-sized-small and cannot see anything beyond today.
I appreciate public transport in Singapore. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
Originally posted by off_service:Most people who gave the most comments (in general) about "poor SMRT standards" are usually those who are not living in areas controlled by SMRT areas. I wonder if anyone notices that.
Even if the services rendered are bad, SMRT will most likely to get you to the destination despite your cursing and swearing under your breath or in your heart. I don't think anyone can deny that.
I live in an area well served by SMRT Buses. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
P.S. They're everyday sights, nothing special.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
I appreciate public transport in Singapore. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
I live in an area well served by SMRT Buses. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
P.S. They're everyday sights, nothing special.
OCs can take up more then 90 passenger :D
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
I appreciate public transport in Singapore. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
I live in an area well served by SMRT Buses. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
P.S. They're everyday sights, nothing special.
I went to Hong Kong the other day. Compared with Hong Kong, Singapore bus services are mediocore.
Crowded with people, noisy and poor frequencies. I think Singapore bus system is one of the worst amongst developed countries. -
I think the main problem for now is to educate the commuters like me.
Campaign should not be off and on and make it constant.
Remind people not to eat in the bus (quite a common sight) if someone accidentally spilled it on the floor. Who suffers? The Bus Captain need to clear up the mess
Remind people to move to the rear and not crowding around the exit door (as if, it would run away) [E.g. Sv 184 Bendies, most of the commuters like to crowd around the first exit door leaving the trailer to be empty and the front to be packed to the door.
Perhaps if this scenario occured, Bus Captain can allow a few passengers to tap the card at the front before boarding from the exit door or having the bus captain or some sensible commuters to encourage people to move to the rear.
I know sometimes it might be difficult as perhaps the I am alighting at the next stop or the stop that I stopped, not many get down and I need to squeeze all my way through...
Placing of bag on the seats....
Not giving up seats to those needy....
and the list could go on and on...
What may happened in the future?
Common for people to smoke in the bus and train? -
Originally posted by TIB930Z:
might as well just put a new line from Kranji to Larkin Terminal , SMRT & Malaysia Railways join hands , no matter how many service you put , no point, it's about frequency and efficiency
put new MRT line? imagine 1000 pax per train reaching the custom... all alighted and queue up to clear Sin custom and then alight again to clear Malaysia custom..
also, no point putting new bus services to JB as well, unless they resolve the check point jam issue... Sv170X got so many buses and yet due to custom jam, sometime there are no buses to pick up pax at Kranji MRT (esp during peak period).. -
Originally posted by lemon1974:
put new MRT line? imagine 1000 pax per train reaching the custom... all alighted and queue up to clear Sin custom and then alight again to clear Malaysia custom..
also, no point putting new bus services to JB as well, unless they resolve the check point jam issue... Sv170X got so many buses and yet due to custom jam, sometime there are no buses to pick up pax at Kranji MRT (esp during peak period)..New train line? Seriously? The Tanjong Pagar-Woodlands Immigration Checkpoint issue is not even ressolved!
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
LTA always says that trains and buses are meant to compliment each other and give people more "choices". Exactly what choices do I have in the scenario above.
choices is like this.
3 buses to nearest MRT station from home.
1 train ride to destination station.
4 buses to intended destination from MRT station.
hence, you have 3 x 1 x 4 = 12 choices.
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i use both public transport and the car.
when do i use the car?
- no quick, direct way to get there via train/bus.
- need to carry heavy loads.
- need to get to a few places to get things done.
when do i take the bus/mrt?
- when parking at intended destination is expensive/scarce
- ERP is involved
- roads there are jam-packed but there's bus lanes/MRT to get me there faster.
it's a balance i achieve. it's a choice i make to the best of my knowledge. soon, i hope to have a motorcycle. then, i can use either method to serve me best. i don't think we can rely on only one way for your entire life, can you?
for me staying in tampines, i always take 168 > 950 to JB. it has served me well. fastest ever was 1hr15mins to reach city square. -
Originally posted by sbst275:
I think it's to be agreed on to be done next year. But I wonder how far would it materialise.
In the first place at Kranji which I noticed today, only 160 & 170 have passengers. CW1 dun have much passengers boarding (unless its opp Kranji MRT Stn bus stop and 160 or 170 does not arrive as yet).
Anyway it seems Handal Indah is even allowing passengers to pay the bus fares in RM when boarding CW1 at Kranji!!!!
Board in Singapore, must pay in SGD. Board in JB of couese pay in RM, dun tell me Handal Indah allow ppl to pay in SGD at JB? 
Woodlands side 950 demand is quite average if taking into consideration the freq, but not only driver never asked ppl to move in, he just closed the entrance w/o even checking are there ppl at the entrance door. Typical SMRT handling of passengers be it buses or MRT
MALAYSIA BOLEH
if CW1 uses ez-link card the demand will shoot up. -
Originally posted by AEW5001:
if CW1 uses ez-link card the demand will shoot up.
yeah...but i dun think much will change n they wont....the conductor at kranji station shouting so much then only 3-4 ppl come... -
Originally posted by sgbuses:
I appreciate public transport in Singapore. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
I live in an area well served by SMRT Buses. For the man-in-the-street, well I'm not so sure.
P.S. They're everyday sights, nothing special.
For this really, I have to say be glad that we do not need to cram ourselves on the roof of buses just to travel from one destination to another unlike in the rural countries. At least we have a proper place to stand and sit on the buses here.
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Originally posted by TIB1049L:
For this really, I have to say be glad that we do not need to cram ourselves on the roof of buses just to travel from one destination to another unlike in the rural countries. At least we have a proper place to stand and sit on the buses here.
But at least those people didn't have to pay for their fare!
(If climbing over for a ride is actually legal, some people might actually do that!)
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Originally posted by SBS7382C:
yeah...but i dun think much will change n they wont....the conductor at kranji station shouting so much then only 3-4 ppl come...only during peak hours when 170X queue is long, then u will see ppl boarding CW1.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
It all boils down whether the authorities that wants to make the depots DD friendly. If LTA is really serious about vamping up the public bus services here, it should have helped SMRT to build or upgrade depots to be DD friendly, since they are the one who ban bendy buses in the first place. By clipping SMRT's choice of large capacity buses, LTA should at least help to allow their depots to take in the only choice of larger capacity buses, which is the DDs.
And who says that only SBST can buy DDs only??? Is there a law that states that SBST is the only operator that can buy DDs??? And take note that the bus stops along the Woodlands MRT lines are DD friendly and they are built a decade back, and they are in the so called "non SBST territory". However to the purchase of DDs for SMRT eventually, it still depends on the company itself, which I am rather unhappy of the thought that the company itself also have that kind of screwed mindset, just like some of the people here who thinks that SBST can only buy DDs and SMRT can only buy bendy buses.
Another good example of LTA half hearted efforts in listening to commuters' feedbacks/suggestions/complaints and improving public bus system, is the WAB bus episode. As discussed in a thread long ago, LTA half hearted approaches causes a lot of unhappiness for wheelchair bound bus commuters, simply the reason, the bus stop cannot cater for them, since it is WAB bus unfriendly. Bus operators took a serious and faster approach to buy in bulk of such WAB buses, but till then or even now, not even 80% of the bus stops here are WAB bus friendly, where bus operators have almost 40% to 60% WAB buses in their fleet, and in the next few years. Worse still, their declared WAB services are not even 30% of all the bus services in Singapore. If they are really serious about making public buses friendly to wheelchair bound commuters, they should have at least complete the works of upgrading at least 90% of bus stops here by now to be WAB bus and wheelchair bound friendly. I don't even see the need to declare WAB bus services, just allow the wheelchair bound passengers to board the bus whenever available. Instead they rather waste the money and time to install the poorly designed bus number poles islandwide first.
Last good example, Changi Airport bus terminal. If LTA is serious about public buses, why is the design of Changi Airport bus terminal DD/bendy bus unfriendly??? It is either the narrow roads or else the limited heights. All these aspects are controllable and adjustable, but again LTA simply won't care. Why make the bus terminal underground anyway??? Is there something disgraceful about public buses???
Just look at other airports, like the ones in Hong Kong, DDs can ply without constraints, that is called world class transportation, one of the open eye to foreigners when they first stepped into a country. If Changi Airport is really public bus friendly, SBST do not need to deploy so many manpower and buses in services 24 and 27 and DDs can ply on these services for a more optimum operations. Same goes to 858, people will have more chances for a seat in a bendy bus, rather to squeeze in a single deck.
1st thing - why should LTA help SMRT to pay for the upgrading of bus depots to accomodate DD? This is a commercial entity . and SMRT is making money from the train operation and thus SMRT should be deciding on whether they wan to upgrade their own depots or not. Also, the lease for KJDEP/AMDEP are only a few years left. So they might instead build a new depot with DD friendly facilities. also If that is the case, then SBST will be asking LTA to help to foot the bill of building new bus depot?
2nd thing - WAB issues... it is not just the upgrading of bus stops. The access to the bus stops are another issue. No point upgrade bus stops to make it WAB friendly but in the end the PIW cant even get to the bus stop from his/her house.. Ramp/slopes have to build and all the pavement remake etc etc... It is not just one bus stop involved... They would need time to review the environment/structure around ALL THE BUS STOPS, then decide on where/how/what to build/improve/repair etc etc and have to discuss with town council/HDB and various dept?.... and then have to call for tenders and work then can begin..
all these involved 4500 bus stops? not just one bus stop. Cost also have to be considered when several years back, the construction cost raised so high due to economy boom and sand /concrete shortage etc etc. as far as i am concerned , now most of the bus stops are WAB friendly (except for certain interchanges).. but is the access to the bus stop/interchanges that is the issue..
3rd point - Changi Airport Bus terminal - Terminal 1 was build in late 1970 and open on 1981. At that time, TIBS does not even exist.. how do LTA (that time LTA also never exist?, only got ROV and maybe ministry of transport?) know that TIBS and/or SMRT will buy bendy buses which come in Mid 90? That time Aircon buses also not yet introduce also... when they build Terminal 1, they have already have plan to build terminal 2 and reserve the land for terminal 3/4 as well. They do know that land is limited and therefore they cant accomodate everything above ground. Thus they have decided to build the underground bus terminal to save space.Also at that time, only got some NAC DD plying certain services only and no bendy buses at all.. So their plan is to accomodate just normal buses for the terminal.
Further, for HK airport , which opened in late 1990, they have big reclaimed area for them to build a world class airport terminal with open air bus terminal as well. HK have been using DDs for quite some time and thus they have taken into consideration on this when building the new airport terminal.. Further, if want to compare, then compare the bus fares of HK airport bus services (AIRBUS) which charge HK33 per trip to go into residential /city area(roughly S$6+) compare to our normal bus fare? also, i believe that our previous AIRBUS (which is in similar fare bands to HK Airbus) also stop at the departure/arrival hall previously?
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
1st thing - why should LTA help SMRT to pay for the upgrading of bus depots to accomodate DD? This is a commercial entity . and SMRT is making money from the train operation and thus SMRT should be deciding on whether they wan to upgrade their own depots or not. Also, the lease for KJDEP/AMDEP are only a few years left. So they might instead build a new depot with DD friendly facilities. also If that is the case, then SBST will be asking LTA to help to foot the bill of building new bus depot?
2nd thing - WAB issues... it is not just the upgrading of bus stops. The access to the bus stops are another issue. No point upgrade bus stops to make it WAB friendly but in the end the PIW cant even get to the bus stop from his/her house.. Ramp/slopes have to build and all the pavement remake etc etc... It is not just one bus stop involved... They would need time to review the environment/structure around ALL THE BUS STOPS, then decide on where/how/what to build/improve/repair etc etc and have to discuss with town council/HDB and various dept?.... and then have to call for tenders and work then can begin..
all these involved 4500 bus stops? not just one bus stop. Cost also have to be considered when several years back, the construction cost raised so high due to economy boom and sand /concrete shortage etc etc. as far as i am concerned , now most of the bus stops are WAB friendly (except for certain interchanges).. but is the access to the bus stop/interchanges that is the issue..
3rd point - Changi Airport Bus terminal - Terminal 1 was build in late 1970 and open on 1981. At that time, TIBS does not even exist.. how do LTA (that time LTA also never exist?, only got ROV and maybe ministry of transport?) know that TIBS and/or SMRT will buy bendy buses which come in Mid 90? That time Aircon buses also not yet introduce also... when they build Terminal 1, they have already have plan to build terminal 2 and reserve the land for terminal 3/4 as well. They do know that land is limited and therefore they cant accomodate everything above ground. Thus they have decided to build the underground bus terminal to save space.Also at that time, only got some NAC DD plying certain services only and no bendy buses at all.. So their plan is to accomodate just normal buses for the terminal.
Further, for HK airport , which opened in late 1990, they have big reclaimed area for them to build a world class airport terminal with open air bus terminal as well. HK have been using DDs for quite some time and thus they have taken into consideration on this when building the new airport terminal.. Further, if want to compare, then compare the bus fares of HK airport bus services (AIRBUS) which charge HK33 per trip to go into residential /city area(roughly S$6+) compare to our normal bus fare? also, i believe that our previous AIRBUS (which is in similar fare bands to HK Airbus) also stop at the departure/arrival hall previously?
1. LTA serves as a connection between the commercial public transport companies and commuters, therefore why shouldn't they subsidise if not foot the bill to house DDs? If they are not helping commuters out, then their existence as the connection is pretty much meaningless. Again, not everything should be seen from the perspective of profitability from the government, then again, I'm also pretty sure if SMRT can take in DDs, their profits might even be better consolidated. So...when are we going to start?2. Once again, must we wait for something to happen before we start anything? Remembering that everything has a lag-time, when the places become wheel-chair acessible, then the bus-stops become the let-down? Ok, admittedly this is bureaucratic red-tape, so nothing really much can be done. Discussions, blue-prints, etc etc. If it could be faster, of course it would be merrier.
3. No comments. But I'm sure if LTA wanted to do anything about it, it could be done...
The bigger picture: Is S'pore really democratic (ignore politics first)? A lot of decisions made by companies have profound impacts on our lives. Yet they are not accountable to us because they are "commercial entities". Therein lies the main problems of privatisation. Is nationalisation that bad? Some nationalised companies actually turn in profits, and tend to be indispensible in certain industries. Sadly the government seems to be believing more in free-market theories, even our defense is being increasingly privatised, to what end we will not know and hopefully will never find out. Public transport is but one aspect where we do not get a say.
If everything is about profits, and profits are supposed to translate to cost-savings, then as Mr Chee asked: Where did our $$ go?
Ok, this is not supposed to be a govt bashing post, it's just meant as a response to the above replies and would greatly appreciate more discussions on this.
In fact, I was reminded of how well our place has been planned, looking down from the 13th level of the National Library yesterday, the roads were well-paved, the traffic was running like clockwork. The sight was pretty spell-bounding actually and I ended up looking down from there for half an hour in fascination.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
3rd point - Changi Airport Bus terminal - Terminal 1 was build in late 1970 and open on 1981. At that time, TIBS does not even exist.. how do LTA (that time LTA also never exist?, only got ROV and maybe ministry of transport?) know that TIBS and/or SMRT will buy bendy buses which come in Mid 90? That time Aircon buses also not yet introduce also... when they build Terminal 1, they have already have plan to build terminal 2 and reserve the land for terminal 3/4 as well. They do know that land is limited and therefore they cant accomodate everything above ground. Thus they have decided to build the underground bus terminal to save space.Also at that time, only got some NAC DD plying certain services only and no bendy buses at all.. So their plan is to accomodate just normal buses for the terminal.
Further, for HK airport , which opened in late 1990, they have big reclaimed area for them to build a world class airport terminal with open air bus terminal as well. HK have been using DDs for quite some time and thus they have taken into consideration on this when building the new airport terminal.. Further, if want to compare, then compare the bus fares of HK airport bus services (AIRBUS) which charge HK33 per trip to go into residential /city area(roughly S$6+) compare to our normal bus fare? also, i believe that our previous AIRBUS (which is in similar fare bands to HK Airbus) also stop at the departure/arrival hall previously?
That's pretty true, HK had a chance to design from scratch for their new airport wherelse we have to live with the constrains. But if one compares the old HK airport with T1 here, the old HK airport could not take in DDs too. That was why the kmb lances was bought to serve the old HK airport during their time.
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Causeway-Link Buses bus fare is higher than the Ez-Link card fare. I think thats why people take 160/170/950 as the fare is lower.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
1st thing - why should LTA help SMRT to pay for the upgrading of bus depots to accomodate DD? This is a commercial entity . and SMRT is making money from the train operation and thus SMRT should be deciding on whether they wan to upgrade their own depots or not. Also, the lease for KJDEP/AMDEP are only a few years left. So they might instead build a new depot with DD friendly facilities. also If that is the case, then SBST will be asking LTA to help to foot the bill of building new bus depot?
2nd thing - WAB issues... it is not just the upgrading of bus stops. The access to the bus stops are another issue. No point upgrade bus stops to make it WAB friendly but in the end the PIW cant even get to the bus stop from his/her house.. Ramp/slopes have to build and all the pavement remake etc etc... It is not just one bus stop involved... They would need time to review the environment/structure around ALL THE BUS STOPS, then decide on where/how/what to build/improve/repair etc etc and have to discuss with town council/HDB and various dept?.... and then have to call for tenders and work then can begin..
all these involved 4500 bus stops? not just one bus stop. Cost also have to be considered when several years back, the construction cost raised so high due to economy boom and sand /concrete shortage etc etc. as far as i am concerned , now most of the bus stops are WAB friendly (except for certain interchanges).. but is the access to the bus stop/interchanges that is the issue..
3rd point - Changi Airport Bus terminal - Terminal 1 was build in late 1970 and open on 1981. At that time, TIBS does not even exist.. how do LTA (that time LTA also never exist?, only got ROV and maybe ministry of transport?) know that TIBS and/or SMRT will buy bendy buses which come in Mid 90? That time Aircon buses also not yet introduce also... when they build Terminal 1, they have already have plan to build terminal 2 and reserve the land for terminal 3/4 as well. They do know that land is limited and therefore they cant accomodate everything above ground. Thus they have decided to build the underground bus terminal to save space.Also at that time, only got some NAC DD plying certain services only and no bendy buses at all.. So their plan is to accomodate just normal buses for the terminal.
Further, for HK airport , which opened in late 1990, they have big reclaimed area for them to build a world class airport terminal with open air bus terminal as well. HK have been using DDs for quite some time and thus they have taken into consideration on this when building the new airport terminal.. Further, if want to compare, then compare the bus fares of HK airport bus services (AIRBUS) which charge HK33 per trip to go into residential /city area(roughly S$6+) compare to our normal bus fare? also, i believe that our previous AIRBUS (which is in similar fare bands to HK Airbus) also stop at the departure/arrival hall previously?
1st point: SBS2601D has answered most of what I wanted to say. Just to add on, I vaguely remembered that there are news a while back that LTA is going to help bus companies to build depots when they take over the planning of public bus system in future, so isn't this be the initiative of the authority to help the respective bus operators to build and upgrade their depots in order to cater the demand of more commuters, in respect of the population boom in the coming years???
In respect to the existing depots that have their lease expiring soon, yes, I agree that the company should have the initiative to build a proper depot in future that caters higher capacity DDs. However building such depots requires costs, and since LTA is the main authority for the transport systems in Singapore, shouldn't they do a bit to help, be it SBST or SMRT, to build them, and thus to help to defray some of the costs, instead of the companies bearing the full costs and in the end, pass the higher costs back to the commuters instead??? Now LTA wants to come into the picture of taking over all the bus operations in Singapore, so they should contribute in some aspects to ensure that the companies have proper assets and tools to continue to cater for the increasing demand.
2nd point: SBS2601D has also answered most of what I wanted to say. If there is no proper planning early in the first place, how can things be completed within the time frame??? So who suffers in the end??? Commuters.
3rd point: Other than the historical startings of Changi Airport terminal 1 and 2, shouldn't the LTA had planned for a more public bus friendly terminal in Terminal 3 for now, since the population boom for now has increasingly drive the demand up for public buses since the late 2000s???
And for Terminal 1 and 2, if the current terminals could not cater the needs for bigger capacity buses for higher commuter demand usage, shouldn't the authorities have the flexibility to move the terminals to other places (e.g. Coach Parks, along the alighting and boarding points for cabs, or other places), since Terminal 1 and 2 are undergoing major renovations in the recent years??? Isn't it a time now to change and allow a better facilitated bus terminal to cater for the population boom in the coming years???
Demand now in the 70s and 80s are very much different than what we have now. Shouldn't bus operators have the flexibility now and in future to change the usage of the type of buses when the demand has increased over the years and in the coming years??? Rather than limiting bus operators to only have a choice to use single deckers to tackle the increasing demands in the area, why shouldn't the authorities take the initaitive to build a better and more public bus friendly terminal to allow bus operators to have the flexibility to switch to higher capacity buses for such needs??? As mentioned earlier, proper planning, but is there anything being done for future demands in this terminal as well???
Moreover as said, using the right kind of buses provides optimum operations, in terms of costs and manpower. Why do bus operators have to fork out more cost for more bus captains and more single deckers where DDs/bendies can do the job with only one driver??? The resources can be diverted to other routes that needs more bus captains instead. Just because the terminal cannot cater for higher capacity buses, bus operators have to fork out more money (and manpower) to be limited to use smaller capacity buses excessively (in the case for svc 27 especially), in the end, it is the commuters who have to pay higher fares, due to higher operating costs.
It doesn't need rocket science for such kinds of problems, when demand increases, isn't the place to cater the demand needs to be improved as well???
If space is so limited in Singapore and if the authorities are reluctant to build proper facilities for increasing demand, then what for increasing the population in the first place, and leaving Singaporeans to live in a more cramped space than before???
Further more, I'm not comparing the price structures for both Singapore and Hong Kong airport bus services,rather the flexibility that the buses they can use. But for our services in Changi Airport, they are basic services as well, like those in many housing estates. Do commuters have to pay more on the services when they board a DD on svc 7 as compared to board a single decker??? No. I'm talking more of using the right tools to cater the demand at optimum operations.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
If space is so limited in Singapore and if the authorities are reluctant to build proper facilities for increasing demand, then what for increasing the population in the first place, and leaving Singaporeans to live in a more cramped space than before???
I like this part,well said
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Originally posted by vicamour:
3rd point: Other than the historical startings of Changi Airport terminal 1 and 2, shouldn't the LTA had planned for a more public bus friendly terminal in Terminal 3 for now, since the population boom for now has increasingly drive the demand up for public buses since the late 2000s???
And for Terminal 1 and 2, if the current terminals could not cater the needs for bigger capacity buses for higher commuter demand usage, shouldn't the authorities have the flexibility to move the terminals to other places (e.g. Coach Parks, along the alighting and boarding points for cabs, or other places), since Terminal 1 and 2 are undergoing major renovations in the recent years??? Isn't it a time now to change and allow a better facilitated bus terminal to cater for the population boom in the coming years???
Demand now in the 70s and 80s are very much different than what we have now. Shouldn't bus operators have the flexibility now and in future to change the usage of the type of buses when the demand has increased over the years and in the coming years??? Rather than limiting bus operators to only have a choice to use single deckers to tackle the increasing demands in the area, why shouldn't the authorities take the initaitive to build a better and more public bus friendly terminal to allow bus operators to have the flexibility to switch to higher capacity buses for such needs??? As mentioned earlier, proper planning, but is there anything being done for future demands in this terminal as well???
i agree with your statement here...just that maybe last time when they planned the airport, they didnt see bendies and DDs coming into the airport and felt it would not be needed....and i have a suggestion...y not switch the coach the coach parks with the bus terminals?