I think they are actually more influenced by PRC international media because ROC's is far less common to them. Eg the PRC sends more than 10 satellite channels into South East Asia, and it is far better than local countries' including Malaysia's. It makes local media look like crap by comparison and is full of positive views of PRC. Eg. it has good quality news programs that mix positive news on PRC with objective news on the rest of the world.
Among the conservative overseas Chinese, except for those who experienced all the shit in PRC before the 80s, most people lean towards the PRC and see the ROC as an American tool. This applies to most Malaysian Chinese and overseas Chinese because PRC let very few people migrate during that period. Current generation of PRC migrants are too young to have experienced it.
not sure which PRC international media you are refering to.
Malaysian Chinese have more common cultural link with HK and ROC. They use traditional Chinese writing ç¹�ä½“å— till 2008 and today are still debating what are the simplified characters they should adopt. Their common day to day dialect is more Cantonese than Mandarin, in their local Chinese radio and TV they speak cantonese. Their singers, such as 光良，å“�å† ï¼Œæ›¹æ ¼ï¼Œæˆ´ä½©å¦®ï¼Œæ¢�é�™å¦‚all went to Taiwan, none has gone to China. Malaysian Chinese watch more of the Star TV and TVBS, in the south they watch æ—©å®‰ä½ å¥½ on Channel 8. The only channel they watch that is very PRC is 凤凰频视. not many people watch China Central TV ä¸å¤®å�°.
The real problem with their identification, or the lack of, with PRC is the way PRC treat them. To the mainland Chinese, their own country men 大陆�胞 comes first，then it is the 海归�胞 the Chinese returned from overseas studies，then the people from HK, Macao and Taiwan 港澳�胞。Malaysian Chinese are just overseas Chinese �侨. Singaporean are treated as Singaporean Chinese, with respect.
The Malaysian Chinese still can't see much in PRC, except the business opportunity and a visit to their ancestors villages.
Malaysian Chinese who left China before 1947 were from ROC, they know the communists. They were not happy with the British colonial master, but only a small group joined Cheng Ping in the jungle. The Malaysian Chinese left China for a better living, not so much disillusion with the government because the country was at war with Japan. The disillusion with China, PRC came in the peirod of cultural revolution.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:not sure which PRC international media you are refering to.
Malaysian Chinese have more common cultural link with HK and ROC. They use traditional Chinese writing ç¹�ä½“å— till 2008 and today are still debating what are the simplified characters they should adopt. Their common day to day dialect is more Cantonese than Mandarin, in their local Chinese radio and TV they speak cantonese. Their singers, such as 光良，å“�å† ï¼Œæ›¹æ ¼ï¼Œæˆ´ä½©å¦®ï¼Œæ¢�é�™å¦‚all went to Taiwan, none has gone to China. Malaysian Chinese watch more of the Star TV and TVBS, in the south they watch æ—©å®‰ä½ å¥½ on Channel 8. The only channel they watch that is very PRC is 凤凰频视. not many people watch China Central TV ä¸å¤®å�°.
The real problem with their identification, or the lack of, with PRC is the way PRC treat them. To the mainland Chinese, their own country men 大陆�胞 comes first，then it is the 海归�胞 the Chinese returned from overseas studies，then the people from HK, Macao and Taiwan 港澳�胞。Malaysian Chinese are just overseas Chinese �侨. Singaporean are treated as Singaporean Chinese, with respect.
The Malaysian Chinese still can't see much in PRC, except the business opportunity and a visit to their ancestors villages.
Malaysian Chinese who left China before 1947 were from ROC, they know the communists. They were not happy with the British colonial master, but only a small group joined Cheng Ping in the jungle. The Malaysian Chinese left China for a better living, not so much disillusion with the government because the country was at war with Japan. The disillusion with China, PRC came in the peirod of cultural revolution.
Malaysian Chinese nowadays learn simplified text in schoool. They can read but cannot write the traditional text. For some reason the newspapers still use traditional text, I asked them why and they don't know. Maybe for the older generation's sake.
You mean PRC Chinese treat Malaysian Chinese and Singaporean Chinese differently?
Whatever reason their grandparents left China, Malaysian Chinese have very little sense of belonging to their country. They will talk bad about the dominant race there but they won't talk bad about the whole country because they live there, but that's about it. Maybe they lean towards Taiwan, but the current generation onwards do not have any dislike for PRC. I don't think they will take sides in a PRC or ROC conflict unless they see one side as clearly wrong or provocative.
Previous post edited.
Just pointing out that countries with forces in Afghanistan are not "allies" with us or each other.
They are just contributing to the ISAF mission. Absent other alliances, They don't help each other in case anyone gets invaded.
Originally posted by alize:
Yup, just shut up and do. USA is our ally but our top leaders often criticize it to avoid this appearance. It is a mature power that understands our need to do so. We made headlines in the US when we lectured them on China, right? Not a very complicated topic but as a regular, it is good to avoid being heard mentioning it until the distant day comes that you are not penalized for it.
I'm not sure why you need to hear it here in order to know "how ready SAF men are". Does saying it make them more ready?
As a regular, I would go to Afghan. Boosts my career and SAF mission is 99.9% safe. Big MRAP vehicle but you never ever leave the base. RSAF flies UAV, artillery mans the ARTHUR radar. I suppose among regulars, competition to go is stiff.
For me personally, I would go for the experience, touch an AK, interact with ISAF troops. Get some nice beige boots too.
Thank you.
You actually raised an interesting point. SAF is extremely sensitive to deaths because it impacts the public's acceptance of NS, regardless of the deceased being regular or not, volunteer or not. Not a lot of people know that they take parents permission as a veto when you sign on in some high risk vocations eg pilots (although in SAF, the pilot fatality rate is probably lower than any other vocation). Regardless of your age, they won't let you sign on if your parents say no.
I think this is backwards and unfair. Furthermore, SAF contradicts itself when it takes risks in other areas that result in people dying.
Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:
Alize wrote: "For me personally, I would go for the experience, touch an AK, interact with ISAF troops. Get some nice beige boots too." My sincere salute to you alize. That is quite outstanding to make your country, SAF and family proud of you. Listen...I don't have much time to write here and normally I'm not in the internet often. I will talk to you guys later and speak more....but before I go I need to ask sgdiehard this question. Would you volunteer or allow your son to go to Afghanistan?
mahmood,a military experience in Afganistan is not in anyway an act of patriotism, as far as I am concerned. I don't need such experience for my career nor life. As for my son, too young, at their age, they should study hard and learn to be responsible to themselves and their family, the Chinese says "修身é½�家治国平天下”。One step at a time.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:mahmood,a military experience in Afganistan is not in anyway an act of patriotism, as far as I am concerned. I don't need such experience for my career nor life. As for my son, too young, at their age, they should study hard and learn to be responsible to themselves and their family, the Chinese says "修身é½�家治国平天下”。One step at a time.
Ok fair enough. You have a family to take care and would be worried for them. Yes, education is very important and he would be a good son to his parents and Singapore. I'm sure your son will really see Singapore as his real home.
Originally posted by alize:Malaysian Chinese nowadays learn simplified text in schoool. They can read but cannot write the traditional text. For some reason the newspapers still use traditional text, I asked them why and they don't know. Maybe for the older generation's sake.
You mean PRC Chinese treat Malaysian Chinese and Singaporean Chinese differently?
Whatever reason their grandparents left China, Malaysian Chinese have very little sense of belonging to their country. They will talk bad about the dominant race there but they won't talk bad about the whole country because they live there, but that's about it. Maybe they lean towards Taiwan, but the current generation onwards do not have any dislike for PRC. I don't think they will take sides in a PRC or ROC conflict unless they see one side as clearly wrong or provocative.
Previous post edited.
Not sure who are those you referred to as older generation. In Malaysia, those in the 40s (not very old) still read and write in traditional Chinese Character. Their newspapers use traditional text because they have not been able to decide how they would convert from traditional to simplified. Sometimes the heading is in traditional character but the text in simplified, sometimes it is the other way round because the news is copied from HK and Taiwan. In Singapore, the government took the lead to change in early 1970, in Malaysia the government approved the use in 1980, but it is up to each individual or organization or school to make the switch.
Yes, mainland Chinese do not treat all Singaporean and Malaysian Chinese the same. With Singaporean there are many things to talk about and questions to ask, but with the malaysian chinese, there is really nothing much that will interest them.
The Malaysian Chinese are interested in China because of the business opportunities and the many tourist attractions, young and old. in entertainment, the younger malaysian are more familiar with å�´å¿ 宪，周æ�°ä¼¦...the older ones are more familiar with 郑少秋 and æ�Žé¦™ç�´. you are right that they don't like but they don't talk bad about their country, and they are still looking for better and greaner pasture when they can, Singapore, Australia, UK, and even Taiwan...have not heard of any significant number of Malaysian Chinese in China, it is still not a place they are longing to go and live.
That's good. Afghanistan is a freeloader problem. Everybody benefits from the mission but not everybody contributes to it.
Originally posted by alize:That's good. Afghanistan is a freeloader problem. Everybody benefits from the mission but not everybody contributes to it.
Don't get me wrong. This is a futile mission. Countries contribute to support USA, not support Afghanistan. This is USA's mission, not theirs. When USA leaves, every other country will leave with good reason.
No matter how many more years the coalition stays, ANA, ANP, ALP and the Afghan govt will not be able to stand on their own once ISAF leaves.
If you agree with this, you might as well leave now. You can't drag Afghanistan kicking and screaming into modernity and competence within one year or ten.
The worthiness of the mission and the hopelessness of the situation are two different things.
Can't be helped. I'm sure every US commander from 2Lt to Gen has no faith in his heart in the 4 A-parties once he leaves. Some of them will say or blog encouraging words but that's it.
Originally posted by alize:Don't get me wrong. This is a futile mission. Countries contribute to support USA, not support Afghanistan. This is USA's mission, not theirs. When USA leaves, every other country will leave with good reason.
No matter how many more years the coalition stays, ANA, ANP, ALP and the Afghan govt will not be able to stand on their own once ISAF leaves.
If you agree with this, you might as well leave now. You can't drag Afghanistan kicking and screaming into modernity and competence within one year or ten.
The worthiness of the mission and the hopelessness of the situation are two different things.
well said, wise opinion.
Originally posted by alize:Can't be helped. I'm sure every US commander from 2Lt to Gen has no faith in his heart in the 4 A-parties once he leaves. Some of them will say or blog encouraging words but that's it.
Every US commander has no faith in the ability of the
Afghan National Army
Afghan National Police
Afghan Local Police (established because ANP is so corrupt it is turining people against the government)
Afghan government
to carry on the war wholeheartedly once the US leaves. They are more interested in being corrupt, deserting etc. Their encouraging public statements are simply cosmetic.
Accuracy was one reason the US switched the ANA to the M-16. Another was to stop Taliban from buying ANA AK-47s.
Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:Sorry for the late reply buddy. I come in whenever I have the time and when have time to reply. The Coalition and Nato Forces is schedule for withdrawal in 2014. In this case, we need to refer to precedented historical events to see what could happen. The British had scheduled to withdraw its troops from Malaysia and Singapore in the 1960s while the Communists were very much active in their campaigns to topple the ruling governments. Many political analysts had predicted that Malaysia and Singapore would fall to Communism when the British left. Well, we had proofed them and the world wrong.
To rebuild and the development of a nation is not an easy task. It will not happen overnight or a year or more to achieve that goal of a stable and prosperous nation. The Afghanistan administrations and its people will need to go through many trials and errors along that road of progress and development to reach their goals. The Afghanistan war is in its 10 years period now. However, if you compare Afghanistan 10 years ago when we just started and lets say about 3 or 5 years ago, Afghanistan is very much better now. There are many progress and developments in the country with the aid of foreign forces presence and investments from many foreign countries. There is about $1 trillions of mineral resources to be tapped there. There are also plans to have the oil and gas pipeline projects to be developed in Afghanistan. This would really help Afghanistan economy. Though the schedule of foreign forces withdrawal from Afghanistan is in 2014, the economics and military aids will continue. However, it may be a delay of full foreign troops withdrawal and we could have foreign bases in Afghanistan which it seems to be very strategic military purposes globally. I am sure the administration of Singapore and other countries will agree with my point here.
Singapore can't be compared to Afghanistan. In 1965 Malaysia was pitifully weak and dependent together with Singapore on FPDA security. Indonesia and everyone else was weak too. If they had tried anything, they would have been blockaded without a single vessel to challenge it. But every neighbour of Afghanistan is meddling in it.
Singapore is small and easy to police and administer and make rapid improvements to. Chinese people are obedient, hardworking and easily influenced. As uneducated as we were in 1965, it was at least better than Afghanistan. At least we only had 4 national languages. An Afghan will never give up his personal AK-47 and who can blame him for not feeling safe without it?
I don't think Afghanistan is much better now. They can't even stop farmers from growing opium because besides joining the Taliban, there is no other way to make money.
Here's what happens sometimes. Afghan units are at least 20% under strength because men have no other way to send money home. Not counting deserters. Afghan units sell guns to the Taliban in exchange for a truce during their rotation. What happens to the next unit?
You might say ANA units should be tied to their areas of responsibility. But being there too long is precisely what makes the ANP corrupt and it is the only reason the ANA is not as corrupt. Not long ago there was no phone service at night because the Taliban threatened the telcos with blowing up the phone towers. People were making tipoffs at night.
I'm sorry but I can tell from your language that you've been reading too much on offficial US government websites. Of course these will sound optimistic.
You need to read American newspapers widely. No other country's media is more interested in Afghanistan and they are a free press.