Singapore gets more leopard tanks
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Originally posted by alize:
I never said Malaysia is not wrong. IT IS YOU WHO ARE TWISTING FACTS AND LYING.
But thanks. Malaysia is racist (I say one hor) but Singapore loves foreigners. If I go I can come back here on Employment Pass and enjoy more privileges than you.
By special agreement with Malaysia I can still be paid my CPF, but can take it all out at age 55.
I don't need a flat as I have private property.
And as a Malaysian I can drive my Malaysian car here for 3 months, unlike citizens who are not allowed to drive Malaysian cars here for even a day. If I go back on weekends the 3 months can last quite long and I can swap cars with my family members! I like Volvo, how about you?
You still wanna continue your fucking personal feud?
and please, which facts did i twisted and when did i lied? i would love to see you listed it out for me please, if you can.
despite you admitting that malaysia is a racist nation, yet you still feel that by leaving singapore and coming back as a malaysian EP, you will enjoy more privilege then a singapore citizen, wats holding you back?
wat does you having private properties gotta do with our discussion?
and try to keep you immature "f" word to yourself and stick to the discussion if you can...
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hmm....they are getting tiger tanks?
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Originally posted by Hitman Journal:
hmm....they are getting tiger tanks?
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i know they are getting more tanks....but are they letting singaporeans get jobs to maintain them or not?
heya jmstar!.....me wanna service spore military tanks in oz!!!
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Originally posted by Hitman Journal:
i know they are getting more tanks....but are they letting singaporeans get jobs to maintain them or not?
heya jmstar!.....me wanna service spore military tanks in oz!!!
Cool
`
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hi folks,,,i went for interview at piq logistics...interviewer rejected me in less than 3.5 mins after flippin thru my cert files which is exactly trhe same as my resume.he said he wont even accept me even as a traineee...he said he had 50 other people to consider in australia!and im an australian PR.he asked me to go back even to spore.
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grr!
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
will the poor fight like tanks?
lol
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Lelong. More leopards on sale. This time Austria is selling their 114 Leopard 2s.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8348194&c=EUR&s=LAN
These are actually ex-Dutch Leopard 2-NL manufactured in the 80s/early 90s which appeared to be sold to Austria before the Dutch did their upgrading programme to the 2A5. The Dutch have also sold their surplus to Canada, Portugal and Chile and recently announced plans to sell off their remaining L2s.
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Incidentally, the Dutch have no MBT left. They dissolved their last armoured division. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Army
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
Lelong. More leopards on sale. This time Austria is selling their 114 Leopard 2s.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8348194&c=EUR&s=LAN
These are actually ex-Dutch Leopard 2-NL manufactured in the 80s/early 90s which appeared to be sold to Austria before the Dutch did their upgrading programme to the 2A5. The Dutch have also sold their surplus to Canada, Portugal and Chile and recently announced plans to sell off their remaining L2s.
I won't be surprised if we quietly pick some up. MBTs are a sensitive thing here. And David Boey has alluded to the L2 being the SAF's third MBT type. He said the second was not the M60 CEV.
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Originally posted by alize:
I won't be surprised if we quietly pick some up. MBTs are a sensitive thing here. And David Boey has alluded to the L2 being the SAF's third MBT type. He said the second was not the M60 CEV.
"Secret" tanks aren't really useful due to limited training opportunities (affecting both firing accuracy and manouevre effectiveness). Consider how many exercises the L2SG has already undergone.
Singapore's requirement for MBT is limited imho. The 100-200km jungle frontage in the Malay peninsular and limited depth restricts MBT usage. A single L44 gun has a 4km effective range which covers 8km of frontage before movement. Even ATGMs have increasing range (25km if considering the spike NLOS). A lot of other equipment today replicates some of the MBT roles eg Apaches, Himars, Spike-LR (on LSVs) etc which reduces the need for MBTs.
The thing about the arms trade today is that its a lot more transparent. Unless its home developed, most transfers will end up reported today.
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
"Secret" tanks aren't really useful due to limited training opportunities (affecting both firing accuracy and manouevre effectiveness). Consider how many exercises the L2SG has already undergone.
Singapore's requirement for MBT is limited imho. The 100-200km jungle frontage in the Malay peninsular and limited depth restricts MBT usage. A single L44 gun has a 4km effective range which covers 8km of frontage before movement. Even ATGMs have increasing range (25km if considering the spike NLOS). A lot of other equipment today replicates some of the MBT roles eg Apaches, Himars, Spike-LR (on LSVs) etc which reduces the need for MBTs.
The thing about the arms trade today is that its a lot more transparent. Unless its home developed, most transfers will end up reported today.
This is a slightly different context. The first 2 MBTs did not serve operational roles and did not train large numbers of crews.
Extra L2s will be of the same type as the tanks we operate, and we can train many crews for them using the public tank stock. They will be useful as individual replacements or for equipping NS units, just like the ~350 AMX-13 which were never acknowledged.
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Originally posted by alize:
This is a slightly different context. The first 2 MBTs did not serve operational roles and did not train large numbers of crews.
Extra L2s will be of the same type as the tanks we operate, and we can train many crews for them using the public tank stock. They will be useful as individual replacements or for equipping NS units, just like the ~350 AMX-13 which were never acknowledged.
The AMX-13 was acknowledged. In fact, it was publicly displayed in the 1969 NDP. Numbers are generally not published by Mindef. The exception being the L2 purchase.350 was, I think, an estimation by IISS. Not to mistake though, there's a lot of them around.
History documents the examples and failures of newly or weakly crewed tanks. That's not counting the lack of logistical support eg ammo, spares etc that will remove any medium term use of a "secret" tank.
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What were the 3 MBTs? Leopard, Centurion and?
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I believe numbers on strength are seldom publicised, but numbers bought and options exercised for further units seem to be publicly available.
Specific to the AMX-13s, I don't think such a high figure was acknowledged but they were going at $1 each, it made sense to buy many. A good many were used for spares or converted into other vehicles, so the reporting of "tanks" was sidestepped if ever necessary to do so.
Underpaid, he alluded to the 2nd MBT type but did reveal. We can only guess.
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As for the Centurions, I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen one or just passing anecdotes.
I don't even know if they were brought to Singapore or which country they remained in.
Wikipedia citing Tim Huxley: Singapore 63 Centurion Mk3 and Mk7s bought from India in 1975 and more from Israel in 1993-4, all upgraded to Israeli standard with new main guns and diesel engines
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I can confirm the Centurions, Most were posted in Thailand, we got it from Israel I think, the "Storm" something variant, but there was a rusted hulk of one in Sungei Gedong when I was there.
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Oh wait, could he have misclassified the AMX-10 as a MBT? If he went only by the main gun, it could be thought of as a MBT.
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Originally posted by Underpaid:
Oh wait, could he have misclassified the AMX-10 as a MBT? If he went only by the main gun, it could be thought of as a MBT.
I don't think so, AMX-10 has been exhibited at AOH so no mystery there. He was trying to preserve opsec.
As a light tank, it would have been no more a sensitive issue with neighbours than a Scorpion 90.
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David Boey knows the difference between an MBT and a light tank/arm car. When one thinks about peninsular security, Thailand is the logical choice for placing armour in defense. Defends against India, China and Vietnam, 3 birds in 1 country. 50 km at its narrowest point in the Kra Isthmus. Logical 2nd MBT types would be the Magach (M48/M60), both of which are operated by Thailand. There are over 1000 in Israel which were replaced by Merkavas.
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
David Boey knows the difference between an MBT and a light tank/arm car. When one thinks about peninsular security, Thailand is the logical choice for placing armour in defense. Defends against India, China and Vietnam, 3 birds in 1 country. 50 km at its narrowest point in the Kra Isthmus.
Logical 2nd MBT types would be the Magach (M48/M60), both of which are operated by Thailand. There are over 1000 in Israel which were replaced by Merkavas.
Do you think these tanks were for more than evaluation purposes? This would have required extensive training to be conducted on the tank and probably require crews to be posted to Thailand for long periods of time.
Is there any open speculation on the time frame the Centurion and the 2nd MBT were acquired? A rough idea will help our speculation on this 2nd MBT type, and our understanding of the regional security situation at the time.
M48/60: Taiwan operates them as well. This choice of tank also facilitates us to engage some of the world's best tank instructors.
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Originally posted by Underpaid:
I can confirm the Centurions, Most were posted in Thailand, wI e got it from Israel I think, the “Storm” something variant, but there was a rusted hulk of one in Sungei Gedong when I was there.
You've certainly been around camps! I have a vague recollection you mentioned you were a Guardsman.
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Must be someone else, my only Guards unit was 3rd Guards BMT in Nee Soon. Not too familiar with the Magach, the only tanks I'm familiar with that had M48/60 were the American Walker and Patton. Any idea when David served? If he's very, very old, could it be that we got some surplus Super Shermans from the Israelis? As for the Centurions, I'm guessing they were either for study, target practice or to scare others off judging from their condition (rusted brown and hull paper thin, missing tracks, roadwheels etc) though that could have been after they were declared scrap. Totally unusable. Talking about unknown tanks, I was in NS when they were roadtesting the Bionix under dri-clad covers, my unit kept reporting them as Stormers due to their shape. We thought the SAF was going British for a while. :P
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Good quality but not designed for a battle!