Singapore gets more leopard tanks
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Pls lah, Germany & Dutch 2nd hand L2A4 sales to Austria, Canada, Chile, Finland, Greece, Poland, Spain & Sweden are already higher than SG. Turkey would be the highest. With 2,570 L2A4s produced by the 2 alone, its a big pool. That's not counting Leopard 1 2nd hands. That's a bigger pool of 6,XXX. I suspect the article mentioned about S'pore having whatever might have either the letters PDS in reverse or TR somewhere....Alternate reality.
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
bo leh...............i read up an article that say S'pore has most or 2nd most number of used Leopards..................the reburbished one.................not the later models................
Okay then..... I dare you to state your source.
And before you dare say that I got my info from Wikipedia, here's my source:
Army Technology: Leopard 2 Main Battle Tank, Germany
I quote my source:
The Finnish Army has bought 124 tanks, and the Polish Army bought 128 used Leopard 2A4 tanks from Germany.
In August 2005, Greece placed an order for 183 used Leopard 2A4 and 150 Leopard 1A5 tanks from German Army reserves.
In November 2005, an agreement was signed for the sale of 298 German army Leopard 2A4 tanks to Turkey.
In March 2006, Chile signed a contract for the acquisition of 140 Leopard 2A4 tanks from the German Army. The first was delivered in December 2007.
So Finland, Poland, Greece, Chile (and especially) Turkey all have more Leopard 2A4s than we do.
So what's your source?
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i think wiki also leh....................that was 2 years back i think...........
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
i think wiki also leh....................that was 2 years back i think...........
As my BMT platoon sergeant would say, I thought, you think, who confirm? Then he would order you to drop 20 or to run and touch a faraway tree.
And simi 'wiki also'? If you had bothered clicking on the link I gave, you would find that it wasn't Wikipedia.
And if you had bothered to go to Wikipedia recently anyway, they would have given you the same figures I gave.
And your excuse of '2 years back' doesn't work, because 2 years ago in 2009, all those countries I mentioned already had all those numbers of tanks.
FAIL on multiple counts.
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Anti-gahmen, 100% factually wrong, and then scared to admit. Hallmarks of SDPleak lah...no post on wiki that talks about SG being whatever...
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
i think wiki also leh....................that was 2 years back i think...........
Like I said, the more you talk, the more you reveal how stupid and ignorant you are. This is the wrong place to stir anti government sentiment. Good try. -
Originally posted by weasel1962:
Anti-gahmen, 100% factually wrong, and then scared to admit. Hallmarks of SDPleak lah…no post on wiki that talks about SG being whatever…
100% wrong but why bring in the party. Word for word they are no more cynical than utterances from the ruling party and its shield.
Anyway I find it an ironic reversal that over here, T-72s and PT-76s are on the strategic defensive while L2s are on the offensive.
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Originally posted by alize:
100% wrong but why bring in the party. Word for word they are no more cynical than utterances from the ruling party and its shield.
Anyway I find it an ironic reversal that over here, T-72s and PT-76s are on the strategic defensive while L2s are on the offensive.
They have been doing a web campaign for quite some time now. Doesn't take a genius to note when a certain pov starts on their website, miraculously anonymous postings end up throwing the same thereafter. Defence issues have been creeping up in terms of SDP priority. Its scary when parties with this level of military knowledge, or lack of, or where misguided = full of, wants to rule the country (and people actually vote for them).
If this susanteo whoever doesn't claim its from SDPleaks, stand up, say so & claim its just self-created BS with no political affiliation. It insults the people on the forum who do follow such news to claim sources which we know aren't that inaccurate. The lack of a source reflects on the person.
L2s are defensive creatures intended to stop the hordes of Russki tanks during the cold war. All of the L2 buyers, unlike M1s, so far have used it in a defensive role (exception: Afghanistan which is a counter-insurgency role). SG isn't an exception. The Europeans are very circumspect in who they sell arms to.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Like I said, the more you talk, the more you reveal how stupid and ignorant you are. This is the wrong place to stir anti government sentiment. Good try.so you a PAP lapdog ah ?
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No. Unlike you, I don't belong to any political party. I'll even add that I stay in Aljunied GRC :)
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stay in Aljunied but vote for PAP lah......................
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
stay in Aljunied but vote for PAP lah......................
lol. I think WP, at least, don't have crazy ideas on military like some other parties do...seen their manifesto? Far more electable than the anti-gahmen crap being churned out on the Internet. -
Originally posted by weasel1962:
They have been doing a web campaign for quite some time now. Doesn't take a genius to note when a certain pov starts on their website, miraculously anonymous postings end up throwing the same thereafter. Defence issues have been creeping up in terms of SDP priority. Its scary when parties with this level of military knowledge, or lack of, or where misguided = full of, wants to rule the country (and people actually vote for them).
If this susanteo whoever doesn't claim its from SDPleaks, stand up, say so & claim its just self-created BS with no political affiliation. It insults the people on the forum who do follow such news to claim sources which we know aren't that inaccurate. The lack of a source reflects on the person.
L2s are defensive creatures intended to stop the hordes of Russki tanks during the cold war. All of the L2 buyers, unlike M1s, so far have used it in a defensive role (exception: Afghanistan which is a counter-insurgency role). SG isn't an exception. The Europeans are very circumspect in who they sell arms to.
I'm only saying it will be L2s driving into Malaysia and not waiting for PT-91s to drive into Singapore. It is the PT-91s who will be hull-down (to the best of their ability).
I believe NSP's manifesto includes "build up Navy and Air Force in lieu of Army so as to reduce NS duration" noting that it is best to keep our enemies as far away as possible. Tan Chuan Jin spoke up to say Iraq and Afghanistan are numbers games which show this is not possible. WP and SPP had no proposals on defence.
I don't dismiss it as crazy because many first world armies prove soldiers can be sufficiently trained in a shorter duration. The challenges are organisational and not practical.
For example, 2.5 years NS was instituted but not made universal so that 2LT, 3SG and CPLs would be around to accompany the LCPs through their 2 years. Yet it was retained for far longer than necessary, after the days of mono-intake-by-default ended.
The last months of NS represent more "mobilised reserve" than "training". And we know that in a war, less than the total of 400,000 available reservists will be put into the field or the economy stops. It makes sense to me to put them back into the economy in peacetime, but evidently that is the sacrifice the leadership makes on our behalf.
Anyway I noticed that whenever susanteo is around, a certain gentleman who types the same way and has gone through many usernames is absent.
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Originally posted by alize:
I'm only saying it will be L2s driving into Malaysia and not waiting for PT-91s to drive into Singapore.
Anyway have you noticed that whenever susanteo is around, a certain gentleman who types the same way and has gone through many usernames is absent?
Yup. Now I understand why most of the forumers went over to the other milnuts forums. Too many idiots clogging up the forum with irrelevant postings. Funnily enough, the mods can't be bothered either. -
Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
so you a PAP lapdog ah ?
The defence of Singapore is duty of Singaporean, doesn't matter if you are PAP, WP or any others. You really can't tell the difference between nation and party.
I stayed in Aljunied and I din't vote for the PAP, what does it make me, a WP lapdog? Stupid....
If you want to talk politics, go speaker corners.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
The defence of Singapore is duty of Singaporean, doesn't matter if you are PAP, WP or any others. You really can't tell the difference between nation and party.
I stayed in Aljunied and I din't vote for the PAP, what does it make me, a WP lapdog? Stupid....
If you want to talk politics, go speaker corners.
Thinking about it, we fight for our country and family and not any political party.
We will fight because we know the country will endure, the party will one day be gone. But what if you knew the party would only emerge stronger from war, with no intention of letting your country choose its course?
Aside from for your family, would you still fight?
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Originally posted by alize:
Thinking about it, we fight for our country and family and not any political party.
We will fight because we know the country will endure, the party will one day be gone. But what if you knew the party would only emerge stronger from war, with no intention of letting your country choose its course?
Aside from for your family, would you still fight?
you decide if you call this your country, and fulfilled the role of a citizen, regardless of who is in power.
The outcome of a war is only you win or you lose. If you suspect that when you win, the ruling party would emerge stronger, then you have lost the war, better let outsider decide the course for your country rather than your own opposition in the country. Stretch it a bit further, if you dont want a particular party to rule singapore, would you call in a foreign army to take them down?
Would you still fight, if your family are already safely outside of Singapore?
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"War is the health of the state."
States have always used the nationalism, urgency and emergency of war to entrench their grip.
People should only give their lives for the highest ideals. But a choice between an authoritarian and an occupied country is a choice between bad and far, far worse.
For some, the choice is not limited to these 2 options alone and it is these who may not fight.
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Originally posted by alize:
"War is the health of the state."
States have always used the nationalism, urgency and emergency of war to entrench their grip.
People should only give their lives for the highest ideals. But a choice between an authoritarian and an occupied country is a choice between bad and far, far worse.
For some, the choice is not limited to these 2 options alone and it is these who may not fight.
Don't understand your statement "War is the health of the state".
I think you are looking too much at the negative side. In today situation, people are very well informed via all kinds of media, especially in a place like Singapore. It is up to the people to believe what they see and told.
To many people, their highest ideals come after a roof over their head, 3 meals a day for their family. In history wars were actually the results of different idealogies.
The fundamental is, serve NS and be prepared, because if you don't, you won't be of any good when situation need you but you are not ready.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Don't understand your statement "War is the health of the state".
I think you are looking too much at the negative side. In today situation, people are very well informed via all kinds of media, especially in a place like Singapore. It is up to the people to believe what they see and told.
To many people, their highest ideals come after a roof over their head, 3 meals a day for their family. In history wars were actually the results of different idealogies.
The fundamental is, serve NS and be prepared, because if you don't, you won't be of any good when situation need you but you are not ready.
The government ("state") is at its strongest position ("health") relative to the rest of society, in times of war.
I believe in such times the media and critics of the state are not at their free-est.
I agree with you, but in a way you have rephrased the notion that people are at their most vocal when they have nothing. They are less willing to take a stand when they have something.
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Originally posted by alize:
The government ("state") is at its strongest position ("health") relative to the rest of society, in times of war.
I believe in such times the media and critics of the state are not at their free-est.
I agree with you, but in a way you have rephrased the notion that people are at their most vocal when they have nothing. They are less willing to take a stand when they have something.
lets be clear about something here alize, i dont care what is your political position, and i dont give a damn what you think what is right or wrong.
as far as i am concern, if shit hits the fan and we are at war... if your actions should endanger the lifes of those around you and yourself, i believe the ISD or MSD will be please to offer you their "luxurious" hotel service.
though personally i think that is a waste of good food and water on a talent such as you, we should put you in the special propaganda section, where you will use your talent to convince the enemies to surrender en mass or die due to ear infection.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
lets be clear about something here alize, i dont care what is your political position, and i dont give a damn what you think what is right or wrong.
as far as i am concern, if shit hits the fan and we are at war... if your actions should endanger the lifes of those around you and yourself, i believe the ISD or MSD will be please to offer you their "luxurious" hotel service.
though personally i think that is a waste of good food and water on a talent such as you, we should put you in the special propaganda section, where you will use your talent to convince the enemies to surrender en mass or die due to ear infection.
Talking about a Malaysian infantry regiment also became a seizable offence. Sucks to be you... ballsucker...
Your mistakes highlighted with compliments. As said, you should use your mouth for something else.
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Originally posted by alize:
The government ("state") is at its strongest position ("health") relative to the rest of society, in times of war.
I believe in such times the media and critics of the state are not at their free-est.
I agree with you, but in a way you have rephrased the notion that people are at their most vocal when they have nothing. They are less willing to take a stand when they have something.
In times of war, the government that represent the country has the duty to unite the people against outside aggression. The opposition and those who are against the government also have the responsibility to rally the people to protect the country! if they take the opportunity of a war to rid of their opposition, whether for or against the government, putting the country at greater risk, they are committing treason! period.
Everybody, including the media and critics are free to say whatever they want at anytime, for the better of their country, not for their own agenda! If media and critics just hide behind the safety of our armed forces to report the movement of our forces, thus jeopardizing the armed forces and the country, they would be put away as spy, under military law. Traitors, spies, opportunitists DO NOT have freedom!
Let me put this clearly, if you have nothing, being vocal will not earn you anything. It is those who have something who WILL make a stand, for what we have, families, friends, wealth...... a country of our own, that you can take it to the bank.
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Originally posted by alize:
Talking about a Malaysian infantry regiment also became a seizable offence. Sucks to be you... ballsucker...
Your mistakes highlighted with compliments. As said, you should use your mouth for something else.
alize, for someone who turns a blind eye towards malaysia's racist armed forces and govt. you obviously cant tell wat is right or wrong to begin with.
and if you are a singaporean and you intend to help the enemy in times of war, i sincerely reccomend you to migrate to malaysia now, that is if you have not yet apply to be one yet.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
alize, for someone who turns a blind eye towards malaysia's racist armed forces and govt. you obviously cant tell wat is right or wrong to begin with.
and if you are a singaporean and you intend to help the enemy in times of war, i sincerely reccomend you to migrate to malaysia now, that is if you have not yet apply to be one yet.
I never said Malaysia is not wrong. IT IS YOU WHO ARE TWISTING FACTS AND LYING.
But thanks. Malaysia is racist (I say one hor) but Singapore loves foreigners. If I go I can come back here on Employment Pass and enjoy more privileges than you.
By special agreement with Malaysia I can still be paid my CPF, but can take it all out at age 55.
I don't need a flat as I have private property.
And as a Malaysian I can drive my Malaysian car here for 3 months, unlike citizens who are not allowed to drive Malaysian cars here for even a day. If I go back on weekends the 3 months can last quite long and I can swap cars with my family members! I like Volvo, how about you?
You still wanna continue your fucking personal feud?