SOME MALAYSIAN INSULT SG FORCE!
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Originally posted by Gaosung:
if they know for whatever the reason the more they should keep quiet
why dont they gather some fat american soldier photos and make comments?
stupid and pathetic malaysian
is not about hate... is pity them dunoe how to behave
maybe they jealous ba
I do see Chinese soldiers and even officers when I am in Malaysia.
Only one particular infantry regiment is exclusive to Malays. By contrast, Malays are barred from so many units here.
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Very easy to say Malays are barred from so many units here, Indians are barred from so many units here. Talk is easy.
In Malaysia they have to encourage the Chinese to join the army, and few are taking it up. They have their own aversion.
As for the discrimination agains Malays in SAF, it is the same as haunted toilets. People believe it, with no basis.
You observe Chinese in Malaysia Armed Forces, but is blind to Malays in the ranks of the SAF.
BTW, the Malays in the SAF are not there due to affirmative action, they are where they are on their own merits.
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Originally posted by mancha:
Very easy to say Malays are barred from so many units here, Indians are barred from so many units here. Talk is easy.
In Malaysia they have to encourage the Chinese to join the army, and few are taking it up. They have their own aversion.
As for the discrimination agains Malays in SAF, it is the same as haunted toilets. People believe it, with no basis.
You observe Chinese in Malaysia Armed Forces, but is blind to Malays in the ranks of the SAF.
BTW, the Malays in the SAF are not there due to affirmative action, they are where they are on their own merits.
Units which don't admit Malays are a fact of life. I am not insulting the SAF without basis.
One such unit is SAF Ammo Command (manages and services ammunition depots). Their officers openly tell you that in all its history since the beginning of SAF, no Malay has ever been posted there. You need a higher security clearance to be posted there.
As for the Air Force, in all my years of serving on air base, reservist and attending open house after that, I have never ever seen a Malay pilot or ground crew. Not a single one. Likewise you need an even higher security clearance to be one.
And yet I see there are more Malay and Indian regulars in some vocations than in civilian jobs, indicating Malays are eager to join. I wonder why some units have zero of them.
SM Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, September 19, 1999 on Malays in the Singapore Armed Forces: "If, for instance, you put in a Malay officer who's very religious and who has family ties in Malaysia in charge of a machine gun unit, that's a very tricky business. We've got to know his background... I'm saying these things because they are real, and if I don't think that, and I think even if today the Prime Minister doesn't think carefully about this, we could have a tragedy."
It was revealed in 1987 that the SAF was cautious about putting Malay officers in key posts. PM Lee Hsien Loong (Second Minister for defence at that time), made the following comment when asked why weren’t there any Malay pilots in the SAF. "If there is a conflict, if the SAF is called upon to defend the homeland, we don’t want to put any of our soldiers in a difficult position where his emotions for the nation may come in conflict with his emotion for his religion, because these are two very strong fundamentals, and if they are not compatible, then they will be two very strong destructive forces in opposite directions."
Lee Kuan Yew, Jaunary 2011:
“I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam,” he said in “Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going,” a new book containing his typically frank views on the city-state and its future. “I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration — friends, intermarriages and so on…” he stated. “I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate,” Lee added, calling on the community to “be less strict on Islamic observances.”
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Originally posted by alize:
Units which don't admit Malays are a fact of life. I am not insulting the SAF without basis.
One such unit is SAF Ammo Command (manages and services ammunition depots). Their officers openly tell you that in all its history since the beginning of SAF, no Malay has ever been posted there. You need a higher security clearance to be posted there.
As for the Air Force, in all my years of serving on air base, reservist and attending open house after that, I have never ever seen a Malay pilot or ground crew. Not a single one. Likewise you need an even higher security clearance to be one.
And yet I see there are more Malay and Indian regulars in some vocations than in civilian jobs, indicating Malays are eager to join. I wonder why some units have zero of them.
SM Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, September 19, 1999 on Malays in the Singapore Armed Forces: "If, for instance, you put in a Malay officer who's very religious and who has family ties in Malaysia in charge of a machine gun unit, that's a very tricky business. We've got to know his background... I'm saying these things because they are real, and if I don't think that, and I think even if today the Prime Minister doesn't think carefully about this, we could have a tragedy."
It was revealed in 1987 that the SAF was cautious about putting Malay officers in key posts. PM Lee Hsien Loong (Second Minister for defence at that time), made the following comment when asked why weren’t there any Malay pilots in the SAF. "If there is a conflict, if the SAF is called upon to defend the homeland, we don’t want to put any of our soldiers in a difficult position where his emotions for the nation may come in conflict with his emotion for his religion, because these are two very strong fundamentals, and if they are not compatible, then they will be two very strong destructive forces in opposite directions."
Lee Kuan Yew, Jaunary 2011:
“I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam,” he said in “Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going,” a new book containing his typically frank views on the city-state and its future. “I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration — friends, intermarriages and so on…” he stated. “I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate,” Lee added, calling on the community to “be less strict on Islamic observances.”
You have your answers to your own questions: " You need a higher security clearance to be posted there." " You need a higher security clearance to be posted there."
Is it not true that we don't want to put our countryman in difficult position when potentially they might have to face enemy who are closely linked to their own religion?
In the 70s, Chinese with strong link to China also cannot get the security clearance for high or sensitive positions in the service. Lucky China were very far away and there is not a chance that Singapore would go to war with China, otherwise, the chinese would also have security clearance problem.
Besides, how many Malays really want to be pilots? how many pilot you see in SIA, SilkAir and the good for nothing Tiger Air?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
You have your answers to your own questions: " You need a higher security clearance to be posted there." " You need a higher security clearance to be posted there."
Is it not true that we don't want to put our countryman in difficult position when potentially they might have to face enemy who are closely linked to their own religion?
In the 70s, Chinese with strong link to China also cannot get the security clearance for high or sensitive positions in the service. Lucky China were very far away and there is not a chance that Singapore would go to war with China, otherwise, the chinese would also have security clearance problem.
Besides, how many Malays really want to be pilots? how many pilot you see in SIA, SilkAir and the good for nothing Tiger Air?
Yeah, just that someone don't believe Malays can't enter what. Yup, seen Malay pilots at the air port before.
At least if people are cleared on the basis of police records it's cool, not cleared on the basis of race.
Btw sidenote, at the time we had Taiwanese RSAF and RSN chiefs.
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Any Malay in a station at the SAF is there on his own merit. There is no Malay put any place just because of bumiputra like reasons.
Don't listen to people who talk, without knowing the whole picture. Many Chinese and Indians are also found unsuitable to the stringent requirements of being deployed to an ammo depot. You need to be 1000% PGO.
The SAF can put a Malay pilot in the Air Force, even 10 or 20 actually no problem. You want that? Firstly ask do Malays want to be pilots. How many apply? And of the number that apply, how many are rejected?
You see Chinese in the Malaysian Armed Forces, you don't see Malays in the SAF, even in senior ranks? As early as 1970 there are Malays in the SAF and even in senior ranks.
Its very easy and popular to say Malays are banned in SAF units.
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Originally posted by mancha:
Any Malay in a station at the SAF is there on his own merit. There is no Malay put any place just because of bumiputra like reasons.
Don't listen to people who talk, without knowing the whole picture. Many Chinese and Indians are also found unsuitable to the stringent requirements of being deployed to an ammo depot. You need to be 1000% PGO.
The SAF can put a Malay pilot in the Air Force, even 10 or 20 actually no problem. You want that? Firstly ask do Malays want to be pilots. How many apply? And of the number that apply, how many are rejected?
You see Chinese in the Malaysian Armed Forces, you don't see Malays in the SAF, even in senior ranks? As early as 1970 there are Malays in the SAF and even in senior ranks.
Its very easy and popular to say Malays are banned in SAF units.
Unfortunately the people who talk about it openly are the PM and SM.
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But Malays are not banned anywhere in the SAF as the populist saying goes.
In Malaysia, racial discrimination is the norm and accepted, but in Singapore it is an accusation.
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There's always a choice when it comes to war. Any soldier who feels that he is not up to the mission can always stand down from it. The problem with the malay's is that they are not daring enough when come to confront someone whom in their own religion and race. Try asking our chinese singaporean to go to war with china and he'll be more than glad to do so. Try asking our singaporean malay to go to war with indonesia, they will actually think 3 times before coming to a decision. Once again that doesnt mean that doesnt mean that malays shouldnt be in the force
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Originally posted by alize:
Unfortunately the people who talk about it openly are the PM and SM.
What are they talking about? What ever applies to the Malay Muslim also applies to any Chinese or Indian.
You think a Chinese, who has secret society will be ignored, while a Malay will be marked.
A Malay that prove himself, has no obstruction.
In Malaysia, it is blatantly not so for non-Malays.
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the chances of SG going to war with china is virtually zero
but the chances of northern and southern trying to eat us is all along exisitng...
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Originally posted by mancha:
What are they talking about? What ever applies to the Malay Muslim also applies to any Chinese or Indian.
You think a Chinese, who has secret society will be ignored, while a Malay will be marked.
A Malay that prove himself, has no obstruction.
In Malaysia, it is blatantly not so for non-Malays.
How to prove yourself as a pilot or ground crewman when not even admitted to training?
I never say Malaysia no discrimination. I am saying Singapore got discrimination.
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Originally posted by Gaosung:
the chances of SG going to war with china is virtually zero
but the chances of northern and southern trying to eat us is all along exisitng...
Ermmm...China's basis of claim over the South China Sea can actually be applied as easily to SG.... The whole region at some point in time paid homage to Chinese suzerainty.
The basis why Japan attacked Singapore in 1942 can also be used on the same grounds to justify the chinese war risk. Only a civilian can afford to ignore that. Having said that, it doesn't mean SG wants a war with China.
btw, Singapore has had malay pilots since 1992 including F-16 pilots. The policy has changed from the past. Becoming a fighter pilot is already difficult (1 in 1000 or more), to have race being an issue. Its ultimately self defeating.
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better be safe than sorry
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
Ermmm...China's basis of claim over the South China Sea can actually be applied as easily to SG.... The whole region at some point in time paid homage to Chinese suzerainty.
The basis why Japan attacked Singapore in 1942 can also be used on the same grounds to justify the chinese war risk. Only a civilian can afford to ignore that. Having said that, it doesn't mean SG wants a war with China.
btw, Singapore has had malay pilots since 1992 including F-16 pilots. The policy has changed from the past. Becoming a fighter pilot is already difficult (1 in 1000 or more), to have race being an issue. Its ultimately self defeating.
I think Singapore has more to fear from Chinese spies picking up some US/Israeli technology from the RSAF.
Btw do we still have troops in Starlight at this point?
Perhaps the Malay pilot is singular and symbolic. In all my RSAF experience never ever seen a Malay pilot or ground crew.
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Originally posted by alize:
I do see Chinese soldiers and even officers when I am in Malaysia.
Only one particular infantry regiment is exclusive to Malays. By contrast, Malays are barred from so many units here.
according to official malaysia figures, there are only about 300+ chinese in MAF. please feel free to correct me if you got the actual figures.
secondly, its NOT one regiments in MAF that is exclusive to malays, the exclusive malay only Royal Malay Regiments or commonly known as the RMR or RMAD, consists of dozens of regiments and practically makes up almost 75% of malaysia army, it is COMPLETELY EXCLUSIVELY malays. this is necessary because the first role of RMR is to defend the malay's rights in malaysia, understandbly the MAF cannot trust another race to defend the unequal privilege and special rights that malays currently enjoy under the malaysian constituition.
The Royal Malay Regiment (Malay: Rejimen Askar Melayu DiRaja) is the premier unit of the Malaysian Army's two infantry regiments. At its largest, the Malay Regiment comprised 27 battalions. At present, two battalions are parachute trained and form part of the Malaysian Army Rapid Deployment Force. Another battalion has been converted into a mechanized infantry battalion while the remaining battalions are standard light infantry. The 1st Battalion Royal Malay Regiment acts as the ceremonial battalion for the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, and is usually accompanied by the Central Band of the Malay Regiment.
As its name suggests, the regiment only recruits ethnic Malays.
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Originally posted by alize:
I think Singapore has more to fear from Chinese spies picking up some US/Israeli technology from the RSAF.
Btw do we still have troops in Starlight at this point?
Perhaps the Malay pilot is singular and symbolic. In all my RSAF experience never ever seen a Malay pilot or ground crew.
let me name you at least 2 malay pilots in the RSAF. and i challenge you to name me 2 chinese pilots in RMAF.
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ONLY one in a thousand makes it as a fighter pilot in the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), and Lieutenant Yusri Abu Bakar, 25, not only made the cut but also secured the distinction of becoming the first Malay Singaporean fighter pilot.
The young lieutenant got his wings in October 2001 and completed his F-16 training a year later.----------------------------
The KC-135 deployment was part of Singapore's on-going contributions to the multinational reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. During its deployment, the detachment conducted around 350 hours of air-to-air refuelling in support of the coalition forces.
At the ceremony, the KC-135 Detachment Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Zakir Hamid, said, “We completed all the missions assigned to us successfully. We also gained valuable operational experience by working with some of the most advanced air forces in the world." -
Originally posted by tripwire:
according to official malaysia figures, there are only about 300+ chinese in MAF. please feel free to correct me if you got the actual figures.
secondly, its NOT one regiments in MAF that is exclusive to malays, the exclusive malay only Royal Malay Regiments or commonly known as the RMR or RMAD, consists of dozens of regiments and practically makes up almost 75% of malaysia army, it is COMPLETELY EXCLUSIVELY malays. this is necessary because the first role of RMR is to defend the malay's rights in malaysia, understandbly the MAF cannot trust another race to defend the unequal privilege and special rights that malays currently enjoy under the malaysian constituition.
The Royal Malay Regiment (Malay: Rejimen Askar Melayu DiRaja) is the premier unit of the Malaysian Army's two infantry regiments. At its largest, the Malay Regiment comprised 27 battalions. At present, two battalions are parachute trained and form part of the Malaysian Army Rapid Deployment Force. Another battalion has been converted into a mechanized infantry battalion while the remaining battalions are standard light infantry. The 1st Battalion Royal Malay Regiment acts as the ceremonial battalion for the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, and is usually accompanied by the Central Band of the Malay Regiment.
As its name suggests, the regiment only recruits ethnic Malays.
Firstly, I wish not for this to be an argument. I did not say Malaysia does not discriminate, but I can show evidence it does not.
Secondly, I can show you more Chinese pilot offers than you can count. I personally took this pic at the memorial at the RMAF museum at TUDM Sungai Besi, KL. There are 17 Chinese names I marked with red dots (and 5 Indian names marked with blue) out of a total of 84. Also note that the ranks are very evenly distributed. Chinese pilots make 20% of the RMAF, which matches the racial composition of Malaysia, which does not suggest discrimination. (Indians make up 6%).
Thirdly, I would correct you because there are 25 active battalions in the RMR (+2 reserve). At 800 men a battalion, that is 18% of 110K soldiers of the Malaysian army. There are also other corps(formations) in the army, and also the air force and navy. So I'm not sure where your figure of RMR making up 75% of the army is cited from.
I would say don't think all countries are out to get your race, the truth is out there. In fact, Malaysia and us will likely be on the same side in war against the most probable aggressor.
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Originally posted by alize:
Firstly, I wish not for this to be an argument. I did not say Malaysia does not discriminate, but I can show evidence it does not.
Secondly, I can show you more Chinese pilot offers than you can count. I personally took this pic at the memorial at the RMAF museum at TUDM Sungai Besi, KL. There are 17 Chinese names I marked with red dots (and 5 Indian names marked with blue) out of a total of 84. Also note that the ranks are very evenly distributed. Chinese pilots make 20% of the RMAF, which matches the racial composition of Malaysia, which does not suggest discrimination. (Indians make up 6%).
Thirdly, I would correct you because there are 25 active battalions in the RMR (+2 reserve). At 800 men a battalion, that is 18% of 110K soldiers of the Malaysian army. There are also other corps(formations) in the army, and also the air force and navy. So I'm not sure where your figure of RMR making up 75% of the army is cited from.
I would say don't think all countries are out to get your race, the truth is out there. In fact, Malaysia and us will likely be on the same side in war against the most probable aggressor.
forget your museum list, that was in the past prior to the "malaynization" of the MAF. try and look at the present RMAF and tell me how many chinese pilots are there NOW!
there are 25 RMR battalion, even having one is gross racial discrimination, can you justify having 25 exclusive malays only battalions?
according to the official malaysia ministry of defence figure for 2010, there are total of only 397 chinese and indians are fast dropping below 1,000 in numbers.
in 2008 malays consist of 88.8% of MAF with 9.3% aboriginis from east malaysia, the total chinese and indian soldiers in MAF is less then 2%!!!
and if there is war, we wont be fighting side by side, just pray we wont be fighting against each other.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
forget your museum list, that was in the past prior to the "malaynization" of the MAF. try and look at the present RMAF and tell me how many chinese pilots are there NOW!
there are 25 RMR battalion, even having one is gross racial discrimination, can you justify having 25 exclusive malays only battalions?
according to the official malaysia ministry of defence figure for 2010, there are total of only 397 chinese and indians are fast dropping below 1,000 in numbers.
in 2008 malays consist of 88.8% of MAF with 9.3% aboriginis from east malaysia, the total chinese and indian soldiers in MAF is less then 2%!!!
and if there is war, we wont be fighting side by side, just pray we wont be fighting against each other.
When you challenge me to show you 2 Chinese pilots, I show you 17 of equal ranks from 1967 to 2004 you don't believe.
I should challenge you to show your "official MOD source" instead of just saying it. If you claim a "malaynisation" over these years you should also show it. Otherwise don't blow hot air.
I already pointed out your mistake/lie. You took 27 active+reserve RMR battalions against 9 active-only RRD battalions to get your faulty 75% figure. Conveniently ignoring the other branches of the army. Then you conveniently applied this percentage to describe the whole army, navy and air force.
The problem is that only kids can laugh at SAF soldiers wearing specs. But any thinking adult can laugh at your claim. You might as well claim that 81 of 87 Singaporeans support the PAP.
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Originally posted by alize:
When you challenge me to show you 2 Chinese pilots, I show you 17 of equal ranks from 1967 to 2004 you don't believe.
I should challenge you to show your "official MOD source" instead of just saying it. If you claim a "malaynisation" over these years you should also show it. Otherwise don't blow hot air.
I already pointed out your mistake/lie. You took 27 active+reserve RMR battalions against 9 active-only RRD battalions to get your faulty 75% figure. Conveniently ignoring the other branches of the army. Then you conveniently applied this percentage to describe the whole army, navy and air force.
The problem is that only kids can laugh at SAF soldiers wearing specs. But any thinking adult can laugh at your claim. You might as well claim that 81 of 87 Singaporeans support the PAP.
listing a bunch of pilots name all the way back from 1967!!! i am not even born and i doubt many of them are still alive, maybe that is why you see their names in the MUSEUM!!
which planet have you been living on all these years???
The Malaysian military's most striking characteristic is that, unlike its neighbors. It is an important social function of the military to insure Malay political dominance. The highest ranks of the military are composed of ethnic Malays, as are a majority of those who serve under them. The military's controversial role in establishing order following the May 1969 urban rebellion further emphasizes the political function of the institution as one supporting the Malay-dominated ruling coalition.
why are you denying the facts from the malaysian defence minister??? are you saying that the malaysian defence minister is lying when he provided the figure that shows that indians and chinese makes up less then 2% of MAF??or perhaps you know the MAF better then the malaysian defence minister? maybe you should take his job... assuming you meet malaysia "special" qualification. -
Before you insult me, maybe you should re-check if you've read a damned thing. Maybe you wanna go suck on your mother's testicles.
Has it occurred to you that Chinese will hardly join except as officers if they are way ahead in terms of income?
Or that a Malay army is hardly needed to maintain order, as if the 22% Chinese are likely to try anything funny in a country where they and their families live surrounded by Malays?
I doubt you even know that the Malays rioted against the Chinese in 1969.
Unlike you I don't twist facts to misrepresent numbers in order to further my own moronic agenda.
I found this quote that is very relevant to you: I believe your battle-stance attitude to posting on a free forum is part of your forum issues... After awhile you have to figure that it's not all of the forum owners and poster's that make up the problems you devise for yourself... Floating from forum to forum complaining, insulting the owner, demanding and proclaiming them failures is a very telling pattern of behavior.
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Originally posted by alize:
Before you insult me, maybe you should re-check if you've read a damned thing. Maybe you wanna go suck on your mother's testicles.
Has it occurred to you that Chinese will hardly join except as officers if they are way ahead in terms of income?
Or that a Malay army is hardly needed to maintain order, as if the 22% Chinese are likely to try anything funny in a country where they and their families live surrounded by Malays?
I doubt you even know that the Malays rioted against the Chinese in 1969.
Unlike you I don't twist facts to misrepresent numbers in order to further my own moronic agenda.
I found this quote that is very relevant to you: I believe your battle-stance attitude to posting on a free forum is part of your forum issues... After awhile you have to figure that it's not all of the forum owners and poster's that make up the problems you devise for yourself... Floating from forum to forum complaining, insulting the owner, demanding and proclaiming them failures is a very telling pattern of behavior.
save your testicles comment for yourself.
if you cant face up to the facts... get lost.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
save your testicles comment for yourself.
if you cant face up to the facts... get lost.
It is you who are blind to the facts and twist them like the liar and fraud you are.
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Originally posted by alize:
It is you who are blind to the facts and twist them like the liar and fraud you are.
you mean the malaysian constiuition on special malay rights are a lie?
or you implying the racial breakdown figures of MAF provided by malaysia ministry of defence in malaysian parliament a fabricated lie?
you want to check with PERKASA, UTUSAN or UMNO first?