Originally posted by Underpaid:Compared to the M-4 I already did say 50/50, both have it's tradeoffs.
And yes, you can slap the mag in, for the fun of it.
And I disagree with it being a bad rifle, you just have to know how to use it. That includes aiming point at various ranges, 100m direct fire, 200m at neck level and 300m top of head, though with the new rounds, it's 200m still chest level and 300m neck level for center of mass hits.
My biggest gripe is probably the auto-fire selector, but OTOH, we almost never go rock and roll. It is a stupid place to put the switch, but I think the design was actually catered to the SAR-21 LMG, where standard posture is right hand on trigger guard, left on buttstock pressed to shoulder. If that was the case, the auto-fire switch would actually be directly under the left thumb and middle finger, allowing quick changes. As a rifle, unfortunately, it just ends up being a stupid function/placement.
I have to agree on the uncomfortable grip though, but hey it's just slightly uncomfortable. I known worse. And if you're in NS for comfy living... you need a mental checkup :)
Ok
did not know SIngapore have gone with 1/7 twist and SS109! thats good... better ballistic and have better penetration than the old 55 grain M193.
for the M4 and SAR21 I think the M4's Direct gas system kind of made the rifle very dirty . compared to a piston based rifle like the AK, SAR21 or hk416. ... I own a piston based M4 built by POF usa! and i will take it any day to the Direct gas M16. so much cleaner, less heat and less jamming for sure. as for the bullpup! unfortunately we cannot get to buy the SAR21 thus the closet bullpup I have is the AUG-A2 and FAMAS! both for ease of use and mag release and ergonomics is really bad !although the bullpup felt more balance than the front heavy M4. Howver the deciding factor is that the AUG and FAMAS both have very spongy trigger compared to the M4! thus ergo and handling I still take the M4 platform!
Somehow in the US! not a lot of people liked the bullpup design! most find it very awkard in handling.
DaveC
I really regret having served NS without firing a shot.
Haiz ... ...
If you went sispec, you might get a chance to fire a few shots. For me, its plus a few more times with an 40agl.
Originally posted by ditzy:If you went sispec, you might get a chance to fire a few shots. For me, its plus a few more times with an 40agl.
I will die of sleep deprivation If I go SISPEC.
I have severe insomia caused by anxiety disorder in camp.
Even with sleeping pills,I still slept poorly in camp.
Tired the whole day in my unit.
Some say the Israelis are using the SAR in action
OCS http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberpioneer/5353607651/in/set-72157614328978595/
SCS http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberpioneer/4719613225/in/set-72157614328978595/
3SIR http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberpioneer/5135392640/in/set-72157614328978595/
"Some say the Israelis are using the SAR in action"
TAR, not SAR.
"I will die of sleep deprivation If I go SISPEC. I have severe insomia caused by anxiety disorder in camp. Even with sleeping pills,I still slept poorly in camp."
You're perfect as a scout! You're not supposed to sleep for 3 days outfield, so you'll be right at home! :P
"Howver the deciding factor is that the AUG and FAMAS both have very spongy trigger "
That problem was noted in the feedback for the SAR pre-production, so they went with a stiff plate trigger, it solved the problem, though the biting point for the trigger is still fairly deep. The NSF we were with told us they solved the problem by not letting the trigger go totally after firing a shot, just relax a bit past the biting point.
Originally posted by Underpaid:"Some say the Israelis are using the SAR in action"
TAR, not SAR.
"I will die of sleep deprivation If I go SISPEC. I have severe insomia caused by anxiety disorder in camp. Even with sleeping pills,I still slept poorly in camp."
You're perfect as a scout! You're not supposed to sleep for 3 days outfield, so you'll be right at home! :P
"Howver the deciding factor is that the AUG and FAMAS both have very spongy trigger "
That problem was noted in the feedback for the SAR pre-production, so they went with a stiff plate trigger, it solved the problem, though the biting point for the trigger is still fairly deep. The NSF we were with told us they solved the problem by not letting the trigger go totally after firing a shot, just relax a bit past the biting point.
Didn't the Israelis get the technology from ST?
Discussions (arguments) abound on that. And the direction of any tech transfer.
Originally posted by Underpaid:Discussions (arguments) abound on that. And the direction of any tech transfer.
I think they worked together
HI Underpaid
I hope the SAR21 solve the issue of all Bullpup with the long "soft" trigger pull! the M4/M16 or even an M14 have much better feel trigger that can be tune to do more match type work. Want a good trigger out of box ! check out the SIG 550 ... smooth as butter!
DaveC
Originally posted by davechng:HI Underpaid
I hope the SAR21 solve the issue of all Bullpup with the long "soft" trigger pull! the M4/M16 or even an M14 have much better feel trigger that can be tune to do more match type work. Want a good trigger out of box ! check out the SIG 550 ... smooth as butter!
DaveC
What's the advantage of "soft" trigger
It's a flaw, not an advantage. Dave, see above on the plastic sliding piece trigger. Pull was VERY crisp. Ask any NSman who did a "shear check".
I look at the M-16 as a supermodel who asks little of you. And the SAR-21 as a plump chick with a fist in your side. The SAR-80 as a farmhand.
When cleaning my M-16 I felt a connection to generations past. I won't feel this sense of pride and privilege when stripping a SAR.
:) Though the supermodel sometimes does have her temper tantrums :P
Not her fault. DI is not a good gas system.
may have a buddy that owns a SAR21 to try! so far I have not been impress with the trigger pull on bullpups !but I hope the SAR21 proof me wrong!... BTW Underpaid! does the SAR21 have a selector or does it have no selector for FA and semi like the AUG! I guess AUG made their trigger so ungodly terrible becasue when you pull all the way! it gots rock and roll! a lot of time I rather have a semi auto AUG! and tune the hell out of the trigger...
DaveC
I know. The AUG had a good idea that didn't work out.
As for the SAR selector. It seriously sucks ergronomically. Just read the online reviews and see what I mean. Though to be fair, I suspect the placement was for the SAR-LMG.
Originally posted by davechng:may have a buddy that owns a SAR21 to try! so far I have not been impress with the trigger pull on bullpups !but I hope the SAR21 proof me wrong!... BTW Underpaid! does the SAR21 have a selector or does it have no selector for FA and semi like the AUG! I guess AUG made their trigger so ungodly terrible becasue when you pull all the way! it gots rock and roll! a lot of time I rather have a semi auto AUG! and tune the hell out of the trigger...
DaveC
Owns a SAR 21?
Overseas. Gun licence.