Originally posted by Underpaid:Why not? We use Harpoons, the SM missile is a possible swap for the Asters and frigates are hardly so expensive that only 1st world countries can afford them. Hell, most 3RD World countries have frigates.
I think the Asters are better missiles except that they havent been tested in combat
Originally posted by Underpaid:And according to Clancy, America has attacked India, Russia, China and Japan. Should we declare the US to be the new Axis power? :)
Fact and Fiction don't mix too well.
"No Western AS or cruise missile is supersonic"
It IS getting slow in comparison to things like the Bramos, at least until the US gets their thumbs out of their ass on the Waverider project.
Anyway, off topic, you wanted air defence ship, not ship-killers.
Yes true but even an air dfecne ship must have AS capability to defend itself. That's why i vote for the Luyang II
none of what you stated
Originally posted by amanda.lu862:Yes true but even an air dfecne ship must have AS capability to defend itself. That's why i vote for the Luyang II
Well, that would depend on if you're planning a fleet support ship or a solo mission ship. If fleet, then it's someone else's job to do the killing, and specialization allows for a more capable ship in the role. On the other hand, a solo-mission ship needs to be a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. So guess in short, it depends on your navy's tactics.
Originally posted by Underpaid:
Well, that would depend on if you're planning a fleet support ship or a solo mission ship. If fleet, then it's someone else's job to do the killing, and specialization allows for a more capable ship in the role. On the other hand, a solo-mission ship needs to be a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. So guess in short, it depends on your navy's tactics.
True but in all cases, one should have everything. Western Navies think its ok to arm a ship only for one role. Russia and China dont
It would be nice to have a factual basis to a lot of the sound-bites I'm reading here. Too much inaccuracies to correct.
If China didn't subscribe to single role ships, how would one characterise the type 022s...or the Russian pauks etc.
Someone should have clarified the context in which the original question. For example, Crumpler SG would have been absolutely correct to state none of the above in the context of the choices of ADS for RSN esp since the RSN can't afford to crew any of the above ships in the numbers required.
However, from the perspective of the UK, the Type 45s were of course favoured by the British, whilst the Americans prefers the burkes, the French the Horizons and the Chinese their Luyangs. So its really a question of which nationality does one belong.
????????U NEED TO DEFEND A SHIP??FROM WHAT??SCUBA DIVERS ARMED WITH EXPLOSIVES OR MISSILES?IN THIS MODERN ERA N TECHNOLOGY...SHIPS ARENT WORTH THE VALUE THEY ARE BUILT..ITS ONLY GOOD AS TRANSPORT SHIPS!
U BUILD 10 OF THE BEST SHIPS WITH ALL THE BEST WEAPONS ONBOARD...THEY CAN BE HIT FROM THE AIR MILES AWAY WITH 10 MUCH CHEAPER N COST EFFECTIVE ROBOTIC DRONES CARRYING A TON OF EXPLOSIVES.
PLEASE BE MORE PRODUCTIVE N SERIOUS WHEN U INTEND TO PURCHASE SERIOUS WEAPONS N DESTROY THE ENEMY .
AND THERE ARE ALSO SUBMARINE MINES THAT ARE REMOTE CONTROLLED PEERING AT YOUR SHIP IN THE NIGHT UNDETECTIBLE BY SONAR AND LAUNCHED BY TRANSPORT PLANES OR MOTHER SUBS.
WHAT USE ARE YER SHIPS N SAILORS WITH ALL THOSE MAGNIFICENT WEAPONS GOOD FOR THEN EXCEPT AS HOMES AND FOOD FOR FISH!
From your nick I was wondering if you like Generation Kill, but it seems you must be Actual himself.
The way he's shouting, think he likes hearing kill. :P
Generation kill= kick to the n-ts? lol
Originally posted by Underpaid:The way he's shouting, think he likes hearing kill. :P
Generation kill= kick to the n-ts? lol
Generation Love--Jennette McCurdy
We have no money for specialist ships. In any case, air defence destroyers and frigates are generally multipurpose vessels.
However, it must be said that anti-submarine vessels tend to be very dedicated ships because they are designed from ground up to be silent, along with all that volume for equipment and the towed sonar array.
In any case, general trend is towards general purpose ships. The Russians are doling out some new general purpose frigates too. Quite nice ones actually.
Originally posted by Darth_Revan:We have no money for specialist ships. In any case, air defence destroyers and frigates are generally multipurpose vessels.
However, it must be said that anti-submarine vessels tend to be very dedicated ships because they are designed from ground up to be silent, along with all that volume for equipment and the towed sonar array.
In any case, general trend is towards general purpose ships. The Russians are doling out some new general purpose frigates too. Quite nice ones actually.
Well the Brit Type 45s is not that great then. Little anti-ship capability. Will not survive a sustained ASh Missile attack
Originally posted by Darth_Revan:We have no money for specialist ships. In any case, air defence destroyers and frigates are generally multipurpose vessels.
However, it must be said that anti-submarine vessels tend to be very dedicated ships because they are designed from ground up to be silent, along with all that volume for equipment and the towed sonar array.
In any case, general trend is towards general purpose ships. The Russians are doling out some new general purpose frigates too. Quite nice ones actually.
There are the Bedoks which are specialist vessels.
Whatever anyone wants, the Formidables are already in service. As to air defence, that's the domain of the RSAF.
Agree about the trend though. The LCS is an example of modular fits which goes a step further as in you only carry what you need based on the intended role. So its not really multi-role but changeable roles.
Originally posted by amanda.lu862:Well the Brit Type 45s is not that great then. Little anti-ship capability. Will not survive a sustained ASh Missile attack
You are not making any sense.
Originally posted by weasel1962:There are the Bedoks which are specialist vessels.
Whatever anyone wants, the Formidables are already in service. As to air defence, that's the domain of the RSAF.
Agree about the trend though. The LCS is an example of modular fits which goes a step further as in you only carry what you need based on the intended role. So its not really multi-role but changeable roles.
Bedoks are kinda rather low tech for what they are intended to do.
At the very far end you'd have the US ocean surveillance vessels. Sure they don't have any weapons, but with some networking, you could do some really nifty work.
Originally posted by Darth_Revan:
You are not making any sense.
I am
He means you got two functions mixed up. Anti-ship missiles often can't be used in air-defence, so saying that a ship has weak air defences because it can't kill ships is... a jump in logic that most of us don't seem to get.
Unless someone has a "ship-launcher" firing ships as missiles. :)
"It's a bird! It's a plane!... OH SHIT!! IT'S A CARRIER!!! RUN!!!" :P
Originally posted by Underpaid:He means you got two functions mixed up. Anti-ship missiles often can't be used in air-defence, so saying that a ship has weak air defences because it can't kill ships is... a jump in logic that most of us don't seem to get.
Unless someone has a "ship-launcher" firing ships as missiles. :)
"It's a bird! It's a plane!... OH SHIT!! IT'S A CARRIER!!! RUN!!!" :P
I'm saying a a single fight the air-defence ship without any anti-ship weapons will lose.
The Type 45s carry harps. Just that they don't carry them during peacetime. Also, the lynx carries the skuas.
It's a common practice. This was seen at Navy Open House 2010. Malaysian ships also go out with a few Exocet boxes missing.
You bet the Aster VLS cells won't all be full.
Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
air defence ship huh..........................S'pore should get the Japs to build the Yamato again................
how to beat the Yamato......................got around 180 AA guns leh.................
ahhhh !!! yamato was sank by planes !!!
obvious failed in air defense !!!
"I'm saying a a single fight the air-defence ship without any anti-ship weapons will lose"
This was not what you said.
"Little anti-ship capability. Will not survive a sustained ASh Missile attack"
This was the original. A ship with little anti-ship capability will not survive a sustained AShM attack. Which is actually the opposite, a dedicated AA ship will actually have a BETTER chance to survive than a generalised design.
And storywolf has a point. :)
Every ship has a limited number of missiles + ammo, even an air defence ship. Launch enough bombs at it and something will hit.
That's why F15 & F16s have an advantage. Can launch simultaneous multiple attacks on same or differing targets at one go.
Every F-15SG can carry 12 to 15 cheap GBU-54s which can track moving target up to 110km/h (60 knots). Way faster than most ships can move. 2 or 3 F-15 sorties can probably kill almost any vessel in this region if it can get within range to launch the GBUs. Air power still has an advantage.
More expensive ships like the burkes have XXXkm ranged missiles that can target aircraft at extremely long range. But of course, whether can detect aircraft at XXXkm is another issue. Some air forces have capability to launch X,XXXkm ranged missiles as well.
weasel, so true, but GBUs have a big flaw. They are mostly gravity bombs, which mean you have to get in very close, and it might be better not to have a 100M dollar (F-35 price range) fighter close in to such a range a $15,000 SAM can kill it.
The more traditional way to settle this is to fire long ranged anti-ship missiles like Harpoons or Exocets from far away in huge numbers and let them swarm the ship. Less costly than losing a plane and pilot by 100x (1 Harpoon = 1M +/-, 1 F-35 = 100M- see wiki for cost comparison)