If Indonesia wages war on Spore, what is the likely outcome?
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Originally posted by alize:
So I was saying there is great value in keeping Msia on our side when fighting Indon, but some others here take it lightly. As if they can parachute in and take all of Malaysia's oil refineries intact.
Should be easy. as it is those two are already at each other's throats WITHOUT us. rmb how they almost went to war last yr over the national foods of each? lol. sometimes i liken the leaders there to immature babies with no proper political background whatsoever. -
I really don't think so.
Given the little faith they have in their own military, which they keep weak and unfunded out of coup phobia and corruption, why would they want to start a war that might result in the end of their comfy lives?
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Originally posted by alize:
I really don't think so.
Given the little faith they have in their own military, which they keep weak and unfunded out of coup phobia and corruption, why would they want to start a war that might result in the end of their comfy lives?
this discussion is becoming utter rubbish.
first of all, malaysia would never have the balls to stand up against indonesia, much less for our sake. should malaysia even dare to look indonesia in the eye during a singapore indonesia conflict, they can kiss their entire east malaysia bye bye.
all the SLOC are international water, the global powers will never stand idle if indonesia seeks to dominate/threaten/control the SLOC that is critical to the survival of the entire east asian nations.
if indonesia so much as show that it seeks to control the SLOC, it runs the risk of being broken up into a dozen nations by superpowers covertly or overtly. its so easy nowadays to label any nation a terrorist state, and start the bombing runs.
saddam was hanged and gaddafi was shot in the head, lets see who wants to be next in the line.
if shits really hits the fan and we goes to war with indonesia, i will rather have australia, thailand and china on our side. at the very least, the above 3 nations will hate to see a stronger, assertive and domination indonesia for their own nation interest.
with thailand, malaysia will think thrice before they even dream of backstabbing us, we could even drop afew bombs in KL to make sure they get the message.
with australia, america wont be far behind, and with or without NATO participation, indonesia is effective kaput.
china will most definitely try to let america do the dirty job, but china aint no fools as they will be more severely impacted by an indonesia that seeks to control all of china and east asian economic and oil shipping lines.
malaysia can sit this one out, they will probably be too busy looking for their missing fighter jet engine and keeping their ships afloat from leaking. War aint something malaysia can handle, they only got 48 tanks, indonesia will die laughing.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
this discussion is becoming utter rubbish.
first of all, malaysia would never have the balls to stand up against indonesia, much less for our sake. should malaysia even dare to look indonesia in the eye during a singapore indonesia conflict, they can kiss their entire east malaysia bye bye.
all the SLOC are international water, the global powers will never stand idle if indonesia seeks to dominate/threaten/control the SLOC that is critical to the survival of the entire east asian nations.
if indonesia so much as show that it seeks to control the SLOC, it runs the risk of being broken up into a dozen nations by superpowers covertly or overtly. its so easy nowadays to label any nation a terrorist state, and start the bombing runs.
saddam was hanged and gaddafi was shot in the head, lets see who wants to be next in the line.
if shits really hits the fan and we goes to war with indonesia, i will rather have australia, thailand and china on our side. at the very least, the above 3 nations will hate to see a stronger, assertive and domination indonesia for their own nation interest.
with thailand, malaysia will think thrice before they even dream of backstabbing us, we could even drop afew bombs in KL to make sure they get the message.
with australia, america wont be far behind, and with or without NATO participation, indonesia is effective kaput.
china will most definitely try to let america do the dirty job, but china aint no fools as they will be more severely impacted by an indonesia that seeks to control all of china and east asian economic and oil shipping lines.
malaysia can sit this one out, they will probably be too busy looking for their missing fighter jet engine and keeping their ships afloat from leaking. War aint something malaysia can handle, they only got 48 tanks, indonesia will die laughing.
So you want to bomb KL and forgo any UK-AUS-NZ protection conferred by the FPDA. Sala, lah.
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Originally posted by alize:
So you want to bomb KL and forgo any UK-AUS-NZ protection conferred by the FPDA. Sala, lah.
if indon goes to war with malaysia, should we take up arms against indon?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
if indon goes to war with malaysia, should we take up arms against indon?
Yes, not out of love for Msia but otherwise the future Sing-Indo border might be Johor Baru.
Never allow this to happen. They can easily make threats to shake up our economy, even if not we still have to lengthen our NS to 4 years, give special legal treatment to the maids, and catch illegal immigrants and human/cig/drug smugglers every day. Relations between the two will be very bad. Further on we might have to boot them out of Johor.
If Sg and Msia need each other, join forces under FPDA, we're in luck. They are in a better position to supply ground forces while we supply air and sea components (air support, strike, UAV and manned reconnaissance, sealift, sea control) so our men can go back to work and earn money for this war. Tell Msia, "look, you know yourself it's not going to work the other way around."
Furthermore the 3 Western countries don't have very big armies, they may not be willing or able to deploy significant ground forces.
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Originally posted by alize:
So you want to bomb KL and forgo any UK-AUS-NZ protection conferred by the FPDA. Sala, lah.
i will not hesitate to bomb the shit out of KL if they dare to even dream of backstabbing us during a singapore and indonesia conflict.
with thailand watching our back, malaysia will pay dearly should they even dare to try.
FPDA is a mere consulative body, its not a military alliance. and i seriously doubt UK-AUZ-NZ consider malaysia any better then indonesia.
the BARE FACT that FPDA does NOT include east malaysia should be clear to you that non of the UK-AUZ-NZ powers are really interested in defending malaysia.
why would FPDA ignore 2/3 of malaysia's territory must give you pause as to the REAL reason why FPDA existed, and i can assure you its certainly not out of love for malaysia.
despite malaysia's repeated attempt to expand the FPDA to cover its east malaysian territories, it was repeatedly denied by all the other participants, so honestly... even malaysia have no illusion about the FPDA and the "security" it provides.
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Originally posted by alize:
Yes, not out of love for Msia but otherwise the future Sing-Indo border might be Johor Baru.
Never allow this to happen. They can easily make threats to shake up our economy, even if not we still have to lengthen our NS to 4 years, give special legal treatment to the maids, and catch illegal immigrants and human/cig/drug smugglers every day. Relations between the two will be very bad. Further on we might have to boot them out of Johor.
If Sg and Msia need each other, join forces under FPDA, we're in luck. They are in a better position to supply ground forces while we supply air and sea components (air support, strike, UAV and manned reconnaissance, sealift, sea control) so our men can go back to work and earn money for this war. Tell Msia, "look, you know yourself it's not going to work the other way around."
Furthermore the 3 Western countries don't have very big armies, they may not be willing or able to deploy significant ground forces.
dont be stupid, even if singapore and malaysia join forces, we will never defeat indonesia in the short to medium term. if indonesia does wack malaysia, we should join indonesia as allies and wack peninsula malaysia.
during konfrontasi, malaysia abandons us and sign a truce with indonesia leaving us to face indonesia alone. you wanna trust them again???
a war between indonesia and singapore+malaysia could last for decades at exhorbitant cost with no absolute victory in sight.
there is little or absolutely nothing to gain for singapore in terms of territorial or resources, and indonesia becomes our enemy permanently even after the war.
OTOH a combine indonesia+singapore invasion of malaysia could be won within afew days to less then a month.
end of the day, indonesia gets east malaysia, we take peninsula malaysia, thailand can join in the fun and take northern peninsula malaysia.
heck even phillipine can have a slice of sabah, brunei takes back their limbang territories and china takes the south china sea islands currently held by malaysia.
no one will miss malaysia if its history ends there and then.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
i will not hesitate to bomb the shit out of KL if they dare to even dream of backstabbing us during a singapore and indonesia conflict.
with thailand watching our back, malaysia will pay dearly should they even dare to try.
FPDA is a mere consulative body, its not a military alliance. and i seriously doubt UK-AUZ-NZ consider malaysia any better then indonesia.
the BARE FACT that FPDA does NOT include east malaysia should be clear to you that non of the UK-AUZ-NZ powers are really interested in defending malaysia.
why would FPDA ignore 2/3 of malaysia's territory must give you pause as to the REAL reason why FPDA existed, and i can assure you its certainly not out of love for malaysia.
despite malaysia's repeated attempt to expand the FPDA to cover its east malaysian territories, it was repeatedly denied by all the other participants, so honestly... even malaysia have no illusion about the FPDA and the "security" it provides.
Originally posted by tripwire:dont be stupid, even if singapore and malaysia join forces, we will never defeat indonesia in the short to medium term. if indonesia does wack malaysia, we should join indonesia as allies and wack peninsula malaysia.
during konfrontasi, malaysia abandons us and sign a truce with indonesia leaving us to face indonesia alone. you wanna trust them again???
a war between indonesia and singapore+malaysia could last for decades at exhorbitant cost with no absolute victory in sight.
there is little or absolutely nothing to gain for singapore in terms of territorial or resources, and indonesia becomes our enemy permanently even after the war.
OTOH a combine indonesia+singapore invasion of malaysia could be won within afew days to less then a month.
end of the day, indonesia gets east malaysia, we take peninsula malaysia, thailand can join in the fun and take northern peninsula malaysia.
heck even phillipine can have a slice of sabah, brunei takes back their limbang territories and china takes the south china sea islands currently held by malaysia.
no one will miss malaysia if its history ends there and then.
Obviously the facts that Suharto ended konfrontasi because it was failing to meet its objectives, and that FPDA participants fought in the East Malaysian jungles are bits of history you have yet to learn.
It is contradictory that you with to avoid a war that "would last for decades at exhorbitant cost with no absolute victory in sight", and in the same post you advocate Singapore invading and occupying West Malaysia. You seem to have forgotten the occupying part, something that would not be lost on any thinking person. You "will not hesitate" to commit yourself to such a war, will you?
Your above points are so ludicrous I can only conclude you made them in your haste to challenge any feelings for Malaysia you think I have, being still sore over the last time you discussed Malaysia's armed forces and got self-pwned by your own assertions.
I need not state that the FPDA is not enacted for Malaysia's or Singapore's sakes alone, it is there to state Australia's position should Indonesia go on the warpath. Indonesia is almost the entire reason for the existence of Australia's armed forces and strategic assets.
You on the other hand would be happy to see Indonesia on your doorstep in Johor, having learnt nothing from konfrontasi and East Timor.
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Originally posted by alize:
Obviously the facts that Suharto ended konfrontasi because it was failing to meet its objectives, and that FPDA participants fought in the East Malaysian jungles are bits of history you have yet to learn.
It is contradictory that you with to avoid a war that "would last for decades at exhorbitant cost with no absolute victory in sight", and in the same post you advocate Singapore invading and occupying West Malaysia. You seem to have forgotten the occupying part, something that would not be lost on any thinking person. You "will not hesitate" to commit yourself to such a war, will you?
Your above points are so ludicrous I can only conclude you made them in your haste to challenge any feelings for Malaysia you think I have, being still sore over the last time you discussed Malaysia's armed forces and got self-pwned by your own assertions.
I need not state that the FPDA is not enacted for Malaysia's or Singapore's sakes alone, it is there to state Australia's position should Indonesia go on the warpath. Indonesia is almost the entire reason for the existence of Australia's armed forces and strategic assets.
You on the other hand would be happy to see Indonesia on your doorstep in Johor, having learnt nothing from konfrontasi and East Timor.
stop your delusion.
if you think occupying malaysia with the combine forces of indonesia, phillipine, singapore, thailand and brunei is untenable, wat sanity is there in fighting, defeating and occupying indonesia??
FPDA was formed 5 years after konfrontasi has ended.
any british involvement in konfrontasi was mainly due to its defence commitment to defend malaysia which no longer exist with the creation of FPDA.
its insane to think that FPDA was directed against indonesia, the HARSH fact that the FPDA does not include EAST malaysia should be obvious even to the blind and retarded.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
stop your delusion.
if you think occupying malaysia with the combine forces of indonesia, phillipine, singapore, thailand and brunei is untenable, wat sanity is there in fighting, defeating and occupying indonesia??
FPDA was formed 5 years after konfrontasi has ended.
any british involvement in konfrontasi was mainly due to its defence commitment to defend malaysia which no longer exist with the creation of FPDA.
its insane to think that FPDA was directed against indonesia, the HARSH fact that the FPDA does not include EAST malaysia should be obvious even to the blind and retarded.
Sigh, I have to point your own contradiction to you:
I said to fight, not occupy Indonesia. You said you are eager to divide and occupy Malaysia for good. See the diff?
You want the Philippines and Brunei to contribute what air, land and sea forces? Zero combat aircraft or assault ships. The Phils can't handle one insurgency on their own soil, Brunei's two battalions sure can help. I didn't hear you. What was that?
FPDA not against Indonesia? It's open literature, kid.
It came precisely in 1971 when permanent British Far East forces pulled out. If it wasn't a response to Konfrontasi why didn't it come before Konfrontasi?
Ever thought defending West Malaysia is air-sea battle while East Malaysia is light infantry work, which UK AUS NZ have neither the resources or inclination to do? Aren't such things for Malaysia to help itself, or must UK AUS NZ commit on their behalf as well?
You really make it too easy for me. Look, if you wanna make your cretinous retardation ring far and wide again, you're welcome to make another valiant try. I will gladly do my part. That's the only thing you seem to be good at.
Too easy.
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Originally posted by alize:
Sigh, I have to point your own contradiction to you:
I said to fight, not occupy Indonesia. You said you are eager to divide and occupy Malaysia for good. See the diff?
You want the Philippines and Brunei to contribute what air, land and sea forces? Zero combat aircraft or assault ships. The Phils can't handle one insurgency on their own soil, Brunei's two battalions sure can help. I didn't hear you. What was that?
FPDA not against Indonesia? It's open literature, kid.
It came precisely in 1971 when permanent British Far East forces pulled out. If it wasn't a response to Konfrontasi why didn't it come before Konfrontasi?
Ever thought defending West Malaysia is air-sea battle while East Malaysia is light infantry work, which UK AUS NZ have neither the resources or inclination to do? Aren't such things for Malaysia to help itself, or must UK AUS NZ commit on their behalf as well?
You really make it too easy for me. Look, if you wanna make your cretinous retardation ring far and wide again, you're welcome to make another valiant try. I will gladly do my part. That's the only thing you seem to be good at.
Too easy.
your argument is bordering insanity if you think you can just start a war against indonesia and then just walk away... you think indonesia is gonna just roll over and act like nothing has happen?? you took indonesia far too lightly.
anyone with an iota of grey matter can tell you its far easier, logical, feasible and achievable both military and diplomatically by destroying malaysia with the combine might of singapore, indonesia, thailand, phillipine and brunei, then fantasizing about defeating indonesia with malaysia's pathetic worthless military, even with the support of the technological advance singapore armed forces.
just singapore alone possess the military power to crush the MAF, the addition of indonesia and thailand military power would not only simply hasten Malaysia's destruction.. but through additional participation by philipine and brunei would result in a wide regional (minus malaysia) diplomatic consensus and recognition of the new borders.
how silly can anyone be, to even believe that FPDA was setup to fight against indonesia, yet the reason it does not include EAST malaysia was because malaysia is expected to defend EAST malaysia alone in an open conflict with indonesia???
you are lost in your self delusion world and are spouting utter nonsense!!
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Originally posted by tripwire:
your argument is bordering insanity if you think you can just start a war against indonesia and then just walk away... you think indonesia is gonna just roll over and act like nothing has happen?? you took indonesia far too lightly.
anyone with an iota of grey matter can tell you its far easier, logical, feasible and achievable both military and diplomatically by destroying malaysia with the combine might of singapore, indonesia, thailand, phillipine and brunei, then fantasizing about defeating indonesia with malaysia's pathetic worthless military, even with the support of the technological advance singapore armed forces.
just singapore alone possess the military power to crush the MAF, the addition of indonesia and thailand military power would not only simply hasten Malaysia's destruction.. but through additional participation by philipine and brunei would result in a wide regional (minus malaysia) diplomatic consensus and recognition of the new borders.
how silly can anyone be, to even believe that FPDA was setup to fight against indonesia, yet the reason it does not include EAST malaysia was because malaysia is expected to defend EAST malaysia alone in an open conflict with indonesia???
you are lost in your self delusion world and are spouting utter nonsense!!
You're still sure the FPDA 's target is not Indonesia? Good luck pushing that one. You'll find yourself very alone in this opinion.
Read more. Don't get tripped up on such elementary matters.
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Originally posted by alize:
You're still sure the FPDA 's target is not Indonesia? Good luck pushing that one. You'll find yourself very alone in this opinion.
Read more. Don't get tripped up on such elementary matters.
you should wake up from your dream if you still believe that FPDA was meant to fight indonesia...
from beginning to end, you cannot accept the fact the FPDA is a consultative body, neither can you explain why IF the FPDA was indeed aim at indonesia, why was EAST malaysia not covered under FPDA.
you are the butt of the joke if you think MAF got the balls or the guts to stand toe to toe against TNI in east malaysia or anywhere else for any reason other then perhaps forced to a corner without recourse.
and lastly, the IDEALISTIC assumption that SAF will work with MAF to fight against TNI for malaysia's sake is truely laugable and smack full of ignorance and lack of understanding of regional politics.
as the saying goes, if malaysia can be trusted, pigs can fly... and even if malaysia does stand firm on their intergrity for once, their MAF lack both the capability and capacity to do so.
you should bloody wake up by now.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
you should wake up from your dream if you still believe that FPDA was meant to fight indonesia...
from beginning to end, you cannot accept the fact the FPDA is a consultative body, neither can you explain why IF the FPDA was indeed aim at indonesia, why was EAST malaysia not covered under FPDA.
you are the butt of the joke if you think MAF got the balls or the guts to stand toe to toe against TNI in east malaysia or anywhere else for any reason other then perhaps forced to a corner without recourse.
and lastly, the IDEALISTIC assumption that SAF will work with MAF to fight against TNI for malaysia's sake is truely laugable and smack full of ignorance and lack of understanding of regional politics.
as the saying goes, if malaysia can be trusted, pigs can fly... and even if malaysia does stand firm on their intergrity for once, their MAF lack both the capability and capacity to do so.
you should bloody wake up by now.
You've done your googling and seen it a thousand times: FPDA counters Indonesia.
You're just denying it here because you were stupidly advocating to bomb Malaysia and forgo any FPDA assistance. If you insist, let's see...
- The British Labour government announced in 1967 its new policy of military withdrawal East of Suez. Originally expected for the mid-1970s, the military disengagement was eventually moved to the end of 1971. This decision surprised Malaysia and Singapore, as they were dependent on their military ties with London. Modifying the decision taken by the previous Labour government, the new Conservative government decided to maintain some military engagement in the region by proposing to supersede the 1957 AMDA by a "loose consultative political framework". Consequently, the defence ministers of Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and the United Kingdom concluded the formation of the FPDA in London on 16 April 1971.
- East Malaysia was excluded from the ambit of the agreement as Australia wanted to prevent getting involved in territorial disputes with the Philippines and Indonesia over the island of Borneo. The exclusion of East Malaysia remains relevant today, as it implies that the FPDA could not be called upon in the case of a military clash between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.
- Besides tense bilateral relations between Singapore and Malaysia, the formation of the FPDA followed the Indonesia opposition to the formation of the Federation of Malaysia in 1963. Viewed as a British neo-colonial design, Sukarno had started a campaign of Confrontation to oppose the new federation. While the downfall of Sukarno in 1965 and the establishment of ASEAN in August 1967 had symbolized the end of the period of Confrontation, regional relations continued to be characterized by mistrust and sources of tension. Despite the political reconciliation between Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta, Malaysia remained fearful of Indonesia. Likewise, Singapore had suffered attacks during the period of Confrontation and mistrusted Jakarta. Indonesia's annexation of East Timor in December 1975 was another issue that complicated Singapore-Indonesian relations. The city-state was, in 1975, still fearful of Jakarta's regional intentions and potential hegemonic ambitions. Indonesia and its potential regional aspirations were therefore a clear referent of the FPDA during the 1970s and 1980s. Jakarta would, for many years, remain sceptical about the arrangements. Jakarta saw the FPDA as inappropriate as it represented an "insurance against Indonesia's possible reversion to her old ways". President Suharto particularly objected to its possible expansion in membership to include Brunei. As late as 1990, the former Indonesian foreign minister, Mochtar Kusmaatmdja, called for the FPDA to be disbanded and replaced by a trilateral defence relationship between Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. Indonesia gradually softened its approach, however, and the former Defence Minister General Benny Murdani eventually declared in 1994 that "if the FPDA makes its members feel secure, then regional security is enhanced and Indonesia is happy".
http://www.rsis.edu.sg/publications/WorkingPapers/WP195.pdf
Don't trip on your way out.
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Originally posted by alize:
You've done your googling and seen it a thousand times: FPDA counters Indonesia.
You're just denying it here because you were stupidly advocating to bomb Malaysia and forgo any FPDA assistance. If you insist, let's see...
- The British Labour government announced in 1967 its new policy of military withdrawal East of Suez. Originally expected for the mid-1970s, the military disengagement was eventually moved to the end of 1971. This decision surprised Malaysia and Singapore, as they were dependent on their military ties with London. Modifying the decision taken by the previous Labour government, the new Conservative government decided to maintain some military engagement in the region by proposing to supersede the 1957 AMDA by a "loose consultative political framework". Consequently, the defence ministers of Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and the United Kingdom concluded the formation of the FPDA in London on 16 April 1971.
- East Malaysia was excluded from the ambit of the agreement as Australia wanted to prevent getting involved in territorial disputes with the Philippines and Indonesia over the island of Borneo. The exclusion of East Malaysia remains relevant today, as it implies that the FPDA could not be called upon in the case of a military clash between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.
- Besides tense bilateral relations between Singapore and Malaysia, the formation of the FPDA followed the Indonesia opposition to the formation of the Federation of Malaysia in 1963. Viewed as a British neo-colonial design, Sukarno had started a campaign of Confrontation to oppose the new federation. While the downfall of Sukarno in 1965 and the establishment of ASEAN in August 1967 had symbolized the end of the period of Confrontation, regional relations continued to be characterized by mistrust and sources of tension. Despite the political reconciliation between Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta, Malaysia remained fearful of Indonesia. Likewise, Singapore had suffered attacks during the period of Confrontation and mistrusted Jakarta. Indonesia's annexation of East Timor in December 1975 was another issue that complicated Singapore-Indonesian relations. The city-state was, in 1975, still fearful of Jakarta's regional intentions and potential hegemonic ambitions. Indonesia and its potential regional aspirations were therefore a clear referent of the FPDA during the 1970s and 1980s. Jakarta would, for many years, remain sceptical about the arrangements. Jakarta saw the FPDA as inappropriate as it represented an "insurance against Indonesia's possible reversion to her old ways". President Suharto particularly objected to its possible expansion in membership to include Brunei. As late as 1990, the former Indonesian foreign minister, Mochtar Kusmaatmdja, called for the FPDA to be disbanded and replaced by a trilateral defence relationship between Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. Indonesia gradually softened its approach, however, and the former Defence Minister General Benny Murdani eventually declared in 1994 that "if the FPDA makes its members feel secure, then regional security is enhanced and Indonesia is happy".
http://www.rsis.edu.sg/publications/WorkingPapers/WP195.pdf
Don't trip on your way out.
dont make me laugh, you just trip yourself twice if not thrice over... check your article again.
especially part one where its stated clearly that FPDA is a LOOSE CONSULTATIVE POLITICAL FRAMEWORK.... *ouch*... that gonna burst your bubble dream of a FPDA MILITARY ALLIANCE.
and in part two, where its stated AUSTRALIA dont wanna save malaysia's puny ass aganst indoneisa... *double ouch*... and we wonder WHICH IDIOT went around blabbering FPDA was formed to deal with indonesia.... haahahaha...
and in the last part, by 1994 even indonesia dont regard FPDA as directing against it... you trying to make us laugh our ass off isit?
for your information, you might wanna read the british govt THE DEFENCE REVIEW 1966... there you will realize that the brits by then were not concern about indonesia hitting singapore, they were there to (put it bluntly) to defend singapore against malaysia.... hahahahaaaa.a......
in short, the true purpose of FPDA is more probably to keep a leash around malaysia to keep malaysia from sticking its fat fingers into singapore after the british troop withdrawal from east of suez, then any attempt against indonesia given that suharto is in power and he works "well" with the americans.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
dont make me laugh, you just trip yourself twice if not thrice over... check your article again.
especially part one where its stated clearly that FPDA is a LOOSE CONSULTATIVE POLITICAL FRAMEWORK.... *ouch*... that gonna burst your bubble dream of a FPDA MILITARY ALLIANCE.
and in part two, where its stated AUSTRALIA dont wanna save malaysia's puny ass aganst indoneisa... *double ouch*... and we wonder WHICH IDIOT went around blabbering FPDA was formed to deal with indonesia.... haahahaha...
and in the last part, by 1994 even indonesia dont regard FPDA as directing against it... you trying to make us laugh our ass off isit?
for your information, you might wanna read the british govt THE DEFENCE REVIEW 1966... there you will realize that the brits by then were not concern about indonesia hitting singapore, they were there to (put it bluntly) to defend singapore against malaysia.... hahahahaaaa.a......
in short, the true purpose of FPDA is more probably to keep a leash around malaysia to keep malaysia from sticking its fat fingers into singapore after the british troop withdrawal from east of suez, then any attempt against indonesia given that suharto is in power and he works "well" with the americans.
dont make me laugh, you just trip yourself twice if not thrice over... check your article again. especially part one where its stated clearly that FPDA is a LOOSE CONSULTATIVE POLITICAL FRAMEWORK.... *ouch*... that gonna burst your bubble dream of a FPDA MILITARY ALLIANCE.
Who called FPDA a military alliance? Britain withdrew permanent forces for cost reasons and deliberately did not make FPDA a binding agreement. Are you stupid? Where did I say FPDA is a military alliance?
and in part two, where its stated AUSTRALIA dont wanna save malaysia's puny ass aganst indoneisa... *double ouch*... and we wonder WHICH IDIOT went around blabbering FPDA was formed to deal with indonesia.... haahahaha...
If Malaysia, Australia and Philippines are on the same team, why should Australia allow Malaysia to invoke FPDA in a dispute with the Philippines? Nevertheless Australia sees fit defend West Malaysia- how come?
and in the last part, by 1994 even indonesia dont regard FPDA as directing against it... you trying to make us laugh our ass off isit?
If you take Jakarta's comments to mean that Indonesia has no objection to the FPDA, and is not trying to save face since it can't do anything about it, let it be.
for your information, you might wanna read the british govt THE DEFENCE REVIEW 1966... there you will realize that the brits by then were not concern about indonesia hitting singapore, they were there to (put it bluntly) to defend singapore against malaysia.... hahahahaaaa.a......"The White Paper announced an intention to stay in Singapore under "acceptable conditions," as long as the Governments of Singapore and Malaysia want them to. Hopes are expressed that an end to the confrontation between Indonesia and Malaysia may enable Britain to withdraw some of 40,000 now stationed in Malaysia.
in short, the true purpose of FPDA is more probably to keep a leash around malaysia to keep malaysia from sticking its fat fingers into singapore after the british troop withdrawal from east of suez, then any attempt against indonesia given that suharto is in power and he works "well" with the americans.
Now you are claiming FPDA is meant to contain Malaysia. Lagi best! Why not 4PDA to protect Singapore only?
And it's funny you would rather trust Indonesia than trust Malaysia in war. Yeah, the US would've put an arms embargo on Msia, not Indonesia if you were right.Oh and you claimed "during konfrontasi, malaysia abandons us and sign a truce with indonesia leaving us to face indonesia alone. you wanna trust them again???" Pure cock and bull. You mean the Mal-Indo declaration of the end of Konfrontasi on 28 May 1966? Sukarno started Kon against Malaysia in 1962, not Singapore which was not independent. In any case, "Formal relations between Singapore and Indonesia began with the establishment of a Singapore Liaison Office in December 1966. Both countries agreed to establish formal diplomatic relations at Ambassadorial level from 7 September 1967. (quote Sg govt)"
I'm happy to let your posts on this thread stand as a monument to your stupidity. Knn, even jojobeach can do better than you.
If you think my views are so obviously wrong, let them stand as well.For now, you can continue to post threads like your cute little
singaporeans visiting malaysia beware!!
in the milnuts forum, taken from some dodgy Malaysian Chinese tabloid. Nobody will find fault with you.
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There are only two things in this forum that rile you up: Malaysia and me.
You on your own can't dream of beating either. Only dream of beating off.
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Originally posted by alize:
dont make me laugh, you just trip yourself twice if not thrice over... check your article again. especially part one where its stated clearly that FPDA is a LOOSE CONSULTATIVE POLITICAL FRAMEWORK.... *ouch*... that gonna burst your bubble dream of a FPDA MILITARY ALLIANCE.
Who called FPDA a military alliance? Britain withdrew permanent forces for cost reasons and deliberately did not make FPDA a binding agreement. Are you stupid? Where did I say FPDA is a military alliance?
and in part two, where its stated AUSTRALIA dont wanna save malaysia's puny ass aganst indoneisa... *double ouch*... and we wonder WHICH IDIOT went around blabbering FPDA was formed to deal with indonesia.... haahahaha...
If Malaysia, Australia and Philippines are on the same team, why should Australia allow Malaysia to invoke FPDA in a dispute with the Philippines? Nevertheless Australia sees fit defend West Malaysia- how come?
and in the last part, by 1994 even indonesia dont regard FPDA as directing against it... you trying to make us laugh our ass off isit?
If you take Jakarta's comments to mean that Indonesia has no objection to the FPDA, and is not trying to save face since it can't do anything about it, let it be.
for your information, you might wanna read the british govt THE DEFENCE REVIEW 1966... there you will realize that the brits by then were not concern about indonesia hitting singapore, they were there to (put it bluntly) to defend singapore against malaysia.... hahahahaaaa.a......"The White Paper announced an intention to stay in Singapore under "acceptable conditions," as long as the Governments of Singapore and Malaysia want them to. Hopes are expressed that an end to the confrontation between Indonesia and Malaysia may enable Britain to withdraw some of 40,000 now stationed in Malaysia.
in short, the true purpose of FPDA is more probably to keep a leash around malaysia to keep malaysia from sticking its fat fingers into singapore after the british troop withdrawal from east of suez, then any attempt against indonesia given that suharto is in power and he works "well" with the americans.
Now you are claiming FPDA is meant to contain Malaysia. Lagi best! Why not 4PDA to protect Singapore only?
And it's funny you would rather trust Indonesia than trust Malaysia in war. Yeah, the US would've put an arms embargo on Msia, not Indonesia if you were right.Oh and you claimed "during konfrontasi, malaysia abandons us and sign a truce with indonesia leaving us to face indonesia alone. you wanna trust them again???" Pure cock and bull. You mean the Mal-Indo declaration of the end of Konfrontasi on 28 May 1966? Sukarno started Kon against Malaysia in 1962, not Singapore which was not independent. In any case, "Formal relations between Singapore and Indonesia began with the establishment of a Singapore Liaison Office in December 1966. Both countries agreed to establish formal diplomatic relations at Ambassadorial level from 7 September 1967. (quote Sg govt)"
I'm happy to let your posts on this thread stand as a monument to your stupidity. Knn, even jojobeach can do better than you.
If you think my views are so obviously wrong, let them stand as well.For now, you can continue to post threads like your cute little
singaporeans visiting malaysia beware!!
in the milnuts forum, taken from some dodgy Malaysian Chinese tabloid. Nobody will find fault with you.
Who called FPDA a military alliance? Britain withdrew permanent forces for cost reasons and deliberately did not make FPDA a binding agreement. Are you stupid? Where did I say FPDA is a military alliance?
guess wat... who is the one that has been YELLING protection under the FPDA, join forces under the FPDA, and that nonsense that FPDA was aim at indonesia, read your own post again from the top of this page.
If Malaysia, Australia and Philippines are on the same team, why should Australia allow Malaysia to invoke FPDA in a dispute with the Philippines? Nevertheless Australia sees fit defend West Malaysia- how come?
nonsense!! not to mention the FACT that there is NO clause under FPDA for malaysia to invoke in its dispute against phillipine, need i remind you that philipine has USA backing, or do you think australia is gonna take on USA+phillipine for malaysia's butt sake? hahahaaa
If you take Jakarta's comments to mean that Indonesia has no objection to the FPDA, and is not trying to save face since it can't do anything about it, let it be.
dont humour me... Jakarta aint as dumb as you think, the fact the FPDA is OFFICIALLY a LOOSELY CONSULTATIVE POLITICAL FRAMEWORK and its exclusion of EAST malaysia under the FPDA framework should be clear indication of the FACT of our desire not to form a military alliance against anyone, therefore FPDA sure as hell is not a military alliance with indonesia as the target!
only problem is that you have been dreaming so long in LALA land, you are in self denial of the critical reality.
"The White Paper announced an intention to stay in Singapore under "acceptable conditions," as long as the Governments of Singapore and Malaysia want them to. Hopes are expressed that an end to the confrontation between Indonesia and Malaysia may enable Britain to withdraw some of 40,000 now stationed in Malaysia.
and your purpose in stating an unrelated point is? dont try to fudge the issue with irrelevant quotes. the brits for all intent obviously would like to withdraw its troops from malaysia since the indonesian konfrontasi is at an end....
but the undenialable fact of the matter is, by 1966 the brits were more concerned over a potential conflict between singapore and malaysia eversince singapore was separated from malaysia in less then friendly situation.
it was well known back then, tunku abdul rahman told the brits his intention to force singapore to toe malaysia's line by threatening to turn off the water tap. and in LKY latest memoir, he spoke of the fact that even though he was the PM of an independent singapore, in the begining he was literary place under malaysian army "guard" and his daily schedule such as cabinet meeting are being dictated by KL until the brits came to save his ass.
furthermore, its a well known fact then, that the british army presence in singapore was the only thing that ensured singapore's independence and prevented LKY chestnut from being roasted over the KL bonfire.
Now you are claiming FPDA is meant to contain Malaysia. Lagi best! Why not 4PDA to protect Singapore only?
as i said, the purpose is to put a leash over malaysia, what better way is there to keep malaysia under the leash then to have malaysia become part of the "consultative body"?? just use your brain and think lah... if you still have any left.
were a 4PDA form just to protect singapore, malaysia would go amok and went on a emotional rampage and slam their heads into the wall, smokes will come out right from their ass, how is that gonna be beneficial to singapore security or keeping malaysia under leash?? hahahaaaa....
And it's funny you would rather trust Indonesia than trust Malaysia in war. Yeah, the US would've put an arms embargo on Msia, not Indonesia if you were right.
and you think that US who put an arms ambargo on indonesia would not dare to do the same to malaysia should malaysia fail to bend over every american demand????
you must be smoking with your ear... haahahaaa..... or you really think for one second that US fears malaysia more then they fear indonesia??? hahahahahaaa.......
Pure cock and bull. You mean the Mal-Indo declaration of the end of Konfrontasi on 28 May 1966? Sukarno started Kon against Malaysia in 1962, not Singapore which was not independent. In any case, "Formal relations between Singapore and Indonesia began with the establishment of a Singapore Liaison Office in December 1966. Both countries agreed to establish formal diplomatic relations at Ambassadorial level from 7 September 1967. (quote Sg govt)"
yeah... LKY is cock and bull, because he wrote that in his memoir, that he found out about the end of konfrontasi from the newspaper, and suddenly realised that now konfrontasi is between singapore and indonesia only, malaysia has conviently abandoned us and negotiated a settlement with indonesia without us.
lucky for us, indonesia suharto was willing to live and let live... or we would be truely in a bind, thanks to malaysia.
There are only two things in this forum that rile you up: Malaysia and me.
You on your own can't dream of beating either. Only dream of beating off.
dont think too highly of yourself...
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S'pore is one of the biggest oil refining and forex trading centres in the world..........
tons and tons of Western money in S'pore too...........
we can beg M'sia and Indonesia to invade us.........also they don't dare........
the West will bomb them back to the Stone Age.............
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
S'pore is one of the biggest oil refining and forex trading centres in the world..........
tons and tons of Western money in S'pore too...........
we can beg M'sia and Indonesia to invade us.........also they don't dare........
the West will bomb them back to the Stone Age.............
the WEST? PLEASE. i've said this before thousands of times and i'll happily say it again. Singapore doesnt NEED the west. with our own forces we can easily bomb the shit out of malaysia. mind you, SIngapore CAN invade and conquer malaysia, we HAVE the money, we HAVE the pre-emptive strike plans all done, we HAVE the power to do so. ASK yourselves this: to this very day, malaysia honours a watr agreement which it is running at a LOSS. WHY? because there was a time when LKY once told mahatair: if you ever cut off the water to singapore, we WILL invade, and you WILL lose. Here's some stats: singapore currently has the largest military budget in the whole of SE asia. PLUS, the strongest and largest navy and airforce in the whole of SE asia. PLUS, the second strongest economy in the whole of SE asia, losing to indonesia only in size, but not in stability and strength. When war breaks out, the nation whose economy can withstand a war and can strike first with the strongest air support wins. simple. bomb the shit out of KL? we dun nid the west for that. we got our own flyboys at the SAF to do that for us in a heart beat. You guys complain so much abt the so-called 'inflated' military budget of singapore, but let me remind, indonesia and malaysia ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS. the ONLY trump card we have over them is deterrence. go ask ur parents or yourselves. rmb the day indonesia landed paratroopers on our first national day? malaysia and indo joining together to wipe out the little fledgling called singapore? FORGOT? u think they're not gonna try again? -
so long as we maintain very good relations with CHINA....
it reminds the importance of vassal state since 13th century...
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Originally posted by Casopia-maplesea:
the WEST? PLEASE. i've said this before thousands of times and i'll happily say it again. Singapore doesnt NEED the west. with our own forces we can easily bomb the shit out of malaysia. mind you, SIngapore CAN invade and conquer malaysia, we HAVE the money, we HAVE the pre-emptive strike plans all done, we HAVE the power to do so. ASK yourselves this: to this very day, malaysia honours a watr agreement which it is running at a LOSS. WHY? because there was a time when LKY once told mahatair: if you ever cut off the water to singapore, we WILL invade, and you WILL lose. Here's some stats: singapore currently has the largest military budget in the whole of SE asia. PLUS, the strongest and largest navy and airforce in the whole of SE asia. PLUS, the second strongest economy in the whole of SE asia, losing to indonesia only in size, but not in stability and strength. When war breaks out, the nation whose economy can withstand a war and can strike first with the strongest air support wins. simple. bomb the shit out of KL? we dun nid the west for that. we got our own flyboys at the SAF to do that for us in a heart beat. You guys complain so much abt the so-called 'inflated' military budget of singapore, but let me remind, indonesia and malaysia ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS. the ONLY trump card we have over them is deterrence. go ask ur parents or yourselves. rmb the day indonesia landed paratroopers on our first national day? malaysia and indo joining together to wipe out the little fledgling called singapore? FORGOT? u think they're not gonna try again?what i'm saying is.............we no need SAF at all...........
and save tons of money................
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
what i'm saying is.............we no need SAF at all...........
and save tons of money................
lol. the west and nato is on the other side of the world. and australia doesnt even have a stable army, let alone air force. i doubt the UN or the USA is gonna do anything, while china basically wont care abt SE asia politics. -
SAF is a deterrent....useful or not...as a citizen, it represents the foundation of sovereignty...however small it is....