There won't be any nukes, would there be?
Originally posted by Bio-Hawk:There won't be any nukes, would there be?
bush fire already close down indon airport and bring haze to singapore, what do you think the nuke would do?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:bush fire already close down indon airport and bring haze to singapore, what do you think the nuke would do?
Take care of problems very fast.
I know they want to develop their military.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:You can quote from Sun Tzu, but you need to know how to apply.
You want to subdue your enemy without fighting - but when your enemy sinks your ship, and you dare not resist, you are subdued already, and it is they who have broken your resistance. the indon must have learnt from SunTzu.
When they attack and sink your ship, and they know you won't fight back, they've already won.
The thread only asked for the outcome, didn't say anything about why indon want to wage war on us, so I guess what indon get out of it is not important.
Your answer is clear, when indon wages war on spore, spore willl not fight back.
My answer is also clear, when indon wages war on spore, spore will strike back.
Lets hope indon would never wage war on us.
Mancha's original question was:
"Suppose Indon ship open fire and sink RSN ship in supposedly Indon territorial waters, who will help spore? And who will join Indo?"
If full-scale war is in progress, this question would be pointless.
The question presumes a state of war has yet to break out. Whether to escalate to full-scale war is a choice.
What is your strategy? Full scale war or selective strikes, occupy limited territory or land on Java?
Originally posted by mancha:Can anyone care to elaborate on these qsns?
1) Why would Indo ever want to wage war on Singapore?
Distraction. To distract the local populace from the ills of the country. Label Singapore as the Jews of South East Asia, and the cause of Indon economic downturn, and the population can be made to wave their fist at Singapore.
2) By what means could they invade Singapore?
Air drop. The did that once, paratroops were dropped at Tuas, Lim Chu Kang area. But it turn out to be their Bay of Pigs. But most probably it would be another Konfrontasi.
1) They do anything more beyond waving their fist and they will grow hungry for years. Singapore is an economic imperialist in the region if you haven realise. Malaysia is financially healthier than indon, but still cannot survive without Singapore. we form the bulk of investment in M'sia and Indo.
In the event that anything happens, we can and we will instantly pull the plug. Factories will be shutted down immediately, and these people will lose their jobs. Additional unemployment will only give these government headaches, since unemployment is always a big issue in these countries.
2)Air drop. are you joking?
Back in the 1950s it is still possible, with our military being backwards and primitive.
Today, our radar, civilian and military, would have plucked you out from miles away.
Missiles, fighters might still be able to get past our defence. But troop-carrying aircraft? They are slow, and theres 600miles to travel. and they have few functional military planes. they are just sitting ducks to be shot down if they even try.
and Tuas and Lim Chu Kang are another joke right?
One is a heavily guarded naval base, and the 2nd is exercise grounds of the SAF, and home to a couple of camps, and is of relative unimportance as a KINs. they can capture and sabotage lim chu kang for all we care, until we wipe them out.
This is just like the situation between China and Taiwan. Taiwan is dependent on China, but not vice versa.
China has the option of both attacking and retaliation when attacked.
Taiwan can only afford to retaliate after an attack. If it attacks, it will lose its weapon source, loses its economic ties, and becomes weaker militarily and economically.
It does not attack, because it cannot afford to.
Same for indonesia, if it attacks Spore, there will be confirmed loss of equipment due to damage. and worst of all, the resulting arms embargoes will ensure that these lost equipments will not be replaced, thus weakening the defence of the entire archipelago. I think countries like Papua New Guinea would seize the chance of procuring the entire island, instead of the present half it owns. Not to mention China, who will occupy wherever that is resource-rich.
Originally posted by deathmaster:1) They do anything more beyond waving their fist and they will grow hungry for years. Singapore is an economic imperialist in the region if you haven realise. Malaysia is financially healthier than indon, but still cannot survive without Singapore. we form the bulk of investment in M'sia and Indo.
In the event that anything happens, we can and we will instantly pull the plug. Factories will be shutted down immediately, and these people will lose their jobs. Additional unemployment will only give these government headaches, since unemployment is always a big issue in these countries.
2)Air drop. are you joking?
Back in the 1950s it is still possible, with our military being backwards and primitive.
Today, our radar, civilian and military, would have plucked you out from miles away.
Missiles, fighters might still be able to get past our defence. But troop-carrying aircraft? They are slow, and theres 600miles to travel. and they have few functional military planes. they are just sitting ducks to be shot down if they even try.
and Tuas and Lim Chu Kang are another joke right?
One is a heavily guarded naval base, and the 2nd is exercise grounds of the SAF, and home to a couple of camps, and is of relative unimportance as a KINs. they can capture and sabotage lim chu kang for all we care, until we wipe them out.
This is just like the situation between China and Taiwan. Taiwan is dependent on China, but not vice versa.
China has the option of both attacking and retaliation when attacked.
Taiwan can only afford to retaliate after an attack. If it attacks, it will lose its weapon source, loses its economic ties, and becomes weaker militarily and economically.
It does not attack, because it cannot afford to.
Same for indonesia, if it attacks Spore, there will be confirmed loss of equipment due to damage. and worst of all, the resulting arms embargoes will ensure that these lost equipments will not be replaced, thus weakening the defence of the entire archipelago. I think countries like Papua New Guinea would seize the chance of procuring the entire island, instead of the present half it owns. Not to mention China, who will occupy wherever that is resource-rich.
What a dilemma. Indon has been nice to us because the economy has been doing well. If this continues for some time, they might afford the means to buildup. Luckily corruption will save the day for us.
Also, their economy is primitive and can go on without foreign investment. While Indon may be starved of arms, Singapore's arms must pass airspace and sea choke points that Indon will try to interdict from bases on its huge landmass.
Originally posted by alize:Mancha's original question was:
"Suppose Indon ship open fire and sink RSN ship in supposedly Indon territorial waters, who will help spore? And who will join Indo?"
If full-scale war is in progress, this question would be pointless.
The question presumes a state of war has yet to break out. Whether to escalate to full-scale war is a choice.
What is your strategy? Full scale war or selective strikes, occupy limited territory or land on Java?
No sure how an RSN could be sunk in Indon territorial water, but if there is no provocation, fire without warning, RSN ship taken by surprise...and all data shows that indon's attack is intentional, our only response is to strike back at the vessels or aircraft, selective strikes if you want to call it.
We will issue warning that any further hostile action will be dealt with decisively, and our initial action must prove that we can do it, and we are prepared to do it.
There is no need to escalate war, especially with Indon, where we can monitor if they are mobilizing for war. occupy bataam and bintan if there are signs that these could be used as staging point for an assault.
Land on Java? neh....we may get lost in there.
Originally posted by deathmaster:1) They do anything more beyond waving their fist and they will grow hungry for years. Singapore is an economic imperialist in the region if you haven realise. Malaysia is financially healthier than indon, but still cannot survive without Singapore. we form the bulk of investment in M'sia and Indo.
In the event that anything happens, we can and we will instantly pull the plug. Factories will be shutted down immediately, and these people will lose their jobs. Additional unemployment will only give these government headaches, since unemployment is always a big issue in these countries.
2)Air drop. are you joking?
Back in the 1950s it is still possible, with our military being backwards and primitive.
Today, our radar, civilian and military, would have plucked you out from miles away.
Missiles, fighters might still be able to get past our defence. But troop-carrying aircraft? They are slow, and theres 600miles to travel. and they have few functional military planes. they are just sitting ducks to be shot down if they even try.
and Tuas and Lim Chu Kang are another joke right?
One is a heavily guarded naval base, and the 2nd is exercise grounds of the SAF, and home to a couple of camps, and is of relative unimportance as a KINs. they can capture and sabotage lim chu kang for all we care, until we wipe them out.
This is just like the situation between China and Taiwan. Taiwan is dependent on China, but not vice versa.
China has the option of both attacking and retaliation when attacked.
Taiwan can only afford to retaliate after an attack. If it attacks, it will lose its weapon source, loses its economic ties, and becomes weaker militarily and economically.
It does not attack, because it cannot afford to.
Same for indonesia, if it attacks Spore, there will be confirmed loss of equipment due to damage. and worst of all, the resulting arms embargoes will ensure that these lost equipments will not be replaced, thus weakening the defence of the entire archipelago. I think countries like Papua New Guinea would seize the chance of procuring the entire island, instead of the present half it owns. Not to mention China, who will occupy wherever that is resource-rich.
I don't think Indon is that much dependent on Singapore. In a war, both sides suffer and we have to make sure that they suffer a lot more than we do.
In the unlikely event that there is an uprising due to poverty (especially when indon is a large country with very uneven distribution of wealth), or support for extremists (religious...) and the government of indonesia disintegrate, power taken over by rogue generals, then there may be a possibility of distraction, or diverting attention on domestic problem to spore. When there happen, there is no logical consideration.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:I don't think Indon is that much dependent on Singapore. In a war, both sides suffer and we have to make sure that they suffer a lot more than we do.
In the unlikely event that there is an uprising due to poverty (especially when indon is a large country with very uneven distribution of wealth), or support for extremists (religious...) and the government of indonesia disintegrate, power taken over by rogue generals, then there may be a possibility of distraction, or diverting attention on domestic problem to spore. When there happen, there is no logical consideration.
In fact the charismatic President Soekarno used Konfrontasi against Malaysia to distract the people against his mis-governance.
And they did air drop paratroopers into Western Singapore and Johore. It was a debacle, as the paratroopers received nil logistic support and largely surrendered from thirst and hunger.
That's why Confrontation does not rely on active hostilities but on economic degradation.
Those raiders were actually mostly inserted by sea into West Malaysia, paratroops were sent into Borneo.
They did manage to wipe out a Sing/Mal infantry patrol before they were themselves wiped out by another.
Yea, that patrol didn't take the situation seriously. They went for a swim, leaving their rifles aside, with no one watching for them. Then were having fun, naked in the river, and suddenly the Indons were there smiling at them, "well well well what do we have here"
The patrol was tortured, killled, mutilated and hung up on trees.
And in Borneo along the Sarawak border, the British SAS have AR15s with them, and surprise, surprise, the crack Indon unit there also had the US Armalite rifles.
I didn't hear about the mutilation part, but I heard it was a patrol from SIR, then called MIR when we were a part of Malaysia.
If I know the enemy is hardly in a position to take prisoners, I'd rather be shot attempting to fight back or at least to run.
indonesia really got no chance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements
Originally posted by Larry91:indonesia really got no chance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements
So conclusion: The above scenario is not possible, and therefore there is no basis/purpose for having this thread.
Mod, can you please close this thread.
Originally posted by Casopia-maplesea:Right now, Singapore can and already has an active invasion plan to invade and defeat Malaysia in less than four months. It can be done, and really, it is this very trump card that LKY waved in front of Mahatair when he made that vocal threat that if the day ever came when Malaysia cancelled, the water agreement, Singapore WILL invade. now ask urselves this: SO WHY to this day malaysia still honours that agreement?
Even WW2 already showed that technology overrules manpower. Hitler sent in a few men, the most advanced armoured divisions and in a three pronged pincer movement, wiped out the polish army, airforce and navy in less than two months. flat. within two months hitler used his armoured divisions to swarm over the whole of poland. Why? poland had no tanks, mere biplanes numbering in tens against hitler’s luftwaffe( over thousands of planes) and hell, their troops were still using pikes and muskets and ancient rifles.
Maybe you should distinguish betwen a war plan and an exit strategy.
Even if Malaysians are unarmed you need to ensure a friendly government will last, and get your citizen soldiers back to run the economy ASAP. Don't get started with Indonesia.
"Major combat operations" in Iraq more than 8 ended years ago.
Originally posted by alize:Maybe you should distinguish betwen a war plan and an exit strategy.
Even if Malaysians are unarmed you need to ensure a friendly government will last, and get your citizen soldiers back to run the economy ASAP. Don't get started with Indonesia.
"Major combat operations" in Iraq more than 8 ended years ago.
malaysia not iraq, singapore not US...
a friendly malaysian govt? think so far... i am not even sure malaysia will still be there.
Indonesia can have localised hostile actions against Singapore from the Riau Archepelago, while the rest of Indonesia continue as normal.
Singapore on the other hand would be in a state of war.
Who has the stamina for an exended military campaign?
Originally posted by tripwire:malaysia not iraq, singapore not US...
a friendly malaysian govt? think so far... i am not even sure malaysia will still be there.
Share your brilliant strategy?
Originally posted by mancha:Indonesia can have localised hostile actions against Singapore from the Riau Archepelago, while the rest of Indonesia continue as normal.
Singapore on the other hand would be in a state of war.
Who has the stamina for an exended military campaign?
When that happened, occupy the Riau Archepelago and bomb JKT from there. Indonesia will also be in a state of war. When countries are at war, nothing will continue as normal. When the american fought war in vietnam, their life was not normal when they see the body bags coming back.
Spore knows it has no land to fight a war, it cannot have an exended military campaign, its economy would come to a standstill in an all out war, it will take much longer time for an economic recovery following a war, even if it wins ....the question is not what can we do, but what should we do.
Originally posted by deathmaster:So conclusion: The above scenario is not possible, and therefore there is no basis/purpose for having this thread.
Mod, can you please close this thread.
Fully agree!!!