1. Indon sinking our ship is just like NK sinking ROK's ship. You can ask for justice and Indon will say come and get it, it's a big loss of face. It's easier for Sg to compensate its own servicemen and call it an accident. Furthermore politicians there are very good at turning ANYTHING into anti-Singapore sentiment.
2. If WE blew up a village, we should of course make restitution along the line of "we killed Indon citizens and we recognize the authority of the Indon govt to distribute the compensation" so they can dip their hands into it. Imagine if we paid 10X the sum directly, the politician would attack us for paying too little, say we are bullying poor villagers, don't respect human life blah blah...
For No.1. I don't think there would be compensation to the servicemen families. As I have said this is during hostilities, and if a war situation is declared, then there is no compensation payable. After the emergency, a token amount maybe payable, this is for vote winning. Emergency/war time casualties would not be taken as a peace time accident.
No.2 is a thought. Pay the Indon government so that the officials can skim from the top and whats left is filtered down. And alls well.
Yeah esp since elections are cancelled in war time.
Originally posted by alize:I never said anything about paying Indon for sinking our ship. I think you misread my post.
Singapore has always taken a "pragmatic attitude" and the security needs of Singapore will come before the needs of a rich Indonesian.
The money is unlikely to be completely clean, so in order to reassure other investors, this is what we will trumpet.
As mancha correctly pointed out, what is the situation are we talking about?
NK and SK are technically at war with one another, one round fired at the opposite side is a provocation of war, a round fired in return will likely escalate to a full scale war.
China and Taiwan are not technically at war. If Taiwan declare independence, then China will declare war.
The security needs of singapore come first, yes, our soverignty comes even before that. If indonesia thinks their dirty money has come into our bank, they will have to take it through legal means. Singapore has strict law against money laundering, and it is our court that decide if the money is clean or not, not any foreign authorities. That is what we trumpet!
If Indo decides to wage war on singapore, giving money, cutting territory....are all signs of weaknesses, like what the qing dynasty did, gave up macao to the portugese, HK to the brits, and taiwan to the jap. 丧国辱民. This is not pramatic, and it is not likely singapore would do, at least not under the present government.
Originally posted by alize:Yeah esp since elections are cancelled in war time.
do we need to elect a new government to fight for our sovereignty or we need a new government to pay money?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:they may cry war, but many have said that there is nothing to gain for them to actually mobilize for war. The cost for them will be much higher than it was 40 years ago.
Nowadays countries go for non war confrontation.
Such as boycott, stop importing of goods, ship out pple back to their own country, sanctions.
Originally posted by likeyou:Nowadays countries go for non war confrontation.
Such as boycott, stop importing of goods, ship out pple back to their own country, sanctions.
agree, that is similar to the "low-intensity, war of attrition that will slowly bleed Singapore dry" "Singapore would of course, try to limit the ability of my opponent to do this effectively."
Originally posted by sgdiehard: As mancha correctly pointed out, what is the situation are we talking about?NK and SK are technically at war with one another, one round fired at the opposite side is a provocation of war, a round fired in return will likely escalate to a full scale war.
China and Taiwan are not technically at war. If Taiwan declare independence, then China will declare war.
The security needs of singapore come first, yes, our soverignty comes even before that. If indonesia thinks their dirty money has come into our bank, they will have to take it through legal means. Singapore has strict law against money laundering, and it is our court that decide if the money is clean or not, not any foreign authorities. That is what we trumpet!
If Indo decides to wage war on singapore, giving money, cutting territory....are all signs of weaknesses, like what the qing dynasty did, gave up macao to the portugese, HK to the brits, and taiwan to the jap. 丧国辱民. This is not pramatic, and it is not likely singapore would do, at least not under the present government.
Yup. That's why when indon maids murder their employers, we pragmatically declare them insane and send them back.
I can foresee if a ship is sunk with 50 sailors dead, people here will be baying for blood. But our govt probably won't hiu them. This govt only knows to come up with some lame excuses nobody believes.
You seem to like bringing up the Qing govt- why is that?
The Qing govt indeed got cut to pieces because it was weak. But also because it tried to act strong even when it had no strength to act, it only furthered the process of being cut up.
Massacring foreigners, whether right or wrong, provoked further invasion. Refusing to consider British strength when the Brits offered to a lease a trading post, whether a fair or unfair offer, provoked a British invasion. Japan's first contact with China was over Taiwan, began when China treated Japan with disdain.
Originally posted by alize:Yup. That's why when indon maids murder their employers, we pragmatically declare them insane and send them back.
I can foresee if a ship is sunk with 50 sailors dead, people here will be baying for blood. But our govt probably won't hiu them. This govt only knows to come up with some lame excuses nobody believes.
You seem to like bringing up the Qing govt- why is that?
The Qing govt indeed got cut to pieces because it was weak. But also because it tried to act strong even when it had no strength to act, it only furthered the process of being cut up.
Massacring foreigners, whether right or wrong, provoked further invasion. Refusing to consider British strength when the Brits offered to a lease a trading post, whether a fair or unfair offer, provoked a British invasion. Japan's first contact with China was over Taiwan, began when China treated Japan with disdain.
We hanged philippino maid, we hanged vietnamese drugs peddlers, we have also convicted a malaysian drugs peddlers to death, now pending appeal to the president, we canned the american kids even when clinton pleaded, which indonesian maids that deserved to be hanged but got off free ?
if a RSN ship were sunk and you believe we will not do anything? I don't share the same belief.
Right or wrong, fair or unfair, is a very important critiria in deciding if the actions are justified. If you think a weak nation deserved to be cut into pieces, then we are not talking world of civilization, but a rule of the law of the jungle, or babarians in sheep cloth.
Beware, china is very strong now, and relatively there are many weak nations near and far.....they want trading posts, they want natural gas, they want to be heard, ....lan lan the whole world now start to learn mandarin.
Today is the centennial anniversary of the uprising that led to the toppling of Qing dynasty. It is most appropriate to bring up how a weak country, even with vast land and population, can be bullied by a strong country from thousands of miles away. The lesson learnt from the modern chinese history is that when a government is weak and allow foreigners to bully them, the people will rise up against them. when under foreign invasion, the people, both communists and nationalists would join force and fight against the japanese, any chinese, communist or nationalist, who help the japs, are considered traitors, 汉奸.
If Indonesia wage war against Singapore, will you join hand with the PAP against the invader?
Can anyone care to elaborate on these qsns?
1) Why would Indo ever want to wage war on Singapore?
2) By what means could they invade Singapore?
a) they don't need more land, with so much land lying around being unproductive back home.
b) Singapore has no resources. All wealth is digital, and can be transferred out of the country in seconds.
c) Singapore is swarming with Chinese, christians etc. I don't think Indo would want to add more of this people into their population. It already has enough problem dealing with chinese and christian issues back home.
d) Can they afford to fight a war? War need money you know.
e) Do they have the means to sustain an invasion? Do you expect to send thousands of troops by sampans? or fly by garuda airline? Last i heard, they lack troop carriers, ships and planes.
f) What do they gain from fighting with singapore? we are one of their biggest investors. Bite the hand that feed you, and you will starve.
g) Singapore mostly import from indo. we can easily change our supplier. on the other hand, it is harder for indo to find a new customer.
h) how long can they sustain an unpopular war? When the US wage war, they can bomb its enemy 24/7, with its factories churning out an unlimited supply of ammunition.
Indo is still a weapon importer. It can launch all the missiles and bombs it wishes. but once they run out, there will be no one to sell new supplies. and its very likely to be subjected to an arms embargo.
Conclusion: For small developing countries, war is a luxury, fought only when you have very powerful backers, or if both countries are of little worth to the world.
Can anyone care to elaborate on these qsns?
1) Why would Indo ever want to wage war on Singapore?
Distraction. To distract the local populace from the ills of the country. Label Singapore as the Jews of South East Asia, and the cause of Indon economic downturn, and the population can be made to wave their fist at Singapore.
2) By what means could they invade Singapore?
Air drop. The did that once, paratroops were dropped at Tuas, Lim Chu Kang area. But it turn out to be their Bay of Pigs. But most probably it would be another Konfrontasi.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:We hanged philippino maid, we hanged vietnamese drugs peddlers, we have also convicted a malaysian drugs peddlers to death, now pending appeal to the president, we canned the american kids even when clinton pleaded, which indonesian maids that deserved to be hanged but got off free ?
if a RSN ship were sunk and you believe we will not do anything? I don't share the same belief.
Right or wrong, fair or unfair, is a very important critiria in deciding if the actions are justified. If you think a weak nation deserved to be cut into pieces, then we are not talking world of civilization, but a rule of the law of the jungle, or babarians in sheep cloth.
Beware, china is very strong now, and relatively there are many weak nations near and far.....they want trading posts, they want natural gas, they want to be heard, ....lan lan the whole world now start to learn mandarin.
Today is the centennial anniversary of the uprising that led to the toppling of Qing dynasty. It is most appropriate to bring up how a weak country, even with vast land and population, can be bullied by a strong country from thousands of miles away. The lesson learnt from the modern chinese history is that when a government is weak and allow foreigners to bully them, the people will rise up against them. when under foreign invasion, the people, both communists and nationalists would join force and fight against the japanese, any chinese, communist or nationalist, who help the japs, are considered traitors, 汉奸.
If Indonesia wage war against Singapore, will you join hand with the PAP against the invader?
Are you so desperate as to say I condone right and wrong, when this thread is discussing an invasion? An aggressive Indon is not interested in right and wrong.
Michael Fay: sentenced to 6 strokes, received 4 after President Ong intervened on Clinton's behalf. More -at least 8- Indon maids have succeeded in pleading insanity than not. That's real pragmatism. PS, the "Vietnamese" peddler was a Vietnamese Australian.
You hold yourself out as a proponent of China, quoting Chinese wisdom, yet you are not aware of Qing China's resistance to colonial powers. And shown in the Taiwan thread you were not even aware of the Chinese Civil War or the Sino-Soviet split.
Qing China only accepted the unequal treaties after defeat in the Opium Wars. Qing ministers advised their Dowager to support the Boxer Rebellion to annihilate Westerners. Qing soldiers were brave, but they were doomed by superior Western firepower- and most of all by their Dowager, who had never taken "no" for an answer and never knew the limits of her power.
The correct response to Indonesia sinking our ship is not war. The object of war is to preserve life and sovereignty. Take the self-compensation of our servicemen as achieving the same objective at a fraction of the cost and without spending any lives.
It is better to enter into negotiations with Indon, tell them we will view this as an accident if they pay some compensation, or even charge their skipper with negligence and if he actually gets one year jail it's a bonus. Tell them we will restrict trade, military relations, support for Indon interests at the UN and ASEAN. I can tell you that if Indon blatantly sinks our ship, Malaysia and Australia will also be alarmed.
Follow this up with a massive firepower demonstration in the Singapore Straits. Clear out the container ships for a few days and turn the water black with gunpowder. Hold a joint air and ground exercise in Darwin. Add some "accidental" airspace instrusions.
At the end of the day, Singapore is safe. The SAF is still available to defend Singapore. If TNI wants to invade, they gotta overcome the military gap first. We move on as a nation, while those corrupt fuckers in charge there are all about money. Let them continue to wallow in their own situation while we feel like a winner.
Can anyone care to elaborate on these qsns?
1) Why would Indo ever want to wage war on Singapore?
To a very extreme and highly sensitive issues involving religions where religions was been manipulated.
Originally posted by alize:Are you so desperate as to say I condone right and wrong, when this thread is discussing an invasion? An aggressive Indon is not interested in right and wrong.
Michael Fay: sentenced to 6 strokes, received 4 after President Ong intervened on Clinton's behalf. More -at least 8- Indon maids have succeeded in pleading insanity than not. That's real pragmatism. PS, the "Vietnamese" peddler was a Vietnamese Australian.
You hold yourself out as a proponent of China, quoting Chinese wisdom, yet you are not aware of Qing China's resistance to colonial powers. And shown in the Taiwan thread you were not even aware of the Chinese Civil War or the Sino-Soviet split.
Qing China only accepted the unequal treaties after defeat in the Opium Wars. Qing ministers advised their Dowager to support the Boxer Rebellion to annihilate Westerners. Qing soldiers were brave, but they were doomed by superior Western firepower- and most of all by their Dowager, who had never taken "no" for an answer and never knew the limits of her power.
The correct response to Indonesia sinking our ship is not war. The object of war is to preserve life and sovereignty. Take the self-compensation of our servicemen as achieving the same objective at a fraction of the cost and without spending any lives.
It is better to enter into negotiations with Indon, tell them we will view this as an accident if they pay some compensation, or even charge their skipper with negligence and if he actually gets one year jail it's a bonus. Tell them we will restrict trade, military relations, support for Indon interests at the UN and ASEAN. I can tell you that if Indon blatantly sinks our ship, Malaysia and Australia will also be alarmed.
Follow this up with a massive firepower demonstration in the Singapore Straits. Clear out the container ships for a few days and turn the water black with gunpowder. Hold a joint air and ground exercise in Darwin. Add some "accidental" airspace instrusions.
At the end of the day, Singapore is safe. The SAF is still available to defend Singapore. If TNI wants to invade, they gotta overcome the military gap first. We move on as a nation, while those corrupt fuckers in charge there are all about money. Let them continue to wallow in their own situation while we feel like a winner.
I desperate? for what?
I China proponent? why would quoting a simple chinese wisdom and using china history as example make me a china proponent?
I dont know Qing's resistance to colonial power? whatever you know, the fact is that they were weak against the colonial power. and that should not justify the demand by the western powers for land from china. Right or wrong, fair or unfair is your statement.
Back to the question, if indo sink our ships, do we compensate our own servicemen and call it an accident?
Originally posted by alize:Are you so desperate as to say I condone right and wrong, when this thread is discussing an invasion? An aggressive Indon is not interested in right and wrong.
Michael Fay: sentenced to 6 strokes, received 4 after President Ong intervened on Clinton's behalf. More -at least 8- Indon maids have succeeded in pleading insanity than not. That's real pragmatism. PS, the "Vietnamese" peddler was a Vietnamese Australian.
You hold yourself out as a proponent of China, quoting Chinese wisdom, yet you are not aware of Qing China's resistance to colonial powers. And shown in the Taiwan thread you were not even aware of the Chinese Civil War or the Sino-Soviet split.
Qing China only accepted the unequal treaties after defeat in the Opium Wars. Qing ministers advised their Dowager to support the Boxer Rebellion to annihilate Westerners. Qing soldiers were brave, but they were doomed by superior Western firepower- and most of all by their Dowager, who had never taken "no" for an answer and never knew the limits of her power.
The correct response to Indonesia sinking our ship is not war. The object of war is to preserve life and sovereignty. Take the self-compensation of our servicemen as achieving the same objective at a fraction of the cost and without spending any lives.
It is better to enter into negotiations with Indon, tell them we will view this as an accident if they pay some compensation, or even charge their skipper with negligence and if he actually gets one year jail it's a bonus. Tell them we will restrict trade, military relations, support for Indon interests at the UN and ASEAN. I can tell you that if Indon blatantly sinks our ship, Malaysia and Australia will also be alarmed.
Follow this up with a massive firepower demonstration in the Singapore Straits. Clear out the container ships for a few days and turn the water black with gunpowder. Hold a joint air and ground exercise in Darwin. Add some "accidental" airspace instrusions.
At the end of the day, Singapore is safe. The SAF is still available to defend Singapore. If TNI wants to invade, they gotta overcome the military gap first. We move on as a nation, while those corrupt fuckers in charge there are all about money. Let them continue to wallow in their own situation while we feel like a winner.
If indonesian oil tanker ramped and sank an RSN ship, that is an accident.
If indonesian naval vessel fired and sank a Singapore fishing boat, that can be an accident, or a provocation.
If indonesian naval vessel fired and sank an RSN gunboat, that is an act of war. What accident?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I desperate? for what? To refute what you see as a weak course of action. As shown, Singapore has pragmatically bowed down to foreign powers.
I China proponent? why would quoting a simple chinese wisdom and using china history as example make me a china proponent? Quoting you, you have said that China has not waged wars of aggression, that the Taiwanese "minority" should subject itself to Chinese "majority", that pan-Chinese union due to its spiritual importance to "all Chinese" is more important than recognised political differences.
I dont know Qing's resistance to colonial power? whatever you
know, the fact is that they were weak against the colonial power.
and that should not justify the demand by the western powers
for land from china. Right or wrong, fair or unfair is your
statement. Still talking about right and wrong? I didn't bring up right or wrong. I said Qing China got into trouble for not knowing the limits of its power. Look at Japan: weak like shit, smaller than China. West came, Japan practiced diplomacy to buy time while modernizing with Western tech, and then kicked China and the Western powers' asses. Aware of that?
Back to the question, if indo sink our ships, do we
compensate our own servicemen and call it an
accident? As stated above you can recognise it as an accident or the act of a rogue captain without going to war. Even if the President ordered the provocation, why should you let the provocation succeed? Obviously my suggestion to avoid starting a war, threatening political action and demonstrating SAF's ability to defend Singapore is a better idea.
Singapore has often made punches well above its weight and size. There is not much to refute. do you think hanging a few poor indonesian maids will really make singapore stand tall as a sovereign country? I rather believe in what the doctors said about the ill mental health of these poor village girls.
When your warship got sunk, you compensate your own servicemen and call it an accident, that is a weak course of action, to put it very mildly, to put it more appropriately, your balls shrink, the fact is, it is an act with no balls! today, even the phililppines, with its pathetic navy, would not "compensate its own servicement and call it an accident" if their warship got sunk by the Chinese.
"Knowing the limits of its power" is not an excuse to bow down to foreign power!! If indonesia is a power you need to bow, you should first bow to the abang up north, and you will never see light, for your head will forever be bowed.
What political action can possibly be effective against a rogue general? how to demonstrate SAF's ability if you cannot use it, or worse, your ship got sunk and you call it accident?
The purpose of a strong SAF is to ensure a strong deterrence. For a strong deterrence to be effective, we not only need the SAF to be strong, we must show that we are prepared to use it.
you start lebelling me as a china proponent, get your facts right, and recognise the situation.
China has not waged wars of aggression, true or false?
Who are the Taiwanese "minority" are you talking about? the indigenous 山地人，or the Chinese immigrated from Hokkien generations ago? To the Chinese as a whole, this is a family affair. Outsiders should wish for a peace in the family and stay out of their dispute. Who are you to say that "minority" should not submit to the "majority"?
what is "pan-Chinese union" to you? is political differences more important than any other thing? Just remember, they don't want to share their beds, do you?
I dont' want to talk about history of china here, just say that my impression of what you have posted so far is that china deserved to be invaded by foreign powers, because they din't know their limits. Correct me if I am wrong.
China has not waged wars of aggression, true or false?
Whether you are a China proponent is not under discussion. But your question shows you are not aware of China's invasion of Tibet in 1951, support for Khmer Rogue and the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. China claiming Tibet is like Thailand claiming its former tributary state of Kelantan.
Who are the Taiwanese "minority" are you talking about? the indigenous 山地人，or the Chinese immigrated from Hokkien generations ago? To the Chinese as a whole, this is a family affair. Outsiders should wish for a peace in the family and stay out of their dispute. Who are you to say that "minority" should not submit to the "majority"?
Your pen draws the circle to include Taiwanese residents and exclude outsiders. What is your basis to draw the Taiwanese and mainland Chinese in one circle? I suggested that Communist jurisdiction has never set foot on Taiwan unlike how KMT jurisdiction once included all China, and as you said, before that it was historically non-Chinese aboriginal land. On what basis, other than colour and language, do Chinese on the other side of China comprise the "majority" in this "family"?
if alize wages wage war on sgdiehard, what is the likely outcome?
if sgdiehard wage war on alize, what is the likely outcome?
Both suffer mental lost. Peace and shake hand is the best solution.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Singapore has often made punches well above its weight and size. There is not much to refute. do you think hanging a few poor indonesian maids will really make singapore stand tall as a sovereign country? I rather believe in what the doctors said about the ill mental health of these poor village girls.
When your warship got sunk, you compensate your own servicemen and call it an accident, that is a weak course of action, to put it very mildly, to put it more appropriately, your balls shrink, the fact is, it is an act with no balls! today, even the phililppines, with its pathetic navy, would not "compensate its own servicement and call it an accident" if their warship got sunk by the Chinese.
"Knowing the limits of its power" is not an excuse to bow down to foreign power!! If indonesia is a power you need to bow, you should first bow to the abang up north, and you will never see light, for your head will forever be bowed.
What political action can possibly be effective against a rogue general? how to demonstrate SAF's ability if you cannot use it, or worse, your ship got sunk and you call it accident?
The purpose of a strong SAF is to ensure a strong deterrence. For a strong deterrence to be effective, we not only need the SAF to be strong, we must show that we are prepared to use it.
On the other hand, most of the Filipino maids did not succeed in pleading insanity and received their deserved sentences. The Filipino people are simply not as hostile to us. And there's still Singapore's special and exclusive kindness to Michael Fay.
Taking military action in Indon happens in the ideal world. Even South Korea and USA with their military might do not retaliate in kind, yet their servicemen and civilians have been shot numerous times by North Korea. The price is simply too high to pay.
Since you propose military action, do you intend to go all the way and topple their government? If you do not, suppose you bomb a few targets, the country will be inflamed with ill-feeling towards Singapore. The government is never going to back down without inflicting something back on you. Please outline your next step?
Military action is not the only way to make the enemy pay a price, other political measures can make them regret their deeds. It is to be exercised when other measures cannot be employed.
If your country continues to exist, appropriately punishes the other country, and exists to show every day that it is progressing while the other stands still, it is a better victory.
Being well aware of Chinese history, you should be familiar with these quotes of Sun Tzu:
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” or "Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
Originally posted by likeyou:if alize wages wage war on sgdiehard, what is the likely outcome?
if sgdiehard wage war on alize, what is the likely outcome?
Both suffer mental lost. Peace and shake hand is the best solution.
when war starts, how do you know who wages war on whom ?
there is no mental lost, just a clearer picture on how others can think so differently from you.
there is no problem, so no solution is needed.
Originally posted by alize:On the other hand, most of the Filipino maids did not succeed in pleading insanity and received their deserved sentences. The Filipino people are simply not as hostile to us. And there's still Singapore's special and exclusive kindness to Michael Fay.
Taking military action in Indon happens in the ideal world. Even South Korea and USA with their military might do not retaliate in kind, yet their servicemen and civilians have been shot numerous times by North Korea. The price is simply too high to pay.
Since you propose military action, do you intend to go all the way and topple their government? If you do not, suppose you bomb a few targets, the country will be inflamed with ill-feeling towards Singapore. The government is never going to back down without inflicting something back on you. Please outline your next step?
Military action is not the only way to make the enemy pay a price, other political measures can make them regret their deeds. It is to be exercised when other measures cannot be employed.
If your country continues to exist, appropriately punishes the other country, and exists to show every day that it is progressing while the other stands still, it is a better victory.
Being well aware of Chinese history, you should be familiar with these quotes of Sun Tzu:
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” or "Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
The Filipino people are simply not as hostile to us. Neither are the Indo people hostile.
suppose you bomb a few targets, the country will be inflamed with ill-feeling towards Singapore. we hanged a philippino maid for murder, the whole country burnt our flag. We hanged the indo who bombed macdonald house, the whole country went up in arms against us. We have experience this before. We don't have to cow tow for fear of them inflicting something back on us.
Taking military action in Indon happens in the ideal world. The thread is "if indonesia wages war on spore.." it is very different from "taking military action in indon". We are on different starting point. Apparently what you believe is that whatever military action taken against is only accident, and spore can only respond with negotiation, cow tow....defensive actions are never an option?
Originally posted by alize:On the other hand, most of the Filipino maids did not succeed in pleading insanity and received their deserved sentences. The Filipino people are simply not as hostile to us. And there's still Singapore's special and exclusive kindness to Michael Fay.
Taking military action in Indon happens in the ideal world. Even South Korea and USA with their military might do not retaliate in kind, yet their servicemen and civilians have been shot numerous times by North Korea. The price is simply too high to pay.
Since you propose military action, do you intend to go all the way and topple their government? If you do not, suppose you bomb a few targets, the country will be inflamed with ill-feeling towards Singapore. The government is never going to back down without inflicting something back on you. Please outline your next step?
Military action is not the only way to make the enemy pay a price, other political measures can make them regret their deeds. It is to be exercised when other measures cannot be employed.
If your country continues to exist, appropriately punishes the other country, and exists to show every day that it is progressing while the other stands still, it is a better victory.
Being well aware of Chinese history, you should be familiar with these quotes of Sun Tzu:
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” or "Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
You can quote from Sun Tzu, but you need to know how to apply.
You want to subdue your enemy without fighting - but when your enemy sinks your ship, and you dare not resist, you are subdued already, and it is they who have broken your resistance. the indon must have learnt from SunTzu.
When they attack and sink your ship, and they know you won't fight back, they've already won.
The thread only asked for the outcome, didn't say anything about why indon want to wage war on us, so I guess what indon get out of it is not important.
Your answer is clear, when indon wages war on spore, spore willl not fight back.
My answer is also clear, when indon wages war on spore, spore will strike back.
Lets hope indon would never wage war on us.
Originally posted by alize:China has not waged wars of aggression, true or false?
Whether you are a China proponent is not under discussion. But your question shows you are not aware of China's invasion of Tibet in 1951, support for Khmer Rogue and the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. China claiming Tibet is like Thailand claiming its former tributary state of Kelantan.
Who are the Taiwanese "minority" are you talking about? the indigenous 山地人，or the Chinese immigrated from Hokkien generations ago? To the Chinese as a whole, this is a family affair. Outsiders should wish for a peace in the family and stay out of their dispute. Who are you to say that "minority" should not submit to the "majority"?
Your pen draws the circle to include Taiwanese residents and exclude outsiders. What is your basis to draw the Taiwanese and mainland Chinese in one circle? I suggested that Communist jurisdiction has never set foot on Taiwan unlike how KMT jurisdiction once included all China, and as you said, before that it was historically non-Chinese aboriginal land. On what basis, other than colour and language, do Chinese on the other side of China comprise the "majority" in this "family"?
Our understandings of China and its history are very different. I don't know anything about Thailand claiming Kelantan, so can't see the why it is compared to tibet and China.
To me china today consists of over 34 different kind of people, including the Hans, it is not about colour and language. In fact, the only common thing among these people is the written chinese.
china is definitely not defined by politics or nationality, are you part of the family?