Roman - Han Chinese
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Hi All,
I am completely new to this forum. I was doing research for an article for a Wargaming magazine (Miniature Wargames in the UK) and came across and old topic regarding Han Chinese & The Roman Emperor Trajan, posted by Texcoco II.
I would like to use this thread as a basis for my synopsis for the article, and would happily post pictures of the armies as I get them done for the article.
Now, i do not want to step on anyone's toes, so if there is an outrage for me using this content in an article I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks from Snowy Denmark
Viking
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All I read is that during the reign of Han Wudi, his troops got fairly far west after overcoming the Xiongnu, and his troops were said to have encountered blonde troops who were supposedly the captives of the Parthians. There were even supposed to be descendents of these Romans in the Chinese west today.
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no doubt the Han is many more times stronger than Rome when it comes to military numbers............
Scenario 1 :
the Romans invaded during the 3 Kingdoms...............they attack Wei in a joint invasion with Shu................
Scenario 2 :
Han Emperor decided to attack the Romans to show them who's the boss...........Cao Cao led an army of 500'000 men.............upon seeing the moving forest of spears..........the Romans surrendered without a fight........
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In the articles No Roman needed...
Many of the villagers have Western characteristics including green eyes and blonde hair leading some experts to suggest that they may be the descendants of a lost Roman legion that settled in the area.
Now DNA testing of the villagers has shown that almost two thirds of them are of Caucasian origin.
If the “Roman Chinese” are genuinely Roman, they will have this specific southwest European ancestry, which will put them at a distinction from the Uyghurs
But hold your breath itachinos..................
The modern Uyghurs are a clear hybrid population. In the papers published on the Uyghurs they shake out as about a 50/50 West/East Eurasian mix.
The Chinese-like element may simply be that the proto-Uyghurs were already admixed with the Han populations, or, that that element has a geography-conditional cline where the Yakuts are at an extreme
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
no doubt the Han is many more times stronger than Rome when it comes to military numbers............
Scenario 1 :
the Romans invaded during the 3 Kingdoms...............they attack Wei in a joint invasion with Shu................
Scenario 2 :
Han Emperor decided to attack the Romans to show them who's the boss...........Cao Cao led an army of 500'000 men.............upon seeing the moving forest of spears..........the Romans surrendered without a fight........
I have never heard of this battle or of Romans having a battle with a Chinese army. Can you provide documentation for this. I will look for some myself but this certainly looks hard to believe. I however have many times learned things that were very hard to believe.
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Originally posted by Gary oak77:
I have never heard of this battle or of Romans having a battle with a Chinese army. Can you provide documentation for this. I will look for some myself but this certainly looks hard to believe. I however have many times learned things that were very hard to believe.
just a scenario i dreamed of lah............TS say he wants people to come up scenarios for his story or game mah...........
### Rome how to compare with the Han ????
the entire Roman Empire only had a few hundred thousand soldiers at its peak...........no more than 300-400K at most..............
the Han had several times that..............
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:Where did you get your facts from ? Are you sure you didn't simply dream themm up ? Rome sontrolled almost all of the middle east and Europe,North Africa etc.....and their army was very well trained.
just a scenario i dreamed of lah............TS say he wants people to come up scenarios for his story or game mah...........
### Rome how to compare with the Han ????
the entire Roman Empire only had a few hundred thousand soldiers at its peak...........no more than 300-400K at most..............
the Han had several times that..............
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if you read about the battles involving the Roman army they hardly ever number over 100K in a single battle...........mostly under 80K............
the Han army was frequently able to field armies 200-300K.............
even during the Warring States...........all the kingdoms were able to have armies of 100K or more...........
don't forget China back then had the biggest population in the world......
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
if you read about the battles involving the Roman army they hardly ever number over 100K in a single battle...........mostly under 80K............
the Han army was frequently able to field armies 200-300K.............
even during the Warring States...........all the kingdoms were able to have armies of 100K or more...........
don't forget China back then had the biggest population in the world......
Don'[t forget that whenn the foreign armies were marching up from the Tianjin River they wer blocked off by a huge Chinese army 5 times larger than the foreign contingent. Of the Foreign contingent the Japanese charged the Chinese forces and the Chinese forces ran. The Japanese would have been outnumbered ten to one or more.
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alamak...........we talking about ancient times lah brudder............not the high-tech Japs against no-tech chinese around WW2..........
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But don't forget that Roman Armies were able to fight of numerically superior foes through formation drills and good use of calvaries.
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300 against a Million of Persians?
What you guys think?
In terms of superior forces? -
300 was just a movie.............in history Leonidas had close to 7000 troops............and there were never 1 million Persians..........about 200K plus.........
also they were fighting at a narrow chokepoint...............
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
But don't forget that Roman Armies were able to fight of numerically superior foes through formation drills and good use of calvaries.
then why they avoided Hannibal for 10 years............they probably waited until Hannibal become senile...........LOL
dead formations are no match for flexible tactics.........they'll be easily surrounded...........cut off from food and water.........they'll surrender without fighting...........
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
alamak...........we talking about ancient times lah brudder............not the high-tech Japs against no-tech chinese around WW2..........
What did they teach you in kindergarten ? The opium wars ! I am talking about 1840 -
we're talking about the times of the Romans and Han..............you goon !
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
then why they avoided Hannibal for 10 years............they probably waited until Hannibal become senile...........LOL
dead formations are no match for flexible tactics.........they'll be easily surrounded...........cut off from food and water.........they'll surrender without fighting...........
The Romans didn't amass such a huge empire by being easily surrounded and surrendering. If a han dynasty army took them lightly the Romans this lightly they wouldn't had a chance. The Han CHinese did however have an impressive empire themselves and they themselves were extended to their maximum as well . They had ongoing battles with Tibetans, Manchurians,Mongolians turks etc... -
don't forget the people around the Romans were at that time very low-tech...........if the Romans and the Han were to clash when they're both at their peaks..........there can only be one winner...........
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Originally posted by Asromanista2001:
don't forget the people around the Romans were at that time very low-tech...........if the Romans and the Han were to clash when they're both at their peaks..........there can only be one winner...........
Maybe neither would be winners. Carthage, Egypt,Greece, India Persia etc...? None of t hese places were low tech -
According to Stanford university both the Han chinese and the Roman Empire had roughly the same population...
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Originally posted by hohmann:
According to Stanford university both the Han chinese and the Roman Empire had roughly the same population...
Furthermore:
Annual metal output in metric tons
Roman Empire: Iron 82,500... Copper 15.000... Lead 80.000... Silver 200
Han China: Iron 5.000... Copper Negligible...Lead Negligible...1
Which in turn means that the Han army couldnt possible equip their huge armies at the same standards of the roman army.
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Roads ( important to battles ) --- Rome: 250,000 miles (400,000 km) of roads, including more than 50,000 miles (80,500 km) of paved roads.
Han China: The Han road system, mostly unpaved, was 22,000 miles
It appears that the Han empire was fortunate to be so far away from Rome.
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LOL...........keep on believing that............
Furthermore:
Annual metal output in metric tons
Roman Empire: Iron 82,500... Copper 15.000... Lead 80.000... Silver 200
Han China: Iron 5.000... Copper Negligible...Lead Negligible...1
Which in turn means that the Han army couldnt possible equip their huge armies at the same standards of the roman army.
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Roads ( important to battles ) --- Rome: 250,000 miles (400,000 km) of roads, including more than 50,000 miles (80,500 km) of paved roads.
Han China: The Han road system, mostly unpaved, was 22,000 miles