Is F15 the right choice
-
read from those magazines on fighter aircraft that F15 was beaten by Su-30 and Typhoon.... in simulated air combat
The one on typhoon said 2 typhoon take on 8 F15 and 1 shot down 4 while the other took out 3
how true or accurate are those simulate games compared to real life combat?
Did we really purchase a less capable outdated fighter?
The F15 record of 101 - 0 knock out is history liao ?
Or F15 is combat proven while the other 2 are not?
-
it's the right choice as long as it's American...............it's all about politics and economics when buying weapons..............we have to suck up to the right people...............
not gonna go to war anyway so won't matter even if 20 F15 is no match for one SU-30.................
-
Originally posted by Gaosung:
read from those magazines on fighter aircraft that F15 was beaten by Su-30 and Typhoon.... in simulated air combat
The one on typhoon said 2 typhoon take on 8 F15 and 1 shot down 4 while the other took out 3
how true or accurate are those simulate games compared to real life combat?
Did we really purchase a less capable outdated fighter?
The F15 record of 101 - 0 knock out is history liao ?
Or F15 is combat proven while the other 2 are not?
dude, its now 104-0.And yes, the F-15 as a strike plane is still rather relevant because of its flexibility and growth space. Which is really ironic, because the F-15 was never designed with strike in mind (Not a pound for air-to-ground!), but then its 2 huge-ass engines are probably a key factor.
And in aerial combat, a high thrust-to-weight ratio never goes out of fashion.
Considering that kill-ratio that's unmatched by any plane till now was achieved by just under 400 planes, the F-15 is the most effective fighter the world has seen to date.
Of course, that it has possibly and probably been surpassed is not surprising for a design from the 1960s. But the F-15 has found a niche role as a strike plane and in this, it is still highly relevant even till today.
And as the USAF has found out, it is hard to justify the purchasing of the freaking expensive F-22s when the job could have still be done by the cheaper F-15s (even though they aren't VERY cheap either).
-
its a status symbol aircraft....F15 looks more like a scaled down F14 tomcat.its really beautiful piece of aircraft that would be apprciated in the future due to its sleek shape.it really looks better than an F16.F15 would be in hands of wealthy aircraft collectors in time to come.
aircrafts are still no match for cheaper and more intelligent drones.
-
The F-15SG is not outdated. Its airframe design is "old" cos it was a 60s design. However, it has been re-designed to accommodate a two man crew and made extensive use of modern materials.
Also, the "stuffing" of the F-15SG is also brand new, and incorporates 4.5generation fighter technology. You have new AESA radars, and faster computers for processing. New avionics and weapons. The F-15SG is by no means an "old" plane.
-
the new F-15 also is now ipod compatible, right ?
the guy in the back also now can watch dvd and play playstation3 now hor ?
-
the other 2 planes we had in mind was a typhoon and rafale if im not wrong.. but then again we were always going to buy the american planes..
and besides the f15 or f18 i dont think there was any other choice cause the f22 was definitely not for sale and way out of our budget... and since the f15 was known as a air to air fighter, its more of a direct replacement for our f5's.
-
The Typhoon and Rafale are extremely capable aircraft. But I think the F15 SG was selected because it already had a proven multirole capability and was available in the time frame specified by the RSAF. Also it was to be fitted with the AESA radar. There was also a wide range of effective air to ground and air to air weapons available for carriage on the F15SG
I do not think it is was a question of "we were always going to buy the american planes.." but rather the F15 SG was the correct choice at that point in time for a highly effective and proven multirole aircraft. One to one against the Typhoon or Rafale or a SU30 , I personally think that these aircraft will defeat the F15 most of the time provided that the pilots are of similar quality.
If the F35 program is further delayed or becomes too expensive, I personally wud think that the Typhoon will be a better bet. Within the next ten years it will have AESA , Meteor and a much more effective air to ground capability. It also has more growth potential than the 60s era F15s.
-
Originally posted by Gaosung:
read from those magazines on fighter aircraft that F15 was beaten by Su-30 and Typhoon.... in simulated air combat
The one on typhoon said 2 typhoon take on 8 F15 and 1 shot down 4 while the other took out 3
how true or accurate are those simulate games compared to real life combat?
Did we really purchase a less capable outdated fighter?
The F15 record of 101 - 0 knock out is history liao ?
Or F15 is combat proven while the other 2 are not?
A lot of people still quoting from old study and simulation done before Typhoon and Rafale was even build. These are not totally accurate as they are use to justify budget for building these fighters.
If base on rumors, the lastest would be out from Dubai. F-22 vs rafale - 5 draw : 1 and rafale vs typhonn 7:1.
The F-15 actually have more advance and powerful radar, engine and other modern equipments compare wtih Typhoon or SU-30. The body design also have been totally redesign at F-15E stage. Thus it is really a 4.5 gen equip within a 3.5 generation body. It just become more deadlier.
I think it will more then a match even with tyhpoon or SU-30, since it have prove itself against the agile Mig-29. F-15 kill include 9 MiG-29 Fulcrums (includes one maneuver kill).
F-15 have the range, able to stay in air longer then the rest of planes.
Also most important - Our F-15 have all the technology to all the high tech weapon of both air-to-air and air-land already avaibable. Sadly typhoon and rafale was not chosen as they still have not resolved their capacity to carry a lot of these weapons and it is still unknow when these capacity will be available or they have fund to do it. Why wait 10 years for typhoon or rafale - AESA , Meteor and a much more effective air to ground capability - when F-15 already flying with them or something similar.
F-15 is the best option for us to go. Yes typhoon and rafale may still growing but F-15 to is growning - with the slient eagle.
With F-35 still hanging - possible the better choice would be for RSAF to go for slient eagle.
-
In the near future , if F35 still in limbo, RSAF will have F16 ( upgraded ) and F15 SG ( or maybe Silent Eagle ) mix.
In the longer term the mix shud be F35s and I wud personally prefer Typhoons ( as they wud have matured sufficienty to exceed F15s by a big margin ). Typhoon also because it is new generation aircraft , has much better growth potential , carries Meteor & probably a better range of more capable air to ground weapons.
Finally, depending soely on USA aircraft for all RSAF fighter needs is risky.
-
Originally posted by stellazio:the other 2 planes we had in mind was a typhoon and rafale if im not wrong.. but then again we were always going to buy the american planes..
and besides the f15 or f18 i dont think there was any other choice cause the f22 was definitely not for sale and way out of our budget... and since the f15 was known as a air to air fighter, its more of a direct replacement for our f5's.
S'pore will buy American no matter what...................France has no political/economic clout while we're more dependent on US politically/economically than the Eurozone...........
we would buy the F15 even if the Rafale with 1 wing less can still outperform the F15
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
S'pore will buy American no matter what...................France has no political/economic clout while we're more dependent on US politically/economically than the Eurozone...........
we would buy the F15 even if the Rafale with 1 wing less can still outperform the F15
An F-15 once flew home minus one wing.I would like to see a Rafale do that.
-
Originally posted by Sepecat:
In the near future , if F35 still in limbo, RSAF will have F16 ( upgraded ) and F15 SG ( or maybe Silent Eagle ) mix.
In the longer term the mix shud be F35s and I wud personally prefer Typhoons ( as they wud have matured sufficienty to exceed F15s by a big margin ). Typhoon also because it is new generation aircraft , has much better growth potential , carries Meteor & probably a better range of more capable air to ground weapons.
Finally, depending soely on USA aircraft for all RSAF fighter needs is risky.
Sepecat,
I disagree with you that typhoon have a better growth protential.
It is already behind F-15 in equipment, radar ... etc which is operational but Typhoon yet to have a confirm date.
Must remember as US unwilling to sell F-22 and F-35 is proving to expensive and not worth the money, already seeing boeing turning to the F-15 slient eagle as an alternative.
F-15 will alway have better growth potentail then typhoon - remember size does matter - it will have the ability to intergrate bigger and more power radar that require more powerful powerplant.
After the slient eagle - it is possible next boeing will look into changing the wings and some other surface of f-15 toward F-22 style. -
Originally posted by SBS2601D:
An F-15 once flew home minus one wing.I would like to see a Rafale do that.
what i'm saying is no matter how lousy the F15 is or how good the Rafale is.............S'pore will buy American...............the same guys that control US also control us.............
-
i think sometime you need to let the expert reviewed the flight Data to come to that conclusion as there are factors not only from a maneuverability of the plane but also pliot experiences.
There are probably a lot more Datas to study on the Maneuverability of F-15 than Typhoon. and the Su.
I also think it is not necessary a price point factors decision but rather the availabities as mention and overall intergrating RSAF....
-
SAF using any new non-American combat planes or choppers right now?
-
Its also about after sale service and spare parts and upgrades. The planes are already outdated and are supposed to last at least a few decades more.
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
what i'm saying is no matter how lousy the F15 is or how good the Rafale is.............S'pore will buy American...............the same guys that control US also control us.............
just as its naive to believe politics play no part, it is also naive to keep thinking in that track of yours.The F-15 and Rafale were designed for different things in the very first place even though their roles now somewhat overlap. Can't you see that? The F-15 is a significantly larger plane with superior range, space for additional equipment, larger payload. The F-15 was never meant to be a multi-role plane although it was found that its 2 huge engines and its size made it suitable as one in the form of the Strike Eagle.
When you consider that the F-15 shares the same engines as the F-16, and when you consider its range and payload, of course it makes more sense to purchase the F-15. Both were meant to complement each other in any case.
-
so will S'pore ever buy Russian weapons ?..................LOL
-
Like I said, Ignorance is Truly Bliss.
You dont even know what Russian weapons Spore has. You must be non Sporean.
-
got buy Russian planes or choppers meh ? they are the big-ticket items........
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sepecat,
I disagree with you that typhoon have a better growth protential.
It is already behind F-15 in equipment, radar ... etc which is operational but Typhoon yet to have a confirm date.
Must remember as US unwilling to sell F-22 and F-35 is proving to expensive and not worth the money, already seeing boeing turning to the F-15 slient eagle as an alternative.
F-15 will alway have better growth potentail then typhoon - remember size does matter - it will have the ability to intergrate bigger and more power radar that require more powerful powerplant.
After the slient eagle - it is possible next boeing will look into changing the wings and some other surface of f-15 toward F-22 style.Storywolf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Storywolf
Unless you are a Boeing salesman nobody will wolf down a
story that F15 has a better growth potential than Typhoon.
There is only so much you can do for a 1970s vintage
aerodynamics / airframe design. The F15 has almost reached
reached the end of the line where growth potential is concerned
especially in this area.
You must also remember that there are equipment such as IRST
which is already fully integrated into the Typhoon but is an
afterthought in the an upgraded F15.
The delays in Typhoon are in truth political rather than
technological. There are no major technical barriers to install
very advanced radars in the Typhoon.
The US is only unwilling to sell the F22 & not the F35.
At I believe US$200 or more each, nobody can afford the F22 anyway.
The F35 has had major setbacks in its development program &
as a result has resulted in very significant cost overruns. The US &
Boeing clearly want to sell the F35 and it is also touted as a replacement
for so various aircraft in the US or Allied inventory including F16,s A10s,
AV8, FA18 etc etc. The issue now is cost & timing of delivery, but
eventually the F35 will be mainstay of the US & perhaps Allied inventory.
Changing the wings etc of an F15 is tantamount to designing a
new aircraft. The entire aerodynamics will have to be changed and
this is exactly what I meant earlier than there is not much growth potential
left in this area.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
got buy Russian planes or choppers meh ? they are the big-ticket items........
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly you have got this whole issue mixed up with another country
-
Originally posted by Sepecat:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sepecat,
I disagree with you that typhoon have a better growth protential.
It is already behind F-15 in equipment, radar ... etc which is operational but Typhoon yet to have a confirm date.
Must remember as US unwilling to sell F-22 and F-35 is proving to expensive and not worth the money, already seeing boeing turning to the F-15 slient eagle as an alternative.
F-15 will alway have better growth potentail then typhoon - remember size does matter - it will have the ability to intergrate bigger and more power radar that require more powerful powerplant.
After the slient eagle - it is possible next boeing will look into changing the wings and some other surface of f-15 toward F-22 style.Storywolf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Storywolf
Unless you are a Boeing salesman nobody will wolf down a
story that F15 has a better growth potential than Typhoon.
There is only so much you can do for a 1970s vintage
aerodynamics / airframe design. The F15 has almost reached
reached the end of the line where growth potential is concerned
especially in this area.
You must also remember that there are equipment such as IRST
which is already fully integrated into the Typhoon but is an
afterthought in the an upgraded F15.
The delays in Typhoon are in truth political rather than
technological. There are no major technical barriers to install
very advanced radars in the Typhoon.
The US is only unwilling to sell the F22 & not the F35.
At I believe US$200 or more each, nobody can afford the F22 anyway.
The F35 has had major setbacks in its development program &
as a result has resulted in very significant cost overruns. The US &
Boeing clearly want to sell the F35 and it is also touted as a replacement
for so various aircraft in the US or Allied inventory including F16,s A10s,
AV8, FA18 etc etc. The issue now is cost & timing of delivery, but
eventually the F35 will be mainstay of the US & perhaps Allied inventory.
Changing the wings etc of an F15 is tantamount to designing a
new aircraft. The entire aerodynamics will have to be changed and
this is exactly what I meant earlier than there is not much growth potential
left in this area.
Typhoon have IRST, F15Sg also have tiger eye IRST.
F-15sg already have AESA radar - current Typhoon ?
payload ? Range ? - Can Typhoon even come close - please tell me there is no major technical barriers .