in actual fact, China and US are closest of allies.................just like during the Cold War, US and USSR were the closest of allies............
all these supposed rivalry is all made up to fool the rest of the world................consider this..........
a few years ago, there were incidents reported in the press about Chinese subs getting incredibly close to US carriers................and also Russian bombers flying directly overhead US carriers..............
you don't get that close to US carriers unless you're damn sure you're not gonna be fired on..............and the US carriers' captains would have attacked unless they were damn sure their carriers would come to no harm...........
the whole idea was to make people think China and Russia are rivals to US.....................a 'mindfuck' operation................
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Every country watches out for their own self interests, when the europeans and americans started colonising and exploiting asia did they care about us? When the UK fought in the opium wars was their purpose to save people or to sell drugs? The chinese are still behind the USA in terms of military tech, USA is afraid that its interests might be threatened thats why make a lot of noise
Of course the everyone watches out for ther own self interest .... just that in this case the US's interests coincides with ours and the regions'.
I'm sure countries around the region would much rather have the 7th fleet patrolling the south china sea than see the whole of the south china sea under chinese domination. Mind you, Arapahoe is right, China has unilaterally claimed the whole of the south china sea, disregarding the interests, claims and EEZs of all the litoral states in the south china sea. Go dig out any map of the south china sea on the chinese web, and take a look.
Or do you think it's much more politic to swing behind the rising bully of the block already ?
I wonder who will come to our aid if malaysia attacks?
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I wonder who will come to our aid if malaysia attacks?
our doctrine is to count on ourselves .....
but if you have served already ... you would have heard of the incident in the early 90s when the racist mamak they had in power in malaysia back then threatened to invade. Reservists were called up, arms and ammo were drawn and mines were laid in tuas.Go speak to the old birds, this really did happen.
But apparently, bush senior made a phone call to malaysia and parked a US carrier off mersing ...
There were other incidents, the last one I know being in 1998, over the CIQ issue. They actually had live firing exercises involving paratroopers in southern johor during our national day. It was locked and loaded then too. Our neighbourhood is not a simple place dude.
Originally posted by As romanista2001:in actual fact, China and US are closest of allies.................just like during the Cold War, US and USSR were the closest of allies............
That's nonsense.
Oh my goodness, I am very very scared leh... not being sarcastic, I am really very worried, what if one day China defeats the U.S.A and much of the western powers after a conflict, and goes forward to conquering countries in South East Asia, like Vietnam , Malaysia and SINGAPORE? And it is very easy for them to do it because China has 200 million army men...
Originally posted by Larryteo:Oh my goodness, I am very very scared leh... not being sarcastic, I am really very worried, what if one day China defeats the U.S.A and much of the western powers after a conflict, and goes forward to conquering countries in South East Asia, like Vietnam , Malaysia and SINGAPORE? And it is very easy for them to do it because China has 200 million army men...
Haha Singapore majority chinese, not as bad.
Btw is it really true Malaysia really nearly invade Singapore once in the 1990s? Anyone got the article here ? I don't think MAL that stinking corrupt country ruled by fags have enough manpower and $$$ to invade us leh. We shoot down their penis towers in KL they cry like babies already.
Originally posted by Larryteo:Btw is it really true Malaysia really nearly invade Singapore once in the 1990s? Anyone got the article here ? I don't think MAL that stinking corrupt country ruled by fags have enough manpower and $$$ to invade us leh. We shoot down their penis towers in KL they cry like babies already.
Not in the 1990s but just before Singapore got kicked out - during the tense months before 9 August 1965.
When the Malay ULTRA leadership that were plotting to takeover UMNO could not succeed in launching a surprise coup de'tat on Singapore with two battalions of the Royal Malay Regiment based in Johor - and have the entire Singapore State Cabinet arrested - there was no choice but to kick LKY and Singapore out of Malaysia.
The Royal Malay Regiment was stopped by then UK Prime Minister Harold Wilson, who warned Tunku Abdul Rahman that military means should not be used to resolve the tense political situation between the political leadership in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.
The leverage that Harold Wilson had was that he threatened to withdraw British Military Forces deployed to help defend Malaysia against Indonesia Konfrontasi campaign.
This was the reason for the mad rush to build up a credible defense force when independence was effected - to prevent any possibility of a change of mind by the Malaysian leadership.
The intense attention given to Singapore's Defense remain unrelenting since 1965.
Its true that Malaysia wanted to invade Singapore in 1965 but were stopped by the British.
Don't count on any country helping us out when we are threatened with invasion or war. Singapore's philosophy is to defend ourselves and NOT depend on outside help.
Critically, we are a very small nation & a mere dot on the map. On the world stage, we will not be seen as the aggressor if we attack to defend ourselves.
Originally posted by Fatum:Of course the everyone watches out for ther own self interest .... just that in this case the US's interests coincides with ours and the regions'.
I'm sure countries around the region would much rather have the 7th fleet patrolling the south china sea than see the whole of the south china sea under chinese domination. Mind you, Arapahoe is right, China has unilaterally claimed the whole of the south china sea, disregarding the interests, claims and EEZs of all the litoral states in the south china sea. Go dig out any map of the south china sea on the chinese web, and take a look.
Or do you think it's much more politic to swing behind the rising bully of the block already ?
yeah i recalled back in the 90s Indonesia was shock to find the claim goes all the way down to their sea....
From what I see Taiwan needed those weapons to protect themselves and who else but USA dare to offend China at this moment. To USA, it is a Win/Win situation, they earn from the arm sales, get themselves military allies in that region and looks humane for taiwan's Democratic survivor.
US arms sales crucial for Taiwan
By Doug Bandow
Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010
The Obama administration is preparing a new arms package for Taiwan. Ironically, selling weapons to Taipei may be the best way for Washington to get out from the middle of one of the world’s potentially most volatile relationships — the one between China and Taiwan.
Relations between the two are improving, yet the former continues to point more than 1,300 missiles at the latter. The threat of military force remains a backdrop to expanding economic and tourist contacts across the Taiwan Strait.
The US is positioned uneasily between them. Formally committed to the principle of one China and providing weapons to Taiwan for its defense, Washington cannot easily square the circle. As the People’s Republic of China (PRC) grows in economic strength and international influence, pressure will grow on the US’ relationship with Taipei.
Taiwan’s precarious situation was demonstrated by the transformation of Bush administration policy. By the end of his term former US president George W. Bush was holding back arms from Taiwan and limiting transit by Taiwan’s president across US territory — as had Bill Clinton.
The election of President Ma Ying-jeou (馬英ä¹�) in March 2008 was greeted with relief in Beijing and Washington. Ma has downplayed Taiwan’s quest for a separate international identity and promoted ties with China.
Yet the underlying substantive issues remain unchanged. The PRC sees only one outcome, whether the result of negotiation or ultimatum: Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.
In contrast, Ma, no less than his predecessor, opposes submitting Taiwan to rule by the PRC.
At some point China’s patience is likely to fade. Continuing arms sales may be the best hope of forestalling conflict.
During the Cold War no one doubted the US’ will and ability to prevent the PRC from attempting to conquer or intimidate Taiwan. Neither is certain any longer.
Go to war with China and the 21st century looks a lot uglier, even if the US handily wins round one. And round one no longer would be a slam-dunk.
While the PRC cannot, at least for the foreseeable future, match US military power, it can create a substantial deterrent capability, sharply raising the potential cost of US intervention. Beijing’s increasing ability to sink US carriers with submarines and missiles alone would force any president to hesitate sending the Seventh Fleet into the strait for battle.
As protecting Taiwan goes from being a guaranteed freebie to a potential catastrophe, Taipei will no longer be able to rely upon the US. Taiwan has been a good friend for many years, but few US presidents would decide to protect Taipei if doing so put Los Angeles and New York at risk.
Arms sales offer the best path out of the Taiwan thicket.
In 2001 the Bush administration offered Taiwan a US$12 billion weapons package. For political purposes, the then opposition-dominated legislature blocked the purchases.
Then the Bush administration showed its pique with former president Chen Shui-bian (陳水æ‰�) by freezing arms sales to Taipei. The result was to accelerate the already disturbing erosion of Taiwan’s defensive capabilities.
Taiwanese weakness could be dangerous. Should the PRC grow impatient — and believe that victory would be swift and bloodless — the temptation to act could prove overwhelming.
Of course, even fulfilling Taiwan’s “wish list” would not enable it to defeat China in a full-scale war. But Taipei needs sufficiency rather than equality — a military capable of making any attempt at coercion more costly than the likely benefits of victory.
So far China has been cautious and pragmatic in exercising its increased diplomatic influence and military power. Taiwan needs enough military force with enough capabilities to reinforce these good instincts.
Before leaving office the Bush administration resumed arms sales. Now a new deal is in the works. The PRC responded that the US “should respect China’s core interests.”
Nevertheless, there should be no US retreat from the principle of selling Taipei the weapons that it needs for its defense. Taiwanese have built a free and democratic society. They deserve access to the tools that will enable them to defend that society.
Moreover, the best strategy for ensuring a peaceful resolution of Taipei’s status is a robust Taiwanese defensive capability. Selling arms is a far better option than intervening militarily in any conflict.
To presume that China, with far more at stake than the US, will forever back down would be a wild gamble. Whether Chinese concerns are driven more by nationalist passions or geostrategic concerns, the more direct Washington’s involvement, the more dangerous Beijing’s likely response. And there would be no greater calamity than a war between the US and China.
The US should not be expected to risk major war with nuclear powers to protect other states, however friendly or democratic. But Washington can help other nations defend themselves. Selling weapons to Taiwan would empower it without inserting the US into any cross-strait crossfire.
I believe the Chinese are testing the Obama Administration's resolve on Taiwan issue. Weapons sold to Taiwan or in the pipeline are mainly defensive in nature anyway.
Seems that U.S is determined to divide China and Taiwan, prevent unification.
just wondering if China managed to knock down most of US satellites.. will the US military go "blind"??
Unlikely to "blind". It will impair situation awareness but there's still other sensors eg radar, radio, aircraft pods etc.
What is the down side to US arms sales to Taiwan? If none, it will.
What is the down side to China taking a hard-line against US arms sales to Taiwan? If none, it will.
Its a cost-benefit analysis. If there is sufficient cost to US arms sales, it will not sell arms. If chinese keep quiet, US will sell more arms. Both will ratchet support for their side until a balance is achieved.
Why the hell must the U.S care so much? Their coutnry is already full of homosexuals and racists and they can't even take care of it, but now they want to run Asia? Absurd.
My 3 take is Much of US current position on Taiwan is still base on preservation of the Status quo. If no political progress made within the region.
The historical Cold War guessing game.....
Tucker writes that strategic ambiguity, first adopted under former US President Dwight Eisenhower, is intended "to keep friend and foe, Taipei and Beijing, guessing about the circumstances under which the US might intercede in a military conflict in the Strait." Arguably, the policy has contributed to stability in East Asia and the preservation of the status quo.
Overtime this has changed during the years to Taiwan relations Act maintaining defensive capabilities. And these days maintaining defend to serves the political end at the negociating table to preventing PRC from taking an economics hardline position especially they are the world producer.
My other takes is that In recent times.....
China has clock up enough bad names on serveral international issues such as armed supply to Zimbawe had to turn back the shipped from port, Suden, Iran, and most recently climate snub to the international leaders during the Cophen climate event. A US President has to literally hunt down Chinese premier to sit down forcely for an carbon emmission statement.
It may have suggested to the US state department that althought the Chinese may be an economics power house but it is not ready to take up the responsibilities without direct interest.
The regions perspective
North Korea as a leverage chip used by PRC. The continue negociation of the 6 party talks continue to drag on without much improvement. and of course now they have to dealt with leadership changed. I think US would still maintain ROC as a leverage.
Originally posted by weasel1962:Unlikely to "blind". It will impair situation awareness but there's still other sensors eg radar, radio, aircraft pods etc.
What is the down side to US arms sales to Taiwan? If none, it will.
What is the down side to China taking a hard-line against US arms sales to Taiwan? If none, it will.
Its a cost-benefit analysis. If there is sufficient cost to US arms sales, it will not sell arms. If chinese keep quiet, US will sell more arms. Both will ratchet support for their side until a balance is achieved.
I thought it was impressive to shoot down something that is a size of a school bus about 20ft in lenght. from a Cruiser. I know that the chinese did it land base. I also think that it is possible whoever can knock out the Satellite tracking of satellite determind the outcome of the conflict.
A US Navy cruiser in the Pacific Ocean will try to shoot down an out-of-control spy satellite the size of a school bus and loaded with a toxic fuel as it begins its plunge to Earth, national security officials have revealed.
China very angry now.
US sell arms to Taiwan to get rid of old arms.
Taiwan need arms to defend themselves from possible invasion by other countries.
Now, it getting messy and complicated.
Dont play play with China.
They are chinese (western consider chinese as a weak opponent), but they are ruthless if war arising.
Dont play play America.
Originally posted by likeyou:China very angry now.
US sell arms to Taiwan to get rid of old arms.
Taiwan need arms to defend themselves from possible invasion by other countries.
Now, it getting messy and complicated.
Dont play play with China.
They are chinese (western consider chinese as a weak opponent), but they are ruthless if war arising.
Dont play play America.
well look at the economics front money collect from Taiwan pay interest debt to PRC....
everybody win....
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
I thought it was impressive to shoot down something that is a size of a school bus about 20ft in lenght. from a Cruiser. I know that the chinese did it land base. I also think that it is possible whoever can knock out the Satellite tracking of satellite determind the outcome of the conflict.
A US Navy cruiser in the Pacific Ocean will try to shoot down an out-of-control spy satellite the size of a school bus and loaded with a toxic fuel as it begins its plunge to Earth, national security officials have revealed.
I agree. Despite all the hot air in the UN about not weaponising space... that is clearly another battleground.
China is angry because (Toy'R) US sell firecrackers to her kid at her backyard.
US never keep her promise.... one hand say recognise 1 China yet dare to sell weapons to taiwan .... that is really a gangster country ..never honor her promise ... just like our neighbor e.g. during CLOB time.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I wonder who will come to our aid if malaysia attacks?
the Zionist Jewish bankers will get the Americans here in a heartbeat................S'pore is the Israel of Southeast Asia.........
S'pore don't need SAF at all.................other people will be more anxious than us since they've so much money here..................
it's not physically possible to defend S'pore anyway............M'sian fighter jets will be overhead in less than half a minute..............our airbase/air force will be gone..............GAME OVER............
let's not forget our food and water problem.............the desalination plant can be knocked out easily.
Originally posted by As romanista2001:in actual fact, China and US are closest of allies.................just like during the Cold War, US and USSR were the closest of allies............
all these supposed rivalry is all made up to fool the rest of the world................consider this..........
a few years ago, there were incidents reported in the press about Chinese subs getting incredibly close to US carriers................and also Russian bombers flying directly overhead US carriers..............
you don't get that close to US carriers unless you're damn sure you're not gonna be fired on..............and the US carriers' captains would have attacked unless they were damn sure their carriers would come to no harm...........
the whole idea was to make people think China and Russia are rivals to US.....................a 'mindfuck' operation................
you guys think my above comments is nonsense............??
when USSR was still around, FORD was operating the world's largest truck factory in USSR for a long time...............
Communism was a creation of Zionist bankers....the same bankers that bankrolled Marx (a jew).............the same bankers that own the Federal Reserve............
the US gave USSR nuclear technology...........