RMAF phasing out MIG-29s by end-2010
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The Malaysian newspaper, The Star had reported that the ‘Malaysian Parliament was informed of plans to phase out the 18 units of MIG-29s by end-2010, even as these planes were purchased in 1993’ (*1)
With the phasing out of the chronic MIG-29s, it will result in a depleted ‘RMAF List of Aircraft Types’ (*2) - that will have a combat fleet of only 8 units F-18 Hornets and 18 units of SU-30s.
Will the FPDA be left with a gap in the air defense of the Malaysian-Singapore air space that require the RMAF to guard the northern sector ?
With the high cost in maintaining the MIG-29s, one will wonder if the SU-30s require a similar sized budget to keep the planes flying.
It is interesting to note the comments reported that new aircraft types from the US, France, Sweden or Britain will be considered - and much will depend on the state of the Malaysian economy.
From the experience gained, it will be a surprise if further Russian planes are to be considered.
Published: Wednesday October 28, 2009 MYT 2:51:00 PM
Parliament: MiG-29s to be phased out by end-2010
By ZULKIFLI ABD RAHMAN and LOH FOON FONG
KUALA LUMPUR: The Royal Malaysian Air Force’s (RMAF) MiG-29 fighter jets will be gradually phased out and replaced by new interceptor aircraft by Dec 31 2010 due to rising operational and maintenance costs, Defence Minister Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said.
He said replacement aircraft was needed due to increasing maintenence costs and that the MiG-29s were nearing their lifespan limit of 10 years. Two such aircraft had also crashed in 1998 and 2005.
Zahid said only 10 MiG-29s will be used for airspace defence and this will be reduced to six aircraft until December next year.
“The Government will save RM260mil per year in maintenance costs and these savings will be used to maintain other types of aircraft in the RMAF inventory,” he told Datuk Abd Rahman Dahlan (BN-Kota Belud).
Abd Rahman also asked why Malaysia had bought the MiG-29s.
“Malaysia bought the MiG-29s at a relatively low price, but later on the RMAF had to contend with higher expenses in spare parts replacement and maintenence work,” he added.
Zahid replied that when Malaysia bought 18 MiG-29 aircraft in 1993, the jet was considered the most capable and versatile fighter aircraft that could be obtained at the time.
He also said that each MiG-29 needed to undergo preventive and restoration work which cost RM10mil and RM7mil for engine overhaul every year after it completes a flight time of between 1,000 hours and 4,000 hours.
“The MiG-29s will be replaced by 18 Russian-made Sukhoi SU30MKM fighter jets which the Government had just acquired,” he added.
Later, at the Parliament lobby, Zahid the cost to maintain the MiGs was too high because the jets also needed to be sent to Russia for overhaul work.
Zahid said many countries have also moved towards obtaining fighter jets with multi-role combat capabilities.
“We are assessing whether to get the new jets from the United States, France, Sweden or Britain. The purchase will also depend on the country’s economic recovery,” he added.
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From 1995 to 2007, MY was defended by 18 Migs (- 2 for accidents) and 8 F-18s (from 1997). Going forward, it will be 18 suks and 8 F-18s. No change in numbers but the suks are better than the migs.
Having said that, so long as the migs are in inventory ie not sold or scrapped, they'll still be in reserve if kept in flying condition....
Missiles (if still within shelf life) used for the Migs can also be used for the suks so that may not be wasted either.
Having said that, the article can be used for the next PSLE math qn.
Bought in 1993.
Now nearing 10 years limit...
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Eh, primary school PSLE math questions are tougher than this these days lor.
Besides, mothballing is gonna cost them money also. Why bother.. sell it to some African basket case who can probably use it once or twice more before it breaks into pieces.
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18 Migs is a lie, 2 of them crashed so they're left with 16.
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Maths problem aside - that probably can be explained for the insistence in teaching this subject in 'Bahasa Malaysia' - there must be a reason for the factual error in the statement that "the aircraft is nearing its lifespan of 10 years".
Still to his credit, the Minister was correct in mentioning that two out of 18 MIG-29 had crashed in 1998 and 2005.
Out of the remaining 16 units, he did mention that only 10 units will continue to fly until end-2010, when only six will remain.
In 2005, there was an earlier report that six MIG-29s were being cannibalised to keep the present 10 planes flying.
From recent known practices, by the end of 2010, out of the 10 units, four planes will probably be cannibalised to keep the remaining 6 units in operating condition.
At this rate, they will have to work out the economics between mothballing, or have one aircraft to be cannibalised to keep two flying.
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Simultaneous equation time.....
India bought Mig-29 in 1986. Still flying in 2009. Soon to extend service life for 25-40 year.
Qn: What is the lifespan of Mig-29s?
Ans: 10 years. Why? Cos 10-year series compulsory for anyone taking PSLE lah....
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To be fair to the RMAF, cannibalizing of components to keep the needed aircraft flying is quite common even with reputable air forces such as that of Indian Air Force with their MIG-21s, and even the ‘South Koreans are cannibalizing F-15K due to lack of spares’ (*1) - which had arisen from lack of reliable forecasts of the requirements.
Still it is surprising that prior to the RMAF acquiring the MIG-29s, and considering that they had the opportunity to work with the Indian Air Force, the fact that the Indian Air Force had so much reliability issues with their MIG-29s was not considered by the RMAF even at that stage.
To the credit of the Indian Air Force and the supporting agencies, they managed to keep the MIG-29 operational, and is a front line combat aircraft stationed along the sensitve India-Pakistan border region.
‘To extend the service life of IAF MiG 29 by 25 to 40 years, the RAC MiG aircraft corporation signed a contract with India's Ministry of Defence to upgrade over 60 fighters in service with the IAF since the 1980s.’ (*3) - even as the RMAF is planning to phase out their MIG-29s acquired in 1993.
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The suks aren't that much better either. IAF fleet grounded by tyre shortage.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4344467
"Considerable funds have been invested over the past few years to develop the military-industrial complex. So far the results are mediocre," - President Medvedev
"The quality of military production for the Russian army and foreign exports is causing justified concern from clients," - industry minister
Don't be surprised if the rmaf F-18Ds are still flying when the suks are gone.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
To be fair to the RMAF, cannibalizing of components to keep the needed aircraft flying is quite common even with reputable air forces such as that of Indian Air Force with their MIG-21s, and even the ‘South Koreans are cannibalizing F-15K due to lack of spares’ (*1) - which had arisen from lack of reliable forecasts of the requirements.
Still it is surprising that prior to the RMAF acquiring the MIG-29s, and considering that they had the opportunity to work with the Indian Air Force, the fact that the Indian Air Force had so much reliability issues with their MIG-29s was not considered by the RMAF even at that stage.
To the credit of the Indian Air Force and the supporting agencies, they managed to keep the MIG-29 operational, and is a front line combat aircraft stationed along the sensitve India-Pakistan border region.
‘To extend the service life of IAF MiG 29 by 25 to 40 years, the RAC MiG aircraft corporation signed a contract with India's Ministry of Defence to upgrade over 60 fighters in service with the IAF since the 1980s.’ (*3) - even as the RMAF is planning to phase out their MIG-29s acquired in 1993.
People have often forgotten what they traditional definition of a MiG is.
"MiG = Single Seat, Single Engine, Single Use"
Cursed be any operators of MiGs that attempt to expand beyond this. =D
Fact is, aircraft like the MiG-29s and their RD-33s were not designed to last pretty long. Design was focused on rapid production rather than serviceability.
Doesn't really explain why the latest Su-30s have the same problem though. Only thing I can think of is the way their industries are tooled.
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They've money to spludge on subsidise palm oil and petrol to Malaysian (The amt tallies more than the MiG's budget) and they say no money to maintain?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
People have often forgotten what they traditional definition of a MiG is.
"MiG = Single Seat, Single Engine, Single Use"
Cursed be any operators of MiGs that attempt to expand beyond this. =D
Fact is, aircraft like the MiG-29s and their RD-33s were not designed to last pretty long. Design was focused on rapid production rather than serviceability.
Doesn't really explain why the latest Su-30s have the same problem though. Only thing I can think of is the way their industries are tooled.
Dual engined migs include the -25 and -31. There were like thousands of twin engined Mig-19s operated by the Chinese etc...I think the earliest twin engined Mig was the I-300 in 1945.
The suks and the AL-31s aren't designed to last pretty long either. The PLAAF have started to retire their early suks.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
People have often forgotten what they traditional definition of a MiG is.
"MiG = Single Seat, Single Engine, Single Use"
Cursed be any operators of MiGs that attempt to expand beyond this. =D
Fact is, aircraft like the MiG-29s and their RD-33s were not designed to last pretty long. Design was focused on rapid production rather than serviceability.
Doesn't really explain why the latest Su-30s have the same problem though. Only thing I can think of is the way their industries are tooled.
If the Su-30s have the same problems as the MIG-29s, that will leave a big gap in air defense that the RMAF will have to cover with only eight F-18 Hornets across East and West Malaysia.At the earlier Aerospace Asia airshow when the Su-30 made its debut in Singapore, it was a shock to see the surface skin of the entire Su-30 had resembled the surface of a golf ball - compared to the flat and smooth surface of the US F-15 and F-16 that were present.
One can only wonder if the Russians had taken a leaf out of the golf-ball technology to make the ball fly faster and further with the characteristic pock-marked surface !!!
The pocked-mark dented surface must have been acheived by the sheet metal going through some panel beating job to shape the various body sections that were finally rivetted together to form the plane.
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Even with the sqn of suks, there's still going to be a big gap in AD. The rmaf wishlist for 6 sqn is probably close to the requirement for adequate AD.
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wow...i wonder how much did they spend on acquiring the 18 Mig-29. why don't they just sell to the middle east countries...I am sure they could covered some book value?
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Sipri reported as US$600m deal with offsets of $220m and $150m in barter.
As to Mig-29, no value. Russia had to donate 10 to Lebanon. Only entities getting new migs are sudan, burma and north korea. All of which MY will be criticised for selling arms to.
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The Su-30 MKMs are much more capable aircraft than the MIG29s & are reputed to be the best non Western fighter in the world.
Provided that the ongoing issue of full integration of non Russian avionics are resolved , RMAF will have in its possession an extremely formidable multipurpose strike fighter.
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The problem is that they can't seem to get their act together for some reason... despite having kickass equipment? I guess their management needs to be more forward looking.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
The problem is that they can't seem to get their act together for some reason... despite having kickass equipment? I guess their management needs to be more forward looking.
Maybe somebody could list out the reasons? Hehe... Number 1....... *drum rolls*
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I think most malaysian procurement of arms, sadly, is not in the best interests of the soldier on the ground.
such as the case of alleged bribery for their scorpene subs.
kinda reflected in the maintainence of thier planes too.
even military forumners can find info online citing higher maintanence costs of the mig 29's. why wouldnt the procurement arm for thier military know this too?
only caring about the the initial purchase? not the long term maintainability of the aircraft?
perhaps politcally tinged too, to avoid over-reliance from the Americans.
Things a RMAF pilot wouldn't care about.
well at least they are phasing out the planes, hopefully for the pilots sake they have more far sighted purchases in the future.
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Would they not equally concern with the power projection from the Northern part of South China Sea? and the overlay claim ? overly dependent on Russia technology would put them equally closed with asia next giant?
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
Simultaneous equation time.....
India bought Mig-29 in 1986. Still flying in 2009. Soon to extend service life for 25-40 year.
Qn: What is the lifespan of Mig-29s?
Ans: 10 years. Why? Cos 10-year series compulsory for anyone taking PSLE lah....
10 years is the lifespan of the engines. Russian engines have shorter lifespan than their western counterparts -
Most don't even reach the first overhaul hours before requiring a massive overhaul. In any case, you can say its effective business strategy. You sell stuff cheap, but maintenance intensive requiring them to keep coming back for servicing. I suppose you can say the Russian Aviation Industry would be bigger on servicing than on sales!
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The success story of the previously known ‘Mikoyan-i-Gurevich Design Bureau’ (*1) -later to be known as the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG or RSK MiG - is that it is able to sell large fleets of the plane that it build to any nation with cash or commodities to pay.
Unfortunately, nothing was mentioned that almost half of the fleet sold will be needed to support and keep the other half operational and flying.
In 2006, the Russian Government has merged 100% of Mikoyan shares with Ilyushin, Irkut, Sukhoi, Tupolev, and Yakovlev as a new company named ‘United Aircraft Corporation’ (*2) - and with it being 100% owned by the Russian Government.
The United Aircraft Corporation is an effort by the Russian Government to consolidate the various Russian aircraft construction companies and state assets engaged in the manufacture, design and sale of military, civilian, transport, and unmanned aircraft.
The strengths of MiG and Sukhoi were specifically merged as one unit,
With the second largest Russian State Owned Bank having 5% of its shares in EADS - (acronym for European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company N.V.) - being transferred to United Aircraft Corporation; and with EADS owning 10% of Irkut shares that it plans to convert to UAC shares - there may see some deeper involvement of European aircraft manufacturers in the Russian aircraft industry.
This may result in some improvements in the aircraft design and maintenance issues of Russian built planes.
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Talking about Su-30MKM's maintenance issue, RMAF seems to seek other than Russian's help in doing the job:
RMAF Seeks China's Logistic Support For Sukhoi Fighters
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsindex.php?id=452966
By Vincent Low
BEIJING, Nov 6 (Bernama) -- Malaysia is strengthening its military air ties with China and has sought the assistance of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in maintenance and logistics support for Malaysia's fleet of Sukhoi SU-30 fighter jets.
Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) chief Jeneral Datuk Seri Rodzali Daud said Malaysia was also looking into acquiring some Chinese military ware.
"China had risen to become the superpower of the region and is advanced in its technology as well and our relationship with China is getting better and better," Jen Rodzali told Bernama Friday.
"They can help us in many areas, like for parts and maintenance of the SU-30. In fact, Malaysia is also looking into some of the Chinese military products."
The RMAF has 18 Russian made SU-30 fighter jets while China also has large numbers of Russian made fighter jets including the Sukhoi SU-30.
Jen Rodzali was among the air force chiefs from 34 countries invited for a two-day international forum starting today in conjunction with the PLA Air Force (PLAF) 60th anniversary.
He met his Chinese counterpart, General Xu Qiliang, at the PLAF headquarters on Thursday night.
Jen Rodzali said the RMAF would strengthen cooperation with the PLAF and in the past had participated in the exchange of personnel and regional security information.
At least six Malaysian military personnel were attached to China's Defence University and Staff College and China has agreed to send its first student to the Malaysia Defence College next year.
The RMAF delegation will attend a PLAF Air Show and Air Force equipment exhibition at Shahe Airfield near here on Saturday before visiting the PLAF Museum on Sunday.
The group will also visit Jining Airfield in eastern Shandong province on Monday to witness an exhibition of China-made fighter jets before returning to Kuala Lumpur.
-- BERNAMA -
I believe the RMAF has contracted with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd to overhaul their Su-30MKMs. There are also Su-30 MKM training agreements between RMAF and Indian Air Force