Originally posted by As romanista2001:their weapons sale not enough to cover their expenses.................i wonder who's the big shareholders of St Eng................just like the caterers for SAF..............you spend more money when you outsource all these so who owns these companies make money from the taxpayers............
recent years, S'pore buy so mauch new weapons especially the navy is becoz the we're told to do so by some foreigners..................to try to control the bottleneck of Malacca Straits to help rein in China.........
that's what you think. labor they use so cheap, all foreigners.
Originally posted by kcockicht:Ayah sg also making and selling weapons lah, if not you think so much money tospend meh. so worked up for what? spend on military good, esp in times like these.
The bulk of the money spent is mostly overseas - for the training of the SAF in the military arrangements made with Australia, Brunei, France, India, Indonesia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, and the USA.
In the question asked by 'As romanista2001' - "why we spend so much ?" - he is referring to the Defense Budget.
Was it about supporting the "arms industry" owned by the Singapore Government ?
One must remember the history of Singapore - how independence was forced on us in the midst of the turbulent politics that led to Singapore being thrown out of a rushed merger to be part of Malaysia.
Prior to Singapore being forced out of Malaysia - there was a plan to send two battalions of Royal Malay Regiment to force a coup de'tat that would have locked up the entire Singapore State Government, put Singapore under the direct control of the Malaysian Federal Government.
It was then UK PM Harold Wilson who prevented this from happening.
This led to a frantic introduction of legislations to implement National Service based on the same lines as Israel, as she was the only country that responded to our call for help when others have declined.
The amount spent on Defense has been gradually increased as the SAF mature in the step-by-step development - as seen in the purchase of second hand AMX-13 tanks that were first introduced, as well as the second hand Hawker Hunters fighter jets, the SkyHawks; then there were the old County Class LSTs, while new patrol boats were built locally.
The size of the Defense Budget today is to ensure the SAF is kept on a sharp edge with all the modern equipment and technologies purchased, and also to ensure that the fighting capabilities are integrated to ensure the SAF is confident of the 'force multiplier effects' when different components are put together for any missions.
The fact that the SAF need to train overseas is due to the limited land size that we inherited and live in.
The bigger terrain made available overseas will allow the SAF to test the basic skills of individual soldiers training in unfamiliar ground, and which also allow larger SAF formations to familiarize and get experience in strategic manoevres - as well as to test new equipment, technologies and systems that are introduced to the make the SAF a sharp fighting force.
Originally posted by Atobe:
The bulk of the money spent is mostly overseas - for the training of the SAF in the military arrangements made with Australia, Brunei, France, India, Indonesia, South Africa, Taiwan, Thailand, and the USA.In the question asked by 'As romanista2001' - "why we spend so much ?" - he is referring to the Defense Budget.
Was it about supporting the "arms industry" owned by the Singapore Government ?
One must remember the history of Singapore - how independence was forced on us in the midst of the turbulent politics that led to Singapore being thrown out of a rushed merger to be part of Malaysia.
Prior to Singapore being forced out of Malaysia - there was a plan to send two battalions of Royal Malay Regiment to force a coup de'tat that would have locked up the entire Singapore State Government, put Singapore under the direct control of the Malaysian Federal Government.
It was then UK PM Harold Wilson who prevented this from happening.
This led to a frantic introduction of legislations to implement National Service based on the same lines as Israel, as she was the only country that responded to our call for help when others have declined.
The amount spent on Defense has been gradually increased as the SAF mature in the step-by-step development - as seen in the purchase of second hand AMX-13 tanks that were first introduced, as well as the second hand Hawker Hunters fighter jets, the SkyHawks; then there were the old County Class LSTs, while new patrol boats were built locally.
The size of the Defense Budget today is to ensure the SAF is kept on a sharp edge with all the modern equipment and technologies purchased, and also to ensure that the fighting capabilities are integrated to ensure the SAF is confident of the 'force multiplier effects' when different components are put together for any missions.
The fact that the SAF need to train overseas is due to the limited land size that we inherited and live in.
The bigger terrain made available overseas will allow the SAF to test the basic skills of individual soldiers training in unfamiliar ground, and which also allow larger SAF formations to familiarize and get experience in strategic manoevres - as well as to test new equipment, technologies and systems that are introduced to the make the SAF a sharp fighting force.
As i wrote the money we spend on Rand D and manufacturing of some weapons should justify for a certain amount of money we can throw back and spend on our military trainings, hardware, people and whayever requires.
In times like these when the economy is on the recovery or uncertainties as some may address it spending on military is a sign that reinforce that we take serious concerns on any monkey businesses.
What you wrote why these are the usual expenses SAF incurr. Unless trainings has been cut down so say. I believe having a vision that a country (no matter how big or small) is good to have some sort of defend force or army so as to deter any forms of foreign invasion will be in the minds of any sane ruler so the thought of building an army to defend the island is logical.
after 20 yearsall the weapons would be obsolete and worth $0.probably end up all being sold by the kg like fish at fishmarket!
they neeed far out weapons to keep with the times.reliable and cheap yet way ahead of the americans and europeans.You need research and development to produce the best.From robot machinegunners that have machine vision ,robot snipers that kill an entire enemy platoon 100% ,supersubmarines built at keppel shipyard to house an entire helicopter squadron, flying robots with grenades thats able to fly like a plane as well and a bullet proof invisible force shield thats runned on a jet engine are amongst the few that can be made.
i sincerely hope spore isnt using $$$ just to pay the generals high salary only and giving just enough to the rest.......
Hitman, weapon is also based on technology. so i agree to what Atobe wrote. Yes its throwing money away if you view it in another angle but from engineering terms of a country's maintaiinance such expenses are inevvitable.
In engineering terms a machine runs and some parts of it wear. we can employ lubricant to slow down the wear and repalce parts in times of wear. when the inductry demands and the machine's technology failes, that's where we see if its affordable economical to upgrade or srap for some cash abck prior to getting new technology, new machines.
its not throwing money away IF U KNOW HOW TO BUILD IT.but it is throwing away money if u buy them.those described above are the easy and not really hard stuff for starters to design and make.....there are more mind boggling weapons that hasnt been made in reality.
from your description of technology in engineering lubrication......its more like commercial rather than defence!in defence all machines in a war are only expected to last 1 year at most!
if u are serious in a real war......dont buy yer weapons!only losers buy their weapons instead of building them cheaper and with better designs!!!
but spore isnt really into the war things with most of the generals prefering not to go into defence...rather they treat the general thing as a means to an end waiting for a civilian parliment job.
everything is technology based!even the potato we eat is technology based too!!!
Originally posted by Hitman~:its not throwing money away IF U KNOW HOW TO BUILD IT.but it is throwing away money if u buy them.those described above are the easy and not really hard stuff for starters to design and make.....there are more mind boggling weapons that hasnt been made in reality.
from your description of technology in engineering lubrication......its more like commercial rather than defence!in defence all machines in a war are only expected to last 1 year at most!
if u are serious in a real war......dont buy yer weapons!only losers buy their weapons instead of building them cheaper and with better designs!!!
but spore isnt really into the war things with most of the generals prefering not to go into defence...rather they treat the general thing as a means to an end waiting for a civilian parliment job.
SO our tops look stupid. I hope they are as interested aif not zealous in their pursue for military knowledge and learn from histories and past technology. I also hope that what that can be disclosed are pure stupidity because we may have a system already in place suited for our island's defence.
If you had even worked for the defecnce de[artment or any of their subsidiaries dealing with wepon, you will know that they buy newer weapon, understand their technolgy and rever engineer or modify its design in steps to suit our island's defend patterns.
Good, bad or 'could hav been better' move you call it one example is the SAR-21. Its based on the Aus' Styr assault rifle.
u need defence all the time.there are insane,jealous,desperate or greedy people who would like to take and ruin your life.be it the PAP or some country next to u. to spend billions on some generals salary or some expensive jet plane isnt worth da money.and not to spend much and in the right place also is a poor strategy.
dont need to see where it would go without technology in defence.and technology to be cheap is best u build it up yerself ......u can get the components and software and hardware cheap but the entire design must be from a smart person.only then will defence budget go somewhere and not on some spare parts!
however the defence budget could be a ruse ...a decoy.....maybe there wasnt much defence budget allocated to defence in the first place due to loses in temasek with MAS.
Hey!!if i was the MAS chairman and lost so much money....i would conveniently say all the money equivalent to my lost money in overseas investments would be spent on defence too!!very convenient.who so stupid to believe that kinda quack directive!
Originally posted by Hitman~:everything is technology based!even the potato we eat is technology based too!!!
SAF combat rations also underwent many changes.
Originally posted by Hitman~:u need defence all the time.there are insane,jealous,desperate or greedy people who would like to take and ruin your life.be it the PAP or some country next to u. to spend billions on some generals salary or some expensive jet plane isnt worth da money.and not to spend much and in the right place also is a poor strategy.
dont need to see where it would go without technology in defence.and technology to be cheap is best u build it up yerself ......u can get the components and software and hardware cheap but the entire design must be from a smart person.only then will defence budget go somewhere and not on some spare parts!
however the defence budget could be a ruse ...a decoy.....maybe there wasnt much defence budget allocated to defence in the first place due to loses in temasek with MAS.
Hey!!if i was the MAS chairman and lost so much money....i would conveniently say all the money equivalent to my lost money in overseas investments would be spent on defence too!!very convenient.who so stupid to believe that kinda quack directive!
That's another topic. I am not interested in discussing remuneration of senior officers. But i hope in times of war they will not fear death and fight alongside all the men. Most soldiers who fought in WW2 or any other wars gets paid.
i doubt theres much money allocated in defence budget....ya be lucky got enough food even!!as from what ive seen these past decaade......food seems to be getting uglier n lousier!
they are just saying they have plenty money for defence because to deter psychologically enemy from invading spore
fear death and fight alongside with their men???
forget that wishful thinking!!!back in world war 2 when the Yamato battleship went on its last suicide mission......the general in charge stayed on some safe far away island then be on ship with his men!
chinese sporeans arent japanese.think sporeans they would either surrender or escape from enemy or strike some deal with the enemy or werk with them pretending nothing has happened!
u can already see in peace time where most of these generals are and how they function in parliament.so in war time....its the same thing too!
Only countries without the technological knowhow or have a careless approach to maintaining effective systems see their weapons deteriorate quickly and have to replace them in 20 years or in many cases much sooner. As can be seen, good weapons systems can be continuously upgraded to be effective. As I have mentioned before, the SAF has many good examples of weapons still remaining relevant & effective after more than 20 years of service such as the F5s, Oerlikon 35mm, AMX13, M113, V200 etc. The USA still uses 60 year old B52s and many European countries still operate upgraded LeoA4s which were originally built 30 years ago.
Buying spare parts is key to maintaining an effective system - any system, not only weapons systems. Again one does not need to look far to see that shiny new equipment without spares or maintenance quickly become scrap metal.
There is no such thing as building so called "easy" weapons. Building a so called simple, for example , machinegun , rifle etc to work reliably , be effective at reasonably cost is probably one of the hardest things to do. One of the most effective heavy machine guns today the Browing 50 cal was designed almost 100 years ago - now that is a techno marvel. Even copying can be difficult - look at the M60 machinegun.
Generals usually earned their stars very much earlier when they were fighting alongside their men in the frontlines of battle as junior officers & performed very well. Thats why they usually have grey hair. They shud not be spending too much time on the front lines but they shud be more critically developing strategies / plans and executing them to ensure victory at minimum loss of own forces. Losing a general in the trenches to a sniper bullet may well mean victory for the enemy in the battlefield.
generals who order their men to their deaths and dont win in that battle and war dont deserve to be generals.should be in my kitchen cooking and doing the laundry.
why paid so much for officers
when they just sit in aircon office
and only do planning once a while
half way go play golf, and sign docu
once a while
when Man chiong mountain hill , sweat
like siao but only get miserable salary?
I Saw some US navy marines in train a few days ago
OMG they are damm big size and huge muscle
Just look at those OCS ppl how to fight wiht them
?
Remember the skinny 5 ' 4 " Vietcong with AK47s, pith helmets, black sandals ( made from old tyres ) carrying a bicycle inner tube of rice slung around the shoulder ?? They not only scared the hell out of the US troops, but beat them too.
The typical Japanese infantryman of WW2 had probably the same physique as the Vietcong. They too were much more than a match for the US Marines.
Iraqi and Afghan insurgents have no more than basic hand held weapons to battle the US Army and Marines. The insurgents have yet to be beaten.
Surely you cannot be awed by a muscle bound enemy. He is just a bigger target. A 6 ' 200 lb gorilla is as easily killed by a 5.56 mm round as a 5' 4" 120 lb Asian. What more if the Asian Army has a 1st rate air force, modern artillery / armor / command & control systems etc. The outcome clearly cannot be certain for the gorilla.
Its all in the mind & I see that you do not have the winning spirit.