Japan commissions Hyuga Class Helicopter Destroyer
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Originally posted by PedoBear:
we got subs, just sink those flat-tops and no one will be the wiserWith our unique bi-lingual skills written on the military hardwares used in your plan, we could probably incriminate China with your act of war - and get away with murder too.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Let just assume logically that China doesn't need aircraft carriers to defend its sovereign airspace over mainland China. Hence, their carriers are gonna go out to sea to do their business elsewhere.
A few places spring into mind. Taiwan is one of them, but it seems like China's policies towards Taiwan is softening as well. Another place of a little more concern would be the Spratly islands. All of the parties claiming the islands are unlikely to be able to project airpower over the islands without some form of naval aviation. Without US carriers nearby, a Chinese carrier task force would dominate the area.
This does bring into mind the Vietnamese acquisition of submarines doesn't it?
Similarly, even if the Japanese Hyuuga was to come with a full compliment of F-35s, it would definitely not go knocking on the door of a state with a modern and competent air force. That is probably not going to be Singapore.
Again, if we assume that carriers aren't required to defend homeland airspace, those carriers would probably head over to either disputed areas, or states that do not have a modern and competent air force. In that, it would be the Senkaku Islands, or North Korea. As far as I can see, it doesn't seem like the Japanese would have any interest in South East Asia and there is little they can do with just a few VSTOL carriers without a power navy and sufficient troop strength.
Yes, it was mentioned in my response which you had quoted that:"China's quest for an aircraft carrier is not to threaten Japan specifically, but as a tool to counter what they see as the unchallenged threat by the US carrier fleet that sail unopposed into the Chinese exclusive territorial economic zones that is recognised by all nations to be 200 nautical miles from the coast."
The Chinese exclusive economic zone that is recognised under the UN Law of the Sea conventions will include the Yellow Sea, and the South-China Sea.
Both these areas are hotly disputed between China and her neighbors for the oil and gas reserves under the sea bed, as well as the minerals waiting to be mined.
Vietnam's submarines will pose little threat to China's massive fleet of diesel-electric and nuclear submarines; and even as Vietnam is prepared to slug it out with China - it will do her no good to conduct any aggressive militancy towards China.
As matters stand, China is projecting a good neighborly image by signing bilateral agreements with the various countries willing to do so - to jointly explore and benefit from the extraction of minerals, oil and gas.
China's aircraft carrier will serve no purpose except to project her image of entering the Upper Class of Powerful nations on the World Stage.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Unfortunately, you will be under estimating those radical believers with your own cynical belief that such radical position taken is due largely to their puny brains.Do you seriously believe that the present controversial Iranian elected President Ahmadinejad's brain is puny - as he did deny that the holocaust had happened ?
Such characters exist in a continuing agenda that remains intact despite defeats suffered, and they are bidding their time to re-emerge again.
It was the "puny brains" of Adolf Hitler that struck the spark that ignited WW-2 across Europe into Russia, across the English Channel to UK, and across the Atlantic to bring the war to US shores.
The neo-Nazis are quietly waiting for the opportune moment to rehash the Third Reich, while the surviving Japanese militarists from WW-2 remains at the center of Japanese industry and politics.
With the Right Wing Neo-Cons sidelined after 8 years of their political guardianship that resulted in a weakened USA, this may well provide the incentive for the Axis powers to raise their public profile to a higher level.
It is precisely because of the tolerance and meek response of the rest of the world that people like Ahmedinejad and 100 LDP lawmakers can get away with things like holocaust or massacre denials.I have no qualms to denounce idiots like Ecclestone who hold people like Hitler with high regard and have no qualms with thinking holocaust or massacre denial idiots as people with puny brains. They don't deserve any praise nor should we be apologists. Ahmedinejad is an idiot, no doubt about that.
I segregate idiocy from danger. Idiots can be dangerous and in that regard, we don't under-estimate the ability of idiots to assume the highest positions in their land nor their ability to sow chaos in this world.
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WW-2 was caused by wimps like Neville Chamberlain who refused to accept the reality in the threats that Adolf Hitler posed during that period.
The world community had reacted towards the shrillness in Ahmadinejad's denial of the hoocaust that is tantamount to an outright denial of the events of WW-2 that had affected human history throughtout the globe.
Similarly, the World had also reacted to the foolish actions of Kim Jong-il in the rabid provocative actions of testing a nuclear device and repeatedly firing test missiles into the seas around the Korean Peninsular - even as the threat of famine is looming.
Amidst these larger threats of clear militant actions of the "puny minds" on the global stage, there remains the unseen threats from those more cunning and preferring to take the less dramatic route to gain or regain political power to achieve their goals.
The continued resistance by the Japanese Government to make a full apology to her Asian neighbors, and in frequent attempts to change historical facts of Japan's role in WW-2 - even in their text books used in schools - continue to be a cause for concern throughout Asia.
Unfortunately, the limited objections of various Asian Governments - who place economic co-operation over politics - will embolden the Japanese Right Wing militants, who continue to lurk behind the scene as "King Maker" in the Japanese domestic politics.
The construction of an "experimental flat top" called a "helicopter destroyer" - would have been acceptable under most circumstances except for the surreptious nature that the Japanese Government had preferred to adopt instead of being more forthright.
Considering that the Japanese Constitution had placed clear limitation against the construction of such military armaments that offer its military an aggressive ability, and the manner in which the Constitution was circumvented is cause enough for concerns of all Asia.
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I don't see PLN will ever be as influence as the Navies from the Americas in the pacific ocean, because PRC has only 1 ocean to do with Trades which they need. But the same ocean is shared by PacRim nations. There are limited threats you can imposed within PacRim nations while the americas can fight in the Pacific and trade in the Atlantics.
I don't think china can raise its threats level at the expense of Trades. unless it is run by some ego PLA who control the Civil Govt.
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China has unsinkable trade routes via SCO countries, India and Indochina. US only has unsinkable trade routes with Canada and Mexico.
More importantly, US is more affected by trade interdiction than China with the exception of oil. That's why USCC reviews the fuel supply situation constantly and why China is considering protecting its SLOCs with CVs and building 3,000 km oil pipeline through Kazakhstan and reviewing other lines through Russia, India, Pakistan, Myanmar, etc.
Sinking VLCCs today has a far greater impact than oil tankers in WW2. China has only 1 ocean to operate in but USN resources will need to deploy in a far larger number of oceans to defend against interdiction.
Thankfully, unlike the former Soviet navy, China's focus on nuke subs has received far less emphasis. Difficult to say going forward.
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What is trade? Trade is bilateral, I don’t understand why people must put two most important trade partners in the planet on the opposite side of each other?
Aircraft carrier for China, yes, as most people said, its role is to have projection power far from home. China already is one of the top trade countries in the world surpassing Japan. So, its military power has to be able to couple with its own trade extension. If the PLAN’s CVGs are deemed to provide protection of China’s trade interests and SLOC, as explained previously, trade is bilateral. Countries like US Japan which got the lion’s share trade volume with China, why against it? Its own trade being protected. So, the CVGS protecting the trade therefore also got some kind of bilateral meaning.
I don’t think unsinkable or sinkable trade route means a lot. Especially in today’s integrated supply chain and trade.
Some more info about China's trade with the rest of the world:
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Well, China holds more than US$1 trillion of US debt. If US were to dishonour the debt, then basically, that's a US$1 trillion funding for a war against China.
This means China will probably dump its holdings prior to a war or suffer the cost.
Trade is an impt factor in an embargo scenario. Whilst external trade may appear to affect China greatly, it is the import of vital necessities that will determine its ability to sustain a long term campaign.
Access to countries like Pakistan will enable back-handed import of vital commodities.
It is commonly assumed that a war with US won't last very long but history has shown that US has been most vulnerable when wars are long eg Korea, Vietnam, Iraq so China may pursue a long war strategy.US vulnerability to oil shocks is a factor.
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
China has unsinkable trade routes via SCO countries, India and Indochina. US only has unsinkable trade routes with Canada and Mexico.
More importantly, US is more affected by trade interdiction than China with the exception of oil. That's why USCC reviews the fuel supply situation constantly and why China is considering protecting its SLOCs with CVs and building 3,000 km oil pipeline through Kazakhstan and reviewing other lines through Russia, India, Pakistan, Myanmar, etc.
Sinking VLCCs today has a far greater impact than oil tankers in WW2. China has only 1 ocean to operate in but USN resources will need to deploy in a far larger number of oceans to defend against interdiction.
Thankfully, unlike the former Soviet navy, China's focus on nuke subs has received far less emphasis. Difficult to say going forward.
Trade route thru other 3rd and 4th nations come with hinden obstacle an example is Ukarine Gas pipeline it was shut down by Russia.
Therefore, ocean trade is still most direct trade route govt by international Law. The US has long historical ties with Western Europe that trade route would not be blocked. PLN does not have the capabilities to project its power beyond pacific.
Historically PRC viewed Myanmar as its back door but India and other nations in the regions shared similar trade interest and china needs to work with them in order to access.
So PRC has a host of nations that it needs to work with. Not to mention that most nations has trade ties across Americas. So PLN has constraint in its influence.
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That's why there is more than 1 pipeline in the works and China's pipelines don't go through more than 1 country.
PLN does not have the capabilities to project its power beyond pacific now. That's why containment with a line drawn from Japan to Taiwan and then to SE Asia is important and why SE Asia + Australia are beefing up sub/ASW capability.
But a future strategy cannot be ruled out. Ports in Pakistan, Myanmar not to mention growing "friends" in Africa, South America provide ideal staging points that bypass the chokepoints.
With sufficient CVs, that might tempt SE Asia to stay neutral breaking the containment strategy.
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A destroyer at 18000 tons is not a big cause for concern, more so since it carries helicopters. Its armanments will not be enough to counter surface attacks.
Instead, they are better against submarines.
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The japs are up to something again. If they have money, y never build more missiles gunboats, submarine or frigate??? They purposely spend on a helicopter carrier. They never learn their lessons. Wait till some more atomic bombs rain onto them.
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Originally posted by Singmarine:
The japs are up to something again. If they have money, y never build more missiles gunboats, submarine or frigate??? They purposely spend on a helicopter carrier.
They never learn their lessons. Wait till some more atomic bombs rain onto them.
i am not even going to ask what news paper you read.....