Bionix light tank

• Joe Black

  27 Feb 03, 10:55

  Originally posted by bigballs11:

  There have been news in the arms transfer market for some time regarding the unaccountable 100 pieces of Merkava 3. It is known that Israel desparately want sell it's current stock of 2nd hand Mk3 to make way for newer Mk4. Any buyers

  Definitely not inconceivable for SAF to acquire Merkava Mk3. Look, if SAF acquired the Centurions (a 50 tonner) why not the Merks? Furthermore, Mk3 Baz is one of the most advanced tank in the world. They rank 4th after Leopard 1A6, M1A2, Challenger 2. I would presume Mk4 would now rank 3rd due to their many improvements.
• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  27 Feb 03, 13:44

  A 120mm Light Recoil weapon is probably going to be what we're using, while 105mm rounds can probably penetrate malaysian frontal armour, as the Israelis have proven in their encounters against T-62/4 and T-72 tanks, the 120 mm gives you a larger margin in penetrating armor over distances and all stike angles and longer range. What is a lucky hit with at range with a 105mm APFSDS round in which the penetrator glances off or breaks, will be a penetration with the 120mm, why do you think the Israelis upgraded to 120mm, with some concepts of 140mm even?
  
  Of course, malaysin T-80 frontal armor might even be proof to 105mm...
• |-|05|

  27 Feb 03, 15:03

  Originally posted by Joe Black:

  Which ATGM? Spike? Milan 2? It will be most interesting if Spike cannot penetrate Merkava 3. BTW, which version of Merkava 3 did SAF choose? Mk 3 Baz or the Vanilla version? Why not Mk4 instead?
  
  

  he said he uses the local produced ATGM dunno what the name.....it's a copy of an isreali weapon or something liddat
• |-|05|

  27 Feb 03, 15:05

  Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:

  A 120mm Light Recoil weapon is probably going to be what we're using, while 105mm rounds can probably penetrate malaysian frontal armour, as the Israelis have proven in their encounters against T-62/4 and T-72 tanks, the 120 mm gives you a larger margin in penetrating armor over distances and all stike angles and longer range. What is a lucky hit with at range with a 105mm APFSDS round in which the penetrator glances off or breaks, will be a penetration with the 120mm, why do you think the Israelis upgraded to 120mm, with some concepts of 140mm even?
  
  Of course, malaysin T-80 frontal armor might even be proof to 105mm...

  all this talk about size of gun......nothing about length of gun??
• Typhoon

  27 Feb 03, 15:56

  Israeli designed Singapore built ATGM? I think its the NTS Spike.
  
  I think its oready confirmed that it is 120mm... but only time will tell.
  
• Joe Black

  27 Feb 03, 17:03

  Originally posted by |-|05|:

  he said he uses the local produced ATGM dunno what the name.....it's a copy of an isreali weapon or something liddat

  Then, it must be the Israeli Rafael Spike.
  
  
  
  
  References:
  http://www.geocities.com/ptone50/SPIKE.htm
  http://www.defense-update.com/directory/spike.htm
• laser51088

  27 Feb 03, 17:47

  Originally posted by Joe Black:

  Definitely not inconceivable for SAF to acquire Merkava Mk3. Look, if SAF acquired the Centurions (a 50 tonner) why not the Merks? Furthermore, Mk3 Baz is one of the most advanced tank in the world. They rank 4th after Leopard 1A6, M1A2, Challenger 2. I would presume Mk4 would now rank 3rd due to their many improvements.

  How was this ranking concieved? Were Russian tanks taken into account? And how does the Leclerc measure up? You mean the Leopard 2A6?
• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  27 Feb 03, 19:32

  Originally posted by |-|05|:

  all this talk about size of gun......nothing about length of gun??

  All things equal a 120mm gun will always be harder hitting then a 105.
• Tweeker

  27 Feb 03, 21:35

  Is this info available on the net?
  
  They don't have enough merkavas in service, how come they are disposing their MK3? Their MK 3 BAZ are probably the best MBT Israel has now until they have enough Mk 4s to put into division levels (That would be at least 2 years or more)...
  
  Wouldn't it be more logical for them to upgrade all early MK 3 to BAZ standard than to dispose them off to another country.
  
  
  
  

  Originally posted by bigballs11:

  There have been news in the arms transfer market for some time regarding the unaccountable 100 pieces of Merkava 3. It is known that Israel desparately want sell it's current stock of 2nd hand Mk3 to make way for newer Mk4. Any buyers

• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  27 Feb 03, 21:37

  Unless of course, another country has been in cooperation with them...
• Joe Black

  27 Feb 03, 23:51

  Originally posted by Tweeker:

  Is this info available on the net?
  
  

  Sorry guys, my info is a little wrong, the ranking should be
  
  1. German Leopard 2A6
  2. American Abrams M1A2
  3. Japanese Type 90 (Surprise!!!)
  4. French Leclerc
  5. British Challenger 2 (some report rank them equal 4th)
  6. Israeli Merkava 3 Baz
  
  Reference:
  http://www.forecast1.com/press/press1.htm
  
  This press release does not contain the whole list. I have read a very similar somewhere else.
  
  The Russian T-90 is good, but not good enough to rank the top 5.
• Joe Black

  28 Feb 03, 00:04

  Oh, btw, there is a discussion forum about the World's Best tank. Thought some of you might be interested to see others' view:
  
  http://pub137.ezboard.com/ffighterplanesfrm7.showMessageRange?topicID=112.topic&start=1&stop=20
• Joe Black

  28 Feb 03, 00:09

  Forcast yet again did a ranking last year and the ranking became:
  
  1. German 2A6
  2. US Abram M1A2
  3. Japanese Type 90
  4. Israeli Merkava 4
  
  Reference:
  Forecast International Again Ranks Leopard 2 WorldÂ’s Best Tank Overall
  
  This is the article I saw recently, and thus my previous post saying that Merkava ranked 4th.
  
  5th on the list is Lelerc followed by British Challenger 2.