Can Bionix suit UK push for new tracked vehicles in Afgh
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Can Bionix Infantry Fighting Vehicle fullfil the requirements of
''UK commanders push for new tracked vehicles in Afghanistan theatre''?
UK armoured reconnaissance commanders in Afghanistan remain convinced that specialist tracked reconnaissance vehicles are needed to monitor Taliban insurgent activity and are sceptical that the new DML Jackal vehicle will be able to replace their primary scout platform. In an after-action report seen by Jane's , UK Royal Armoured Corps officers from the Household Cavalry Regiment, who served in Afghanistan during 2008, also did not seem to think that a GBP19 million (USD28 million) programme to modernise 100 Alvis Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) CVR(T) tracked platforms for service in Afghanistan will resolve the serviceability problems that have bedevilled the fleet
[first posted to http://jdw.janes.com - 16 January 2009] --EOQ!ref
http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/armoured-vehicles/jackal.asp
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/FirstBatchOfsoupedupCombatVehiclesDelivered.htm
above--
One of the new enhanced combat vehicles
[Picture: MOD]First batch of 'souped-up' combat vehicles delivered
An Equipment and Logistics news article
9 Jan 09
The first delivery of over 100 enhanced light tanks used for scouting out the enemy have arrived at the Army's training units, complete with a state-of-the-art engine cooling system taken from the motorsport industry.
Under an Urgent Operational Requirement (UOR) contract worth £19million, a number of important upgrades have been carried out to boost the performance and reliability of the British Army's Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) [CVR(T)] vehicles in the demanding conditions of Afghanistan.
Significant changes include:
• Up-powered engine, gearbox and final drives to improve performance in the demanding operational and environmental conditions faced in Afghanistan;
• A new high-efficiency radiator and charge air cooler from the motorsport world - a major improvement on earlier systems.
Lieutenant Colonel Martin Fenn, Environmental Mitigation UOR Team Leader, said:
"Delivery of these vehicles by BAE Systems and its suppliers is an excellent example of what can be achieved through effective partnering.
"More importantly, this package of enhancements to CVR(T)'s capability is urgently required and eagerly awaited by troops in Afghanistan."
Jim Graham of BAE Systems, prime contractor for the project, added:
"Our trials have proven major performance and reliability improvements. We received a post-design service contract in December last year and have effectively condensed a three-year development programme into one year, partly by beginning work in advance of contract, taking business risks with the MOD and consulting the key stakeholder."
The Light Dragoons, based in Swanton Morley in Norfolk, will be the first unit to begin training on the new vehicles in early 2009--EOQ
http://www.stengg.com/upload/994DoCn4Q91NXLbX86E.pdf
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Jackal Armoured Vehicle
http://www.armedforces-int.com/projects/armoured-vehicles/jackal.asp
Jackal is a weapon-mounted patrol vehicle that was purchased by UK under the Urgent Operational Requirement concerning the troops that were fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. When compared to other similar and efficient vehicles, the Jackal offers a greater firepower.
The Jackal features top speeds of 130 kph while on the road or 80 kph while off the road and carrying a crew of 3 men. The armored vehicle can be provided with and extra armor kit in order to increase its security and safety level. Its weapon options are likely to include the 50 (12.7mm) machine gun, the automatic grenade launcher and the general purpose guns...
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another level of lion stupidity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Rapid_Effect_System
ever heard of FRES ?
sorry but contest was sealed, shut and won long ago. ST bionix got no chance. say what you like lionnoisy. but the chance of bionix serving in Brit army is about as slim as you getting aussie PR.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
another level of lion stupidity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Rapid_Effect_System
ever heard of FRES ?
sorry but contest was sealed, shut and won long ago. ST bionix got no chance. say what you like lionnoisy. but the chance of bionix serving in Brit army is about as slim as you getting aussie PR.
wat u mention is a old project.
wat i quote is the recent news!!
UK armoured reconnaissance commanders in Afghanistan remain convinced that specialist tracked reconnaissance vehicles are needed to monitor Taliban insurgent activity and are sceptical that the new DML Jackal vehicle will be able to replace their primary scout platform. In an after-action report seen by Jane's , UK Royal Armoured Corps officers from the Household Cavalry Regiment, who served in Afghanistan during 2008, also did not seem to think that a GBP19 million (USD28 million) programme to modernise 100 Alvis Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) CVR(T) tracked platforms for service in Afghanistan will resolve the serviceability problems that have bedevilled the fleet
[first posted to http://jdw.janes.com - 16 January 2009]@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
same problem---inadquate protections!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackal_(vehicle)
the Jackal has been susceptible to a number of fatal attacks on British troops since its deployment. It was revealed on 16 October 2008 that the 121st British soldier to be killed in Afghanistan since 2001, Household Cavalry Trooper James Munday, was driving a Jackal when it was destroyed by an improvised explosive device.[10]
On 12 November 2008, Royal Marines Robert McKibben and Neil Dunstan were killed when their Jackal was hit by a roadside bomb in Garmsir, southern Helmand.[5] One month later, Lance Corporal Steven Fellows, a Royal Marine from 45 Commando, was killed in an explosion in the Sangin area of Helmand while on routine patrol in a Jackal.[5]
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Originally posted by sgstars:
another level of lion stupidity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Rapid_Effect_System
ever heard of FRES ?
sorry but contest was sealed, shut and won long ago. ST bionix got no chance. say what you like lionnoisy. but the chance of bionix serving in Brit army is about as slim as you getting aussie PR.
some info here--
pl note wat Janes referring to is not FRES!!
http://www.defense-update.com/events/2007/summary/dsei07_afv_misc.htm
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Inadquate protections has been a hot and sad topics in UK--
UK SAS Commander Quits, Citing Inadequate Equipment
- He responds in a statement to the House of Commons:
“The House will be aware of widespread public concern over the thirty-seven deaths of British servicemen and women in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of injuries sustained while using Snatch Land Rovers. I have recently been asked to institute a public inquiry into the use of these vehicles. After very careful consideration, I have decided that a public inquiry would not be the right way to proceed….]
Snatch Vixen,
Afghanistan -
Army fury as chief in Afghanistan is told he won't get vital ...
-By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE, Mail on Sunday
Last updated at 21:27 18 November 2006
Growing row between Brigadier John Lorimer and the government
The senior Army officer who will command British troops in Afghanistan next year is embroiled in a furious row with the Ministry of Defence after learning he will be denied vital armour to protect his men.
• Fury at American contempt for British war dead
• Dramatic video of British soldiers on the front line shot by the troops themselves.WARNING: The footage shot by British soldiers in Afghanistan is graphic and the soundtrack includes strong language that is unsuitable for minors
Brigadier John Lorimer, who will take charge of more than 5,000 troops in the spring, issued a 'shopping list' of requirements after a week-long recce in volatile Helmand province, the stronghold of Taliban fighters.
The tough and experienced Parachute Regiment officer asked for up to 12 Challenger 2 tanks, 14 Warrior armoured vehicles and four AS90 artillery guns - plus an extra 600-strong battalion of troops.
But he has been told by senior MoD officials that his requests will be denied...EOQ
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hehe, but do you know what is FRES and what is a Interim operational requirement ?
why go for a tracked vehicle when UK has embarked on a wheeled rapid mobility force structure ?
how much of these assets are meant for afghan theatre use and how much of these MRAP style vehicles are meant to be for long term use ?
either way, bionix wasnt even in the equation to begin with. your rah rah rah nonsense wont get you anyway.
this is BaE systems home turf. it wont allow STeng to simply barge in like this to begin with anyway,
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Note FRES is considered a **** up project. They have decided to customize an off the shelf. Check mp or DID websites.
Originally they have grand ideas like electric drive and modular design.
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Originally posted by touchstone_2000:
Note FRES is considered a **** up project. They have decided to customize an off the shelf. Check mp or DID websites.
Originally they have grand ideas like electric drive and modular design.
yeap.
but point being is that the firm future direction is there. IIRC, no one in nato is looking at a future heavy armoured force. COTS yes, tracked armoured vehicle, very unlikely.
besides, they have to produce something out of FRES to justify the money budgeted and spent on it. and money is tight with campaigns in afghanistan and the new queen elizabeth class carriers in the pipeline.
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Carriers delayed.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147664&highlight=fres
FRES award is listed here.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3231175&postcount=34
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133848&highlight=fres
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Originally posted by sgstars:
hehe, but do you know what is FRES and what is a Interim operational requirement ?
why go for a tracked vehicle when UK has embarked on a wheeled rapid mobility force structure ?
how much of these assets are meant for afghan theatre use and how much of these MRAP style vehicles are meant to be for long term use ?
either way, bionix wasnt even in the equation to begin with. your rah rah rah nonsense wont get you anyway.
this is BaE systems home turf. it wont allow STeng to simply barge in like this to begin with anyway,
this is BaE systems home turf. it wont allow STeng to simply barge in like this to begin with anyway
agreed... TS should read more reference.
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I thought ST Eng has already got its foot in the UK door with Bronco.....also a handhold with the 40 mm HV grenades .........etc etc ??
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
I thought ST Eng has already got its foot in the UK door with Bronco.....also a handhold with the 40 mm HV grenades .........etc etc ??
dont quite agree.
in the sense, yes, its signficant as its the first time Britain has bought a weapons platform for us (instead of the other way round)
but relative significance, in terms of overall sales and plans/position in british army procurement programs, current and future? a tiny drop in the ocean perhaps ?
bottomline :selling to the royal marines is something. getting and fighting for the chance to be chosen as the key mainstay component of FRES, the rapid wheeled vehicle, is non-existent given the fact that the bionix dosent meet the requirements, nor was it shortlisted/ considered.
if the situation were somewhat different, say if the UK was looking for a tracked 1-1 replacement for its warrior IFVs and the light tanks of the household calvary, maybe the bionix would stand a chance. but with FRES, its clear that the UK is moving away from that direction, and more towards a wheeled IFV/striker CBT/c130-airlift capable concept.
kinda like CNY, everybody buy orange to give to each other then someone goes and buy a grapefruit and tries to substitute it for a prange. totally out of future plans context. USMC and britain both buy MRAPs for service in Iraq and afghanistan, are MRAPS going to become the standard mounted vehicle for future combat situations ? unlikely. its there to meet a specific need.
40mm grenades, STK happen to be the world's largest manufacturer of it. maybe more of a case of pragmatic economics ? go for the lowest cost bidder ? the queen E class carriers are expensive. so are the typhoons and the operational costs of the afghan units.
