M777 vs. Pegasus
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Aiyo... how fast you want the Pegasus to scoot? The APU isn't exactly that powerful lar... Arty footprints are huge these days... not possible to scoot out of range on that.
Shoot n scoot with an APU... thats really a new one!
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i dun think randomly moving for several hundred metres is a SOP. tt's just crazy...they should have a proper form up point somewhere else (hopefully) away from counter arty fire...anyway the speed the pegasus will be travelling is 12km/h over rough terrain, you will want to be escaping at a faster speed...
btw from http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20051102.aspx we can see that the 'APU that not only gives it a short-range self-deploy capability, with a maximum speed of 12kmh (8mph) but also powers the Pegasus's ammunition loading system to reduce the manual workload of the Pegasus' crew.'
my guess is that the APU is useful when the Pegasus is unslung in enemy territory, and needs to get into firing position ASAP without assistance from other ground vehicles. my gut feel is that using the APU as a means to escape (as opposed to redeploying after firing) is just a tad too desperate. anyone from arty would like to help clarify? :D
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Originally posted by sgstars:
sigh lionnoisy.
are you being stupid or are you just being yourself ? same thing ainnit ?
dont want to compare FH-88 and M198. simply put : NOT INTERESTED :)
you mentioned local protection blanket as the solution and shoot and scoot. what happens when i rebutt both ? please lah, dont make me laugh. u dont even understand protection blanket and u wanna trumpet shoot and scoot ?
must i prove it in hard pictures that you can understand ?
ok. here's a simple demonstration of why shoot and scoot dosent work especially when you are facing an enemy that has MLRS capabilities.
for starters, do read up
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/docops/fm100-12d/chap2.htm
ok .. so death by mines, death by chemicals or death by saturation fire ?
tell me ? how lionnoisy how ?
and dont run away.. i m still waiting for these answers ?
please dont call yourself my brother, you are a noisy stupid lion. how can i be related to you ? i m human, male and not a bigot, definitely not stupid and definitely not noisy.
how to even associate if there is no basis for commonality ?
dont slander the brotherhood of humanity with your association.
wtf is a double clutch landrover ?
wtf is a queene ?
wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?
wtf are you ?
how come cannot differentiate between protection blanket ? and perimeter security ? dont know difference between local protection and battlefield scale protection ?
cool down saying 4 letters can help.
u know due to my limited English and military knowledge,i cant answer
your difficult questions lah.But common sense and practical more
important than language.Human being advance with automation
or assisted by machines.
M 777,a 21 st century weapon for Future Combat Sys,is powerless!!
It is just operated in a very family way of its forerunner in WW2.
I must admit that M 777 is more light in weight.
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Escape from firing position,not escape from range of counter fire
i need to make it more clear.
Back to your MLRS question.I remember it started with my comparsions
that M 777 is a sitting duck before tonner arrive to tow it away.
This statement still stands.Pegasus,like FH 2000 and FH 88,
can SP for a short range to move from firing position.
Did i say it can move from range of counter fire?I did not.
In war,if u can shoot your enemy,they also can shoot u.
u are lucky if your enemy dunt equip with adequate detection and counter fire.
SP is just to move from your firing position to escape from counter fire.
It is not for moving out of range of counter fire.
How can enemy detect your firing position?
Sensors----artillery radar,their forward observer,UAV,satellite etc.
Unless u have good evidences that there is no counter fire,
u have to move from your firing position after u fire.
If your CO can give u this assurance,that will be great.
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before your tonner arrive,a sniper will give u a lot of troubles.
This wil be over done by MTRS!!
SP can help to hide or move to a better position to save your live!!
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Just like Shoot and scoot shown in your images,
this cant gurantee your life.But it do help to make u stay alive much longer
than u fire a sitting duck.
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u can compare the development of artillery in both countries.
I dare say FH 88 provide more automation but demand less man power.Pl read spec.
SG is not a light year behind Yankees in artillery!!
Year.........USA..................................Singapore..........
1942........M 114(previously known M 1)...
1982.......M 198(powerless)
1988................................FH 88 (39 calibre)flick rammer w /independent power pack
1995................................FH 2000 (52 calibre)ditto n more
2003.................................Primus armoued SPH(comparable to NLOS--Cannon)
2005...M 777(powerless)....Pegasus LWH(powered w flick rammer n more)
2008...NLOS--Cannon (under development)...........What the hell ST is doing?
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m114_howitzer.php
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m198.htm
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-FH-88-gun-howitzer-Singapore.html
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=7
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m198.htm
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OOps my bad. I meant to say, scoot out of the footprint, not out of range.
Besides, even if you escape the first footprint, you won't escape the second. So that APU isn't gonna do much good either.
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shotgun, he just dosent get it. he probably wont.
ok lionnoisy , since you prove yourself to be capable of reading english, nor understanding it.
here's it in pictures
see lionnoisy ? this is with just a simulation which has really been dumbed down for you with an opposing battery of 18 Astros
shoot and scoot does not apply to howitzers, towed or otherwise. it usually applies to SPH like the primus and the Paladin
and those assumptions made here in this table top exercise are extremely simplified and extremely favorable to the pegasus. not taking into account crew fatigue, command and communications, muddy ground etc etc.
please desist from embarassing yourself further if you know next to nuts about artillery
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shoot and scoot really applies when if its the same situation with a couple of SPH or MLRS tracked system.
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SPH (eg Primus) shoots n scoots a lil differently, but they sure do scoot pretty quickly.
In any case, Pegasus and other towed artillery are hard to use in arty duels cos they can't really siam in time. Counter battery fire is usually tube artillery cos they react faster too. MLRS counter battery, not very common unless they've been dedicated to that task, waiting just for the counter-shot with area saturation munitions.
I'm not saying that the Pegasus is lousy compared to the M777. I think its in many aspects a better gun. However, what they USMC chooses to use is their business, and if they are interested in the Pegasus, then so be it.
Honestly, what I find annoying is when Lionnoisy's threads degenerate into a "Singapore self-stroking its own balls", comparing with other systems and claiming how superior it is to foreign systems. The Indian, Chinese and Malaysian military forums do that, I don't care. I just find it sick when we emulate them.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
SPH (eg Primus) shoots n scoots a lil differently, but they sure do scoot pretty quickly.
In any case, Pegasus and other towed artillery are hard to use in arty duels cos they can't really siam in time. Counter battery fire is usually tube artillery cos they react faster too. MLRS counter battery, not very common unless they've been dedicated to that task, waiting just for the counter-shot with area saturation munitions.
I'm not saying that the Pegasus is lousy compared to the M777. I think its in many aspects a better gun. However, what they USMC chooses to use is their business, and if they are interested in the Pegasus, then so be it.
Honestly, what I find annoying is when Lionnoisy's threads degenerate into a "Singapore self-stroking its own balls", comparing with other systems and claiming how superior it is to foreign systems. The Indian, Chinese and Malaysian military forums do that, I don't care. I just find it sick when we emulate them.
i thought US army doctrine was to use MLRS as a commander's shotgun, as counter barrage artillery and high value target/mass area target effect ?
hmm, Lionnoisy's thread usually degenerate into a My balls bigger than you balls, kinda comparison (if it can even be justifably called that)
i have no beef if it is representative of ignorance or lack of knowledge. but i really cannot stand the utter lack of balance and barely hidden bigotry of lionnoisy's content.
dont worry about it dude. its just lionnoisy. how many actively agree with him ? how many actively oppose him ?
btw, i just looked at our orbat. for our number of artillery batteries, we have a interesting number of guns being fielded. this is really interesting imo. why so many types when we have a handful of batteries and a chronic shortage of manpower ?
wont it make more sense to convert all into a 52 calibre of a sole mix, instead of having a mix of 39 and 52 cal systems, with organic mortar's of different calibres and categories in infantry and armour organic mortar platoons ? it would definitely streamline operations and cut running costs.
i understand that the pegasus fulfills a niche in our inventory. occupying the role of a light forward field howitzer in support of marine/rapid aggressive light infantry battalion level tactics.
but was the development and procurement justifiable in the circumstances where an avaliable substitute of equivalent class (m777) ? would have modifying the m777 with an APU and auto-loader been a more cost-effective means ?
what will happen to the pegasus when that niche can readily be fulfilled by a newer generation of platforms like SRAMS mounted on LSV or on Broncos (albiet with compromises but offering greater mobility and speed) ? the pegasus fills a niche, yes, but at that kinda production levels, per unit costs must be high.
personally i dont see the need for the pegasus if SRAMS can effectively substitute it in its niche. which means its a white elephant/ orphaned platform which fulfills a minor niche.
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Yeah, the Commander's personal shotgun, and hence dedicated for a single counter-battery blanket. Means they won't be supporting any fire mission just in case some enemy arty springs up.
The SRAMs max engagement distance is only about 13km with ER Munitions. The pegasus can hit further than that w/ similar munitions.
Cost efficiency is one thing, impact over the active unit's readiness is another. There are other opportunity costs that don't necessarily equate to dollars and cents. For STK, since they have the knowledge and experience of designing howitzers, why not? Generate jobs also. =D
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The Pegasus really, like the M777, is a light infantry man's personal gun, along side the GMLRS. The real idea was to allow light infantry to access its own heavy weapons without relying on SP artillery, as the SP artillery might be busy supporting the armoured fist. Also, light infantry like airbourne units do not have the option of having heavy armour because air transports can only carry so much weight. Who wants to reassemble a 30-50 tonne SP artillery piece after it lands?
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hmm, but firesupport from a light artillery piece like the pegasus vis a vis the dedicated organic support of a SRAMs battery , how are they different ?
i mean, as opposed to supporting a exclusive battery of 12-24 pegasus for our light infantry battalions, we could have 12 SRAMs bronco's to be dropped in together with them.
the broncos would be self propelled, able to keep up with their rapid advance, and will not become redundant if heli support becomes incapicitated.
only problem would be a trade off in range. that might be a big liability/capability gap.might be entering the enemy's firing radius
but pegasus being a forward deployed light howitzer system, might need a large protection detail. no problem if you chuck in a couple of SRAMS in a bronco. real shoot and scoot.
in any case, just curious, no idea if there's been a precedent of this before, but can artillery pieces be deployed upon the decks of our LST's ? e.g seabourne firesupport / naval gunfire ? but not really practical or ideal since we have a pretty good number of ships with oto melera cannons.
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the SRAMs were designed to replace the M113 mortar carriers that was to provide organic arty fire for the armoured battalion. basically with the SRAMs each armoured battalion can call for arty more quickly and accurately since the mortar system was built onto the rear cab and and rounds will be fed to the enemy at a faster rate as well. if i'm not wrong response time is shorter as well due to automated aiming systems.
the Primus, OTOH, is the armoured brigade's organic arty system. if i may so speculate, i feel that the GMLRS will end up becoming the division commander's shotgun :D
back to the SRAMs/Primus thingy, we can draw a parallel between the standard infantry mortar team for the Guards battalion and the Pegasus for the heliborne brigade. from a strategic POV, Pegasus, like the Guardsmen, will be deployed pretty far from home in a really short time, but in a tactical sense they will not be that close to the frontline as the mortar tubes will be.
2 cents worth :D -
I see our SRAMs on our broncos as a form of infantry fire support. The Russians themselves have self-propelled mortars of 120mm diameter if I am not wrong to provide fire support for infantry. Mortars have severe disadvantages with regard to range and firepower when compared against a 155mm 39caliber gun, but it is excellent for close quarter support, as well as, faster reload times.
The GMLRS fills a slightly different niche in that it has longer range, more firepower and precision (actually laser guided arty rounds might be just as good). It's more or less a done deal that we are procuring it, though it is not overtly reported. They did showcase a small poster at the Defence Science Exhibition recently.
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Although mortars are more inaccurate than guns, they are able to respond very quickly to calls for fire. They are also employed close to the front line & their shorter range may then not be too big a disadvantage. Mortar bombs are also highly effective & the 120 mm carries a big bang. Being organic to a battalion, they are close to the fight and will be highly valued by the infantry companies facing the enemy on the front lines facing.
History shows that accurate & heavy mortar fire can severly disrupt or break up an enemy attack or can rain extremely effective suppressive fire on an enemy position.
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Although mortars are more inaccurate than guns, they are able to respond very quickly to calls for fire. They are also employed close to the front line & their shorter range may then not be too big a disadvantage. Mortar bombs are also highly effective & the 120 mm carries a big bang. Being organic to a battalion, they are close to the fight and will be highly valued by the infantry companies facing the enemy on the front lines facing.
History shows that accurate & heavy mortar fire can severly disrupt or break up an enemy attack or can rain extremely effective suppressive fire on an enemy position.
You could achieve similar precision with 120mm laser guided mortar rounds, if the army wants to buy them.
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hmm..
so let me summarize points of discussion
pegasus/m777 = brigade level assets.
SRAMS = battalion organic level asset
m777/pegasus + SRAMS= complementary. one takes care of immediate close range firesupport. the other takes care of longer range, dedicated firesupport ?
SRAMS as a replacement/substitute to LWH :
positive points :useful as a form of immediate firesupport, great for breaking enemy morale and positions. shoot and scoot= higher survivability. greater crew protection. possible for increased accuracy with laser-guided mortar shells
negative points: lack of range compared to a dedicated artillery battery. inaccurate
@fingolfin noldor : any idea how the laser works for a mortar ? i find it quite puzzling. mortar trajectory as usually quite different from the flight path of say, a JDAM
on a side note : this caps 2 days straight of no lionnoisy posting. you guys think we can get a streak of 3 days without him appearing ?
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Same way a laser guided arty shell like Russian Krasnopol and the US Copperhead. You get a laser designator and illuminate your target. Fit a laser seeker and some guidance fins on your mortar bomb. Of course the laser seeker has to survive the intense barrel pressures on the way out. Then fire the mortar bomb. The four-quadrant detector in the seeker should be able to guide the mortar to the target. I'm not sure if laser guided 120mm mortar bombs are in use, but 155mm and 122mm and 152mm laser guided shells are already out there in use with decent accuracy.
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I'm not so sure its that simple. The laser seeker has to detect the laser targeting the target. With a 4 quadrant seeker, it might be able to detect the beam. But with the high trajectory of the mortar, the projectile will probably need fins as well to guide the seeker. The standard mortar bomb's design isn't suited for fins so a re-design of the shell is probably needed.
I think that's what Sweden did for the Strix mortar bomb. I think the Krasnopol & copperhead had fins as well.
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On a separate note...
Back when arty issued its 1988 commemorative book, it was mentioned that 120mm mortar was meant to be brigade fire support and the howitzers (at that time developing the 39 calibre) were for divisional fire support.
Today, either numbers for fire support has gone up for divisions, we have more divisions or that fire support for brigades include howitzers as well.
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Originally posted by slim10:
I'm not so sure its that simple. The laser seeker has to detect the laser targeting the target. With a 4 quadrant seeker, it might be able to detect the beam. But with the high trajectory of the mortar, the projectile will probably need fins as well to guide the seeker. The standard mortar bomb's design isn't suited for fins so a re-design of the shell is probably needed.
I think that's what Sweden did for the Strix mortar bomb. I think the Krasnopol & copperhead had fins as well.
I did say add some guidance fins...
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Originally posted by sgstars:
shotgun, he just dosent get it. he probably wont.
ok lionnoisy , since you prove yourself to be capable of reading english, nor understanding it.
here's it in pictures
sorry... allow me to cut out all the excess picture to save space.
its a nice presentation... but i think you can see the flaws in it as well.
the minute enemy conducts a counter battery fire... they too are now being zeroed in by another group of friendly artillery.
so... honestly the enemy counter battery do NOT have the luxury of taking their time to hit all the possible escape routes... at best, they make a guess, fire a rapid three and make a run for their own lives... but of course you could make up the numbers counter battery shots by having more tubes on the hot.
while APU may not sound much, it could mean a difference.
for eg. (getting long winded here)
6 pegasus open a rapid 3 on target A... starts to make a run.
6 G-5 open a rapid 3 on pegasus position... now it too must make a run as...
6 FH88 open a rapid 3 on G-5 last known position... and (you guessed it) make a run for it...
6 FH-77 open a rapid 3 on FH88 last known position and... (need i repeat?) make a run.
6 Primus open a rapid 3 on FH-77 last known position and.... (fill in yourself)
and it goes on and on....
so... as you can see... the APU could make a difference... assuming the enemy are limited to a rapid 3, having the APU could mean a serious difference.
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yeap.
i do note the possibility of counter counter battery fire. but this is a simplified example showing pegasus vs astros scenario. very limited.
its sole purpose is to illustrate the fact that while shoot and scoot is useful. people often forget to factor in terrain / access routes. not necessary to postulate a u shoot me and i shoot you.
we all know that in all probability, the enemy artillery has been surpressed by air force CAS or unaware of our friendly guns firing position. achieving sit awareness superiority over the enemy and preventing them from doing so is equally important.
tracking fire is one thing. once enemy position has been triangulated, you can estimate roughly where and what routes the enemy will take to scoot away.
plus note that i m being really very liberal with my astro's CEPand landing area. these are astros and not regular tube artillery.
Yes, APU is useful. but u really think the APU can squeeze out 12kmph in muddy ground ? why is it that the FH88 a heavier gun's APU can manage 16kmph self propelled but a later generation of howitzer like the pegasus can only manage 12kmph ? seems like a step backward ainnit ?
and if APU is the save all, solve all solution (which it isnt and lionnoisy think it is), how does a SPLWH (self propelled light weight howitzer) carriy its ammo rounds and supplies ?
are the escorting troops/ protection party expected to run alongside the pegasus carrying arty rounds ? can the APU tow a complement of rounds ?
do note, i dont disagree with the concept of the APU. its just that the APU isnt the miraculous solution lionnoisy is spouting. the way i understand it, the APU is more for facilitating fast deployment and autoloading rather than actually moving the pegasus around.
having an APU dosent allow the pegasus to suddenly defy laws of gravity and achieve super rapid cross country movement. neither does it offer increased mobility relative to towed howitzers.
it offers a redundancy and a capability to move unaided or self propelled without a tonner but dosent mean it is designed to operate without a tonner or aerial replenishment.
do think about it. the APU dosent provide a paradigm shift in the way the pegasus functions as a howitzer. it merely gives it added capabilities. ( run and survive) which i feel are severely ovverated. ovverated in the sense, what good is a howitzer without a ammo supply ? what good is a unprotected howitzer (vul to SOF directed air strike and attack)
the APU allows u to move and leave an area faster . YES, but does it allow you to bypass roads and cut through terrain ? the answer is still no. which kinda deflates the whole point of shoot and scoot. its kinda like a chokepoint. trap the enemy with superior fire and there is still a higher likelihood of u destroying the enemy.
hmm, your scenario seems a little stretched right ? mine is just showing how a counter battery fire which is well thought out and planned can eliminate an artillery batery. yours is a fully fledged all out fire support war (arty vs arty)
in any case, Pegasus are likely to be deployed as our guardsmen brigade/ divisional assets. dont think counter battery roles would be assigned to them. that would likely be our GMLRS Himars.
the primus is a armour brigade asset. unlikely for it to be deployed in counter battery role but in the networked 3G SAF, possible but unlikely given that all your assets need to be in a really tight/ small area for so many units to be firing at any one time.
you do make the point that the APU is useful in a run run shoot shoot encounter but kindly substantiate it. i agree its useful. but my point here is, in what kind of operational context ? can APU mobility exceed towed cross country speeds ? is the APU pegasus expected to operate independently without protection or ammunition trains ?
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Originally posted by sgstars:
yeap.
i do note the possibility of counter counter battery fire. but this is a simplified example showing pegasus vs astros scenario. very limited.
its sole purpose is to illustrate the fact that while shoot and scoot is useful. people often forget to factor in terrain / access routes. not necessary to postulate a u shoot me and i shoot you.
we all know that in all probability, the enemy artillery has been surpressed by air force CAS or unaware of our friendly guns firing position. achieving sit awareness superiority over the enemy and preventing them from doing so is equally important.
tracking fire is one thing. once enemy position has been triangulated, you can estimate roughly where and what routes the enemy will take to scoot away.
plus note that i m being really very liberal with my astro's CEPand landing area. these are astros and not regular tube artillery.
Yes, APU is useful. but u really think the APU can squeeze out 12kmph in muddy ground ? why is it that the FH88 a heavier gun's APU can manage 16kmph self propelled but a later generation of howitzer like the pegasus can only manage 12kmph ? seems like a step backward ainnit ?
and if APU is the save all, solve all solution (which it isnt and lionnoisy think it is), how does a SPLWH (self propelled light weight howitzer) carriy its ammo rounds and supplies ?
are the escorting troops/ protection party expected to run alongside the pegasus carrying arty rounds ? can the APU tow a complement of rounds ?
do note, i dont disagree with the concept of the APU. its just that the APU isnt the miraculous solution lionnoisy is spouting. the way i understand it, the APU is more for facilitating fast deployment and autoloading rather than actually moving the pegasus around.
having an APU dosent allow the pegasus to suddenly defy laws of gravity and achieve super rapid cross country movement. neither does it offer increased mobility relative to towed howitzers.
it offers a redundancy and a capability to move unaided or self propelled without a tonner but dosent mean it is designed to operate without a tonner or aerial replenishment.
do think about it. the APU dosent provide a paradigm shift in the way the pegasus functions as a howitzer. it merely gives it added capabilities. ( run and survive) which i feel are severely ovverated. ovverated in the sense, what good is a howitzer without a ammo supply ? what good is a unprotected howitzer (vul to SOF directed air strike and attack)
the APU allows u to move and leave an area faster . YES, but does it allow you to bypass roads and cut through terrain ? the answer is still no. which kinda deflates the whole point of shoot and scoot. its kinda like a chokepoint. trap the enemy with superior fire and there is still a higher likelihood of u destroying the enemy.
hmm, your scenario seems a little stretched right ? mine is just showing how a counter battery fire which is well thought out and planned can eliminate an artillery batery. yours is a fully fledged all out fire support war (arty vs arty)
in any case, Pegasus are likely to be deployed as our guardsmen brigade/ divisional assets. dont think counter battery roles would be assigned to them. that would likely be our GMLRS Himars.
the primus is a armour brigade asset. unlikely for it to be deployed in counter battery role but in the networked 3G SAF, possible but unlikely given that all your assets need to be in a really tight/ small area for so many units to be firing at any one time.
you do make the point that the APU is useful in a run run shoot shoot encounter but kindly substantiate it. i agree its useful. but my point here is, in what kind of operational context ? can APU mobility exceed towed cross country speeds ? is the APU pegasus expected to operate independently without protection or ammunition trains ?
SPLWH (self propelled light weight howitzer)cant carry the ammo.
Bronco can.
you do make the point that the APU is useful in a run run shoot shoot encounter but kindly substantiate it. i agree its useful. but my point here is, in what kind of operational context ? can APU mobility exceed towed cross country speeds ? is the APU pegasus expected to operate independently without protection or ammunition trains ?
Of course APU SP cant match towed speed.The latter trouble is u need to sweat
a little bit to fold the gun and mount the gun into the tonner and
vice versa when u reach your next firing position.U have to do it even it is
10 meter away!!With APU,u just press few buttons!!Even u need to
change the gun outside the traverse range,u need sweat a little bit.
See how FH 2000 gunners do--
u compare powered and powerless gun then u know the differences.
Pretend u are the gunners,which one will u choose?
The unique feature of the FH2000 is the automation of most of its functions. Almost anything can be accomplished by operating a few buttons or levers.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2004/nov/01nov04_nr/01nov04_fs.html
fff
fff
if u read M 777,all are by manual,except the hand pumps!!
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Janes does not say much on operations on Pegasus.
I dunt think MINDEF will allow the operations poorer than FH 2000.
Again what are the costs ,benefits and risks of additional gears.
In this case in the APU.U are welcome to put forward your ideas.
No need to be shy!!
My poiny is,with APU u have better chance to
Hide
Shoot
Scoot
hide and
WAIT again!!
Without APU,u just
shoot
wait and
pray!!Unless a tonner is waiting for u in your firing position.
In war,it is not up to you to write the scripts.
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Dunt count on the protections!!
Save your ass and save the troubles of your mates.
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Sorry F_N, did not note your earlier mention of fins. Also, as mentioned, mortar bombs shape does not allow fins so a redesign of shell is probably needed.
Also noted that the Strix is IR guided and not laser guided.
http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/strix.htm
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Sorry F_N, did not note your earlier mention of fins. Also, as mentioned, mortar bombs shape does not allow fins so a redesign of shell is probably needed.
Also noted that the Strix is IR guided and not laser guided.
http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/strix.htm