M777 vs. Pegasus
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What this fucker does not understand is that different countries have different requirements. The M777 is expected to not fight on level ground but up on mountain sides. It is a true light infantry howitzer with a small footprint.
On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.
But nada, this moron will never understand.
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
What this fucker does not understand is that different countries have different requirements. The M777 is expected to not fight on level ground but up on mountain sides. It is a true light infantry howitzer with a small footprint.
On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.
But nada, this moron will never understand.
he wont ! thats because he cant get it into his lion skull.
hmm, ive never heard of why M777 was designed for high altitude combat on mountains. why is that so ?
you comparing them in the context of the indian army tender ?
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Originally posted by sgstars:
LOL moron lion, tell me, how do counter-battery artillery fire and radar detect the M777 before m777 fire ?
in case you realize, what is the range of arty ? you mean USMC or US army commanders are retarded to enough to site an artillery battery within range of counter battery fire ?
*yawn* in case you havent realized, pegasus APU is more for autoloading rather than moving the pegasus around.
use a brain will you ? pegasus APU has a speed of 12km/H. ok, lets say pegasus fire on enemy position, shell takes 15 mins to reach the enemy position. enemy counter battery radar tracks the shell, pinpoints the pegasus firing position.
ASSUMING no time is needed to pack the pegasus and assuming that the terrain is complete flat ground and the top speed of 12km/h is achieved (which isnt possible) and assuming that the enemy counter battery fire takes 20 mins to fire and for the shells to hit the position
u realize that your pegasus has only moved 4km ? you realize that if the enemy has a MLRS fire battery dedicated to counter battery fire that would be the end of the entire pegasus artillery battery ? you realize even a regular artillery battery would be able to obliterate that grid square ?
you realize that studying map terrain and extrapolating from the approximate fire position, the enemy is able to destroy , block or cut off the pegasus regiment from any evacuation point or resup point ?
you realize you just SELF-PWNED ?
and yes, i think we should all take a 286 or 1st gen mobile phone and throw it at your head. you arent using it moron. you deserve it for talking crap like this .
and please answer this qn :
wtf is a double clutch landrover ?
wtf is a queene ?
wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?
wtf are you ?
____________________________________________________________
i am still waiting for an answer ?
dont hum ji and hide. answer my questions. why ? kena pwned in logic u simply spam old nonsense is it ?
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
What this fucker does not understand is that different countries have different requirements. The M777 is expected to not fight on level ground but up on mountain sides. It is a true light infantry howitzer with a small footprint.
On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.
But nada, this moron will never understand.
kkk
Can u move a M 777 up or down a HDB car park ramp,with the 8 to 10
gunners?Do u think on mountain sides (ask u say) will post a more challenge
situation for u ,if not impossible, to move your 3175 kg M 777?
FYI,a 1.6 to 1.8 liter Japanse saloon weigh 1200 to 1400 kg.
That mean ,with 10 guys,u have to move a weight of 3 saloon cars
up and down on mountain sides?Dunt forget it is a rough terrain,with rocks
on the ground.I think u can if u are on flat and smooth parade ground.
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i suggest u ask 10 guys to push a lorry up a HDB carpark ramp.
If u can,then come back and tell us.
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Weigh is not a problem if u have a APU--engine to move the gun.
But it is a problem if u are powerless and very light say,3175 kg!!
If u dare to tell me u can push 3175 kg up and down
a HDB car park ramp with 10 men,then i salute u.
If u cant,then dunt think about move a M 777 in mountain sides.
http://www.toyotasingapore.com.sg/cars/new_cars/corolla_asia/fullspecs.asp
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Originally posted by sgstars:Originally posted by sgstars:
1.LOL moron lion, tell me, how do counter-battery artillery fire and radar detect the M777 before m777 fire ?
in case you realize, what is the range of arty ? you mean USMC or US army commanders are retarded to enough to site an artillery battery within range of counter battery fire ?
2.*yawn* in case you havent realized, pegasus APU is more for autoloading rather than moving the pegasus around.
use a brain will you ? pegasus APU has a speed of 12km/H. ok, lets say pegasus fire on enemy position, shell takes 15 mins to reach the enemy position. enemy counter battery radar tracks the shell, pinpoints the pegasus firing position.
ASSUMING no time is needed to pack the pegasus and assuming that the terrain is complete flat ground and the top speed of 12km/h is achieved (which isnt possible) and assuming that the enemy counter battery fire takes 20 mins to fire and for the shells to hit the position
u realize that your pegasus has only moved 4km ? you realize that if the enemy has a MLRS fire battery dedicated to counter battery fire that would be the end of the entire pegasus artillery battery ? you realize even a regular artillery battery would be able to obliterate that grid square ?
you realize that studying map terrain and extrapolating from the approximate fire position, the enemy is able to destroy , block or cut off the pegasus regiment from any evacuation point or resup point ?
you realize you just SELF-PWNED ?
and yes, i think we should all take a 286 or 1st gen mobile phone and throw it at your head. you arent using it moron. you deserve it for talking crap like this .
and please answer this qn :
wtf is a double clutch landrover ?
wtf is a queene ?
wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?
wtf are you ?
____________________________________________________________
i am still waiting for an answer ?
dont hum ji and hide. answer my questions. why ? kena pwned in logic u simply spam old nonsense is it ?
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To your Q1:
If USMC commander know the ability of counter fire,he has a crystal ball.
In war or conflict,u dunt know what u dunt know.
Q2----APU is for short range movement and loading shell.
i read FH 88 or 2000 can move SP 60 km without refilling.
U say assume no time to pack....
With the APU,u just press few butons and let the machine do the job.
It take less than 3 mins to emplace and displace.
If the time is not enogh,then it is too bad becos it is the best
we give to SAF.If Pegasus cant do fast enough with machine,
how about M 777 which is powerless?
Pegasu shoot and scoot can increase the chance to survive.
I am sure it is much better than sitting duck M 777,before
towing facilities arrive.
I dunt know if MLRS or heli to block Pegasus and kill the battery.
The CO shall put a reasonable protection blanket for them.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
he wont ! thats because he cant get it into his lion skull.
hmm, ive never heard of why M777 was designed for high altitude combat on mountains. why is that so ?
you comparing them in the context of the indian army tender ?
I'm basing this on the fact that the US Army uses the gun to fight in Afghanistan, a country well known for hilly areas that are pretty inaccessible to most vehicles. In fact the gun has been great in Afghanistan, offering firepower for the infantry units fighting on the hill sides.
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i hope u didn't mean they have to push it using hands. cuz that is plain retarded to even bring up and mentionOriginally posted by lionnoisy:Can u move a M 777 up or down a HDB car park ramp,with the 8 to 10
gunners?
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
I'm basing this on the fact that the US Army uses the gun to fight in Afghanistan, a country well known for hilly areas that are pretty inaccessible to most vehicles. In fact the gun has been great in Afghanistan, offering firepower for the infantry units fighting on the hill sides.
Yes,the M 777 is very good for location where
u dunt expect any counter fire.Counter fire means from artiller,armour,
infantry and aircrafts etc.If u heli a M 777 ,u will expose it for counter fire
with immobility for an initial period!!
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
What this fucker does not understand is that different countries have different requirements. The M777 is expected to not fight on level ground but up on mountain sides. It is a true light infantry howitzer with a small footprint.
On the other hand, the Pegasus is large compared to the M777 and that may be a disadvantage fighting on uneven ground.
But nada, this moron will never understand.
In a hilly areas,Will u choose a movable but heavier Pegasus or
a immovable M 777?u need a Land Rover or a truck to tow it.
Can the truck move in the location,not to mention to tow M 777?
Can u move M 777 with 8 men in a hilly areas by brutal force?
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If few men can push a car up HDB Car park ramp and
pull it down a ramp under control,then 10 men have a chance to move
M 777 in hilly area.Bear in mind the hill may be more steep and more
rough than HDB CP!!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777_howitzer
The gun max traverse is 23 degree right or left.
Lets say u have to turn the gun outside this range,say 30 degree,
can u move the gun without much sweat?
U have to operate a hand pump to jack up the wheels.
Then u have to move this about 3200 kg monster for few feet!!
Then u have to operate hand pump to put down the wheels etc.
Remember it is a powerless howeritze!!
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SO.. .let me get this straight Lionnoisy.
Say you are up on a hill top. PRetty steep. So what good again is a small jeep with a gun on the back? ARe you suggesting the jeep should "run off the cliff"?
Why do you think they have a helicopter near by? If the US Army wants fire mobility, they would haul up a M109 Paladin. WTF do they need a M777? An M777 is a specialised firesupport unit that is air transportable and even more mobile than your "much vaunted Pegasus" which needs a larger helicopter. If they move it, they do so with a helicopter. Never mind that the SAF probably doesn't have that many helicopters anyway for this sort of thing.
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
To your Q1:
If USMC commander know the ability of counter fire,he has a crystal ball.
In war or conflict,u dunt know what u dunt know
tell me lionnoisy ? do you even understand the concept of military intelligence ? satellite recon, UAV ? eyeball mk1 ? SOF ?
information is power. guard that well. that is why the USMC or US army commander has things like Blue force tracker and an unrivalled SITREP command with access to multiple intelligence assets.
its clearly obvious you dont know what u dont know. and the joke is on you. u dont even know what u dont know you are blundering into.
Q2----APU is for short range movement and loading shell.
i read FH 88 or 2000 can move SP 60 km without refilling.
U say assume no time to pack....
With the APU,u just press few butons and let the machine do the job.
It take less than 3 mins to emplace and displace.
If the time is not enogh,then it is too bad becos it is the best
we give to SAF.If Pegasus cant do fast enough with machine,
how about M 777 which is powerless?
Pegasu shoot and scoot can increase the chance to survive.
I am sure it is much better than sitting duck M 777,before
towing facilities arrive.
big mistake. u realized that your information absolutely wrong ? FH88 and FH2000 are not self propelled. rely on truck or vehicle to tow.
what nonsense are you talking now ?
3 mins not time is it ? what happens when APU fail ? what happens when APU damaged ? pegasus becomes like you ? big, high profile but absolutely USELESS ? giant piece of metal crap ? (in your case mental crap) ?
shoot and scoot ? dont make me laugh. you clearly demonstrate no knowledge about artillery operational doctrine and so kindly STFU. u think its possible to shoot and scoot in 3 mins in that kinda timing under operational conditions ? you think your terrain gentle and forgiving on you ?
you think every battle is fought on perfectly flat land ground like tennis court ? u shoot i shoot ?
think again and think hard. because you obviously havent done it. APU isnt used for shoot and scoot. its more for its autoloading fuctions than anything else. the APU only serves as a driving motor in a secondary backup capacity in case it cannot be moved by transport vehicles.
m777 cannot use ATV or humvee to pull ? m777 supported by how many helicopter assets ? m777 can be lifted by what range of helicopter assets in USMC or US army inventory ? CH53 ? blackhawk ? MV 22 ospery ? CH-47D ?
Pegasus can be lifted by how many assets in RSAF inventory ? please answer this question. remember that Pegasus is a specialized product to overcome specialized needs that pose a operational liability in manpower scarce SAF
I dunt know if MLRS or heli to block Pegasus and kill the battery.
The CO shall put a reasonable protection blanket for them.
what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?
MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.
and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.
answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?
YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
SO.. .let me get this straight Lionnoisy.
Say you are up on a hill top. PRetty steep. So what good again is a small jeep with a gun on the back? ARe you suggesting the jeep should "run off the cliff"?
Why do you think they have a helicopter near by? If the US Army wants fire mobility, they would haul up a M109 Paladin. WTF do they need a M777? An M777 is a specialised firesupport unit that is air transportable and even more mobile than your "much vaunted Pegasus" which needs a larger helicopter. If they move it, they do so with a helicopter. Never mind that the SAF probably doesn't have that many helicopters anyway for this sort of thing.
wow.u dunt know M 777 is a replacement for M 109 towed gun?
M 777 is not to replace Paladin which is a armoured SPH.
Dunt mix up a towed gun and a armoured SPH Paladin.The latter will be replaced
by NLOS--Cannon(under development!!)!!
Do u think SSPH Primus--in production n services -- can do the jobs of NLOS-Cannon??
http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ByCapabilities/index.htm
NLOS Cannon---what a name which can scare u ,but not me!!
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M777 Light weight is for easy transport!!
So,can u expect a tonner there to wait for M 777?
There fore,M 777 is immovable before towing facilities arrive,
be it a tonner or horses or donkeys or men!!
The M777 was designed and developed by BAE Systems, and is a joint program between the Army and Marine Corps to replace the M198 towed howitzer.
http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2005/press_20012005.html
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the big brothers of M 777 (in operation 2005) and Pegasus
(unveiled 2005)are M 198 (in operation 1979)and FH 2000 (unveiled 1995)respectively.
If u compare the two big brothers,u will see FH 2000 get many unique
features.From setting up gun,setting elevation and traverse,ramming shell,
extract remainder after firing etc.all are assisted by machine.
While M 198 are done by men.
After trials, the XM198 was standardised as the M198 and production commenced at Rock Island Arsenal in 1978 with first production weapons completed in July 1978.
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pl watch the videos at
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/topics/3g/Videos.html
Mar 07 -
King of the Battlefield - The Singapore Artillerypl pay attention to the operation of gun...
and compare the youtubes of M 198 and 777.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF1lKU39qDA&feature=related
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u can see FH 2000 (13,200 kg)is much heavier than M 198(7160 kg).
But the former get power to move around and to assist the operation
of the gun.It can escape counter fire on SP!!
The latter,though much lighter,pay a heavy price for powerless!!
So,Yankees get a tradition of being light in pure towed gun(
NO SP at all) but much lighter!!Is it worth for being just light,
but foregoing the benefits of fitted with a APU?
ref
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-52-calibre-FH2000-artillery-system-Singapore.html
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/155-mm-howitzer-M198-United-States.html
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/003131.html
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30 years has passed.Yankees still have to rod ramming the projectile
of M 198 and M 777, by men!!
http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/indirect/m198.html
below--top M 198 and bottom M 777.
FYI.M 777 is one of the stuff in Future Combat Sys!!
Future??
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if u dunt give SP capability to M 777,u need give another platform to move the gun!!
i agree if u tow the M 777 in long range,u need a tonner or the above.
But for short range,i prefer SP!!
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i have to say sorry to Sg Ty again and again,u are damn right that M 777 can fly.
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/003131.html
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u can drive a Pegasus away free and easy with one guy!!
Inserted by heli,hide,shoot,scoot,hide again....repeat..
No sitting duck in SAF!!But Pegasus!!
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the APU drive the Pegasus.Nvm the wetght of the gun!
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/topics/Weapons/slwh/multimedia.html#pegasus
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@lion m777 was not meant to do the job the pegasus can simply becuz the US thinks they have other ways to get around it. they lowered the weight so that it can be towed quicker than the m198 and can be carried by heli. with that, they were happy enough. btw US believes the tonners should hang around the deployed arty pieces. if your argument is about how much better the gun become after automation, if it does, pls make it clear.
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Originally posted by sgstars:Originally posted by lionnoisy:
tell me lionnoisy ? do you even understand the concept of military intelligence ? satellite recon, UAV ? eyeball mk1 ? SOF ?
information is power. guard that well. that is why the USMC or US army commander has things like Blue force tracker and an unrivalled SITREP command with access to multiple intelligence assets.
its clearly obvious you dont know what u dont know. and the joke is on you. u dont even know what u dont know you are blundering into.
big mistake. u realized that your information absolutely wrong ? FH88 and FH2000 are not self propelled. rely on truck or vehicle to tow.
what nonsense are you talking now ?
3 mins not time is it ? what happens when APU fail ? what happens when APU damaged ? pegasus becomes like you ? big, high profile but absolutely USELESS ? giant piece of metal crap ? (in your case mental crap) ?
shoot and scoot ? dont make me laugh. you clearly demonstrate no knowledge about artillery operational doctrine and so kindly STFU. u think its possible to shoot and scoot in 3 mins in that kinda timing under operational conditions ? you think your terrain gentle and forgiving on you ?
you think every battle is fought on perfectly flat land ground like tennis court ? u shoot i shoot ?
think again and think hard. because you obviously havent done it. APU isnt used for shoot and scoot. its more for its autoloading fuctions than anything else. the APU only serves as a driving motor in a secondary backup capacity in case it cannot be moved by transport vehicles.
m777 cannot use ATV or humvee to pull ? m777 supported by how many helicopter assets ? m777 can be lifted by what range of helicopter assets in USMC or US army inventory ? CH53 ? blackhawk ? MV 22 ospery ? CH-47D ?
Pegasus can be lifted by how many assets in RSAF inventory ? please answer this question. remember that Pegasus is a specialized product to overcome specialized needs that pose a operational liability in manpower scarce SAF
what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?
MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.
and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.
answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?
YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.
answer question please :)
i rebutt you and u dont dare answer me ? hello ? what nonsense is this ?
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Originally posted by sgstars:Originally posted by lionnoisy:show
what kinda fucked up logic is this ? so pegasus can have resonable protection blanket and USMC and US army M777A1 and A2 batteries cannot have reasonable protection blanket ?
MLRS has a massive kill zone. with the evolving trend of GLMRS, there's an even higher likelihood of percision counter battery fire designed to destroy enemy batteries.
and do you even understand the concept of protection blanket ? CO is concerned with Local area protection blanket.
answer the question now, how can a local protection blanket (1~2 km) protect against counter-battery fire with 40km range for regular artillery and approximately >70 km for GLMRS / MLRS batteries ?
YAWN lionnoisy. its christmas day. stop crapping. merry christmas idiot. i m dead certain there's a lump of coal in your stocking for all your idiocity here.
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reply to sg stars
Shoot and scoot brother!!
Shoot and move randomly for few hundred meters!!
THis is SOP .If not what is better options?
Dunt send LWH?Shoot and pray? Shoot and dump the gun and run away?
In life,when u have try your best and get killed.This is fate.
At least u can shoot and scoot.Not a sitting duck!!
At least u no need wait for tonner to tow u.
Can the tonner arrive soon if u are inserted in mountain location?
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I invite u to compare M 198 (1979) and FH 88 (1988).
FH 88 is much heavier,but get APU!!FH 88 is not so far behind M 198
in rate of fires and range.
Does anyone say FH 88 is a copy cat of M 198?
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BTW what is probable errors of M 198?u can see FH 88's listed above.
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FH 88 (1988) gets layer's seat!!
"SAF FH-88, SAF Open House"
The next three photos are connected. A rather simplified three-in-a-row shots of FH-88 fast recovery for redeployment by skeleton crew. The actual setup timing to fire the first round was probably classified even though everyone know that it falls in around few minutes.
The second followup of the three images. The crew is rigging up the rope to pull the barrel back for recovery. If you are aware, the electro-hydraulic actuated "legs" are closing up at the same time.
The last of the three. The long barrel is clearly seen here as the crew are on the way to get it back. The development of this accurate gun shocked everyone when first introduced. Even though not as famous as the South African G-5, this national development enabled us not to rely on any gun supplier anymore for a very long time.
http://storm.webvis.net/album5.html
The firing mechanism is a mechanical 'trip action' type which is actuated either by pulling the lanyard or operating the firing handle at the layer's seat. Primer feeding and extraction is automatic using a 12-round magazine. A flick rammer is used with power derived from an independent power pack.The hydropneumatic recoil mechanism is of the independent-type single-recoil system.
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-FH-88-gun-howitzer-Singapore.html
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note the seat for layer and 6 wheels for easier mobility.
Towed gun but with SP capability--roads--16 and cross country 8 km /h!!
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sigh lionnoisy.
are you being stupid or are you just being yourself ? same thing ainnit ?
dont want to compare FH-88 and M198. simply put : NOT INTERESTED :)
you mentioned local protection blanket as the solution and shoot and scoot. what happens when i rebutt both ? please lah, dont make me laugh. u dont even understand protection blanket and u wanna trumpet shoot and scoot ?
must i prove it in hard pictures that you can understand ?
ok. here's a simple demonstration of why shoot and scoot dosent work especially when you are facing an enemy that has MLRS capabilities.
for starters, do read up
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/docops/fm100-12d/chap2.htm
2-21. While technically not missiles, LCRs and MLRSs appear with TBMs in this document because their size, trajectory, warheads, and battlefield targets are similar to those of SRBMs. LCRs are different from SRBMs in that they do not have onboard guidance and, thus, are unguided throughout their flight. Typical LCR systems are the Russian Luna M or free rocket over ground (FROG) series and the U.S. Honest John. MLRSs also lack onboard guidance, overcoming this shortfall by being employed in volleys of a hundred or more rockets on a single target. Typical MLRSs are the Brazilian Astros, Russian Smerch, and U.S. MLRS.
2-22. The ability of these systems to deliver high volumes of fire and a variety of warheads makes them ideal weapon systems for fire support missions. Highly mobile launchers effectively support forward artillery missions. This mobility and the rocket’s short burn time result in little warning for maneuver forces, and their short range precludes engagement by current missile defense systems. Figure 2-4 illustrates the MLRS characteristics.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publications/cyberpioneer/weapon/2004/may04_weapon.html
Due to its many different warheads, the ASTROS multiple rocket launcher is an ideal offensive weapon system. There are four warhead variants for the ASTROS launchers: the 32-round SS-30, 16-round SS-40, 4-round SS-60 and the 4-round SS-80. The difference in the variants lie in the weight and size of the rockets they fire. The numbers used in the variants indicate the range of the rockets; for example, the SS-80 has an impressive range of 90km.
Alternative munitions have also been developed. There is a high explosive white phosphorous incendiary warhead, which can be used against enemy personnel and material.
All the variants are high explosive-fragmentation warheads. Prior to an attack, they can be used to shatter enemy defences, allowing the infantry and armour to punch through. The launcher can swamp a target area with more high explosive than several batteries of conventional artillery.
It can also deploy smoke to conceal an impending attack. There is also a mine-deploying warhead, which can be used against soldiers and armoured vehicles. More ominously, the ASTROS system can be used to deliver chemical agents, which are far more lethal when delivered at one go rather than when it is steadily built up by a conventional artillery barrageok .. so death by mines, death by chemicals or death by saturation fire ?
tell me ? how lionnoisy how ?
and dont run away.. i m still waiting for these answers ?
wtf is a double clutch landrover ?
wtf is a queene ?
wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?
wtf are you ?
how come cannot differentiate between protection blanket ? and perimeter security ? dont know difference between local protection and battlefield scale protection ?
please dont call yourself my brother, you are a noisy stupid lion. how can i be related to you ? i m human, male and not a bigot, definitely not stupid and definitely not noisy.
how to even associate if there is no basis for commonality ?
dont slander the brotherhood of humanity with your association.