M777 vs. Pegasus
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Oh Dear,both M 777 and Pegasus are classified under Janes as
Towed anti-tank guns, guns and howitzers.
http://www.janes.com/articles/jaa/towed_anti-tank_guns,_guns_and_howitzers.html
YES!! YES!!
By your logic, Both Frigates and MCMVs are also ships classified under Jane's Fighting Ships. So, If u can compare a Towed 155mm and a SP 155mm, why can't i compare a Frigate and a MCMV together ???
Similar, Boeing 747 and C-130 are classified under Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide? Can I compare them also and ask why dun SAF use B747 instead???
Your answer is no. Because they are under different uses and purposes. Likewise, M777 and Pegasus are for different uses and purposes. Yes, both are howitzers, no doubt. Both are of same calibre no doubt. But, there is still a need for forces to have both towed and SP howitzers for tactical reasons. If not, why are FH2000 and some FH88 still in service? Why dun SAF (or other armed forces across the world fot that matter) just standardise and soley rely on SPHs ???
But, my main point is that, by comparing a TH and a SPH is like comparing a frigate to a MCMV, or, for ur dumb mind, a land rover and a 5-tonner together...
I know the reason, They know the reason ...
But it seems that u are the only one who doesn't know -
Originally posted by gd4u:
YES!! YES!!
By your logic, Both Frigates and MCMVs are also ships classified under Jane's Fighting Ships. So, If u can compare a Towed 155mm and a SP 155mm, why can't i compare a Frigate and a MCMV together ???
Similar, Boeing 747 and C-130 are classified under Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide? Can I compare them also and ask why dun SAF use B747 instead???
Your answer is no. Because they are under different uses and purposes. Likewise, M777 and Pegasus are for different uses and purposes. Yes, both are howitzers, no doubt. Both are of same calibre no doubt. But, there is still a need for forces to have both towed and SP howitzers for tactical reasons. If not, why are FH2000 and some FH88 still in service? Why dun SAF (or other armed forces across the world fot that matter) just standardise and soley rely on SPHs ???
But, my main point is that, by comparing a TH and a SPH is like comparing a frigate to a MCMV, or, for ur dumb mind, a land rover and a 5-tonner together...
I know the reason, They know the reason ...
But it seems that u are the only one who doesn't knowdude, dont bother wasting time to reply to him.
he's an attention-whore and deserves this, let me quote myself in a reply to his nonsense
i learn that to (pretty applicable to anyone who gets irritated with lionnoisy)
1) respond logically is to sublimally acknowledge the inherent stupidity in your logic and try to argue against something which is supremely flawed.
2) to respond is to lend your screwed up/ swiss cheese/ Illogic/UNlogic credibility
3) to lend your logic credibility, in any means, is to lend you credibility
4) to lend you credibility, is to justify and implicitly endorse, your existence here
5) to endorse your existence, would be to condone the content of your posting. which i will not do since i m intellectually opposed to your nonsense, morally apalled by your bigotry (and utter lack of respect and balance) and physically offended by your idiocity.
therefore, i conclude according to these four principles, you dont deserve a coherent response. a coherent response only serves to embolden you and encourage you. Do you give liquer chocolates to a recovering alcoholic ? do you bring a recovering drug addict to his pusher ? do you allow a porno addict access to porno films ?
Decartes was famous for these words, I think, therefore i am. let me borrow that and apply my understanding of that to you.
you crap, therefore you are crap.
therefore, cannot post replies, you are encouraging him.
You know the please do not feed lions sign at zoo ? yeap same principle applies here. do not attempt to encourage more fallacious postings
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Btw USMC using M777A2 already. They've integrated the Excalibur into the weapons and according to Colonel Peter Petronzio, CO of the 24th MEU, the M777A2 "performed like a rock star", executing more than 100 fire missions.
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Originally posted by gd4u:
YES!! YES!!
By your logic, Both Frigates and MCMVs are also ships classified under Jane's Fighting Ships. So, If u can compare a Towed 155mm and a SP 155mm, why can't i compare a Frigate and a MCMV together ???
Similar, Boeing 747 and C-130 are classified under Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide? Can I compare them also and ask why dun SAF use B747 instead???
Your answer is no. Because they are under different uses and purposes. Likewise, M777 and Pegasus are for different uses and purposes. Yes, both are howitzers, no doubt. Both are of same calibre no doubt. But, there is still a need for forces to have both towed and SP howitzers for tactical reasons. If not, why are FH2000 and some FH88 still in service? Why dun SAF (or other armed forces across the world fot that matter) just standardise and soley rely on SPHs ???
But, my main point is that, by comparing a TH and a SPH is like comparing a frigate to a MCMV, or, for ur dumb mind, a land rover and a 5-tonner together...
I know the reason, They know the reason ...
But it seems that u are the only one who doesn't knowOMG.u insist Pegasus is a SPH.Is it becos Pegasus
is better than M 777 then u need to classify Pegasus as SP?
Ususally,SPH come with armour.
Pl read how Janes classify
http://www.janes.com/articles.......wait and choose Land Force
http://www.janes.com/articles/indepth/jaa.html
Sections
- Analysis
- Armour and artillery in service
- Armoured command vehicles
- Armoured fighting vehicle families
- Armoured personnel carriers (tracked)
- Armoured personnel carriers (wheeled)
- Contractors
- Glossary
- Light tanks (under 25,000 kg)
- MBTs and medium tanks
- Multiple rocket launchers
- Reconnaissance vehicles
- Self-propelled guns and howitzers (tracked).....Primus SSPH ,M109A6 etc
- Self-propelled guns and howitzers (wheeled)
- Self-propelled mortar systems
- Tank destroyers
- Towed anti-tank guns, guns and howitzers.....Pegasus and M 777 etc
- @@@@@@@@@@@@
- Remember ,dunt say in this forum A is better than B.Or u will be banned.
- Especially,A is SG stuff!!
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
- @@@@@@@@@@@@
- Remember ,dunt say in this forum A is better than B.Or u will be banned.
- Especially,A is SG stuff!!
hey Mods !
lionnoisy seems to be suanning you guys for not "supporting" his position. alleging that it is wrong to take a pro-singaporean position.
contempt of court can be recontextualized into contempt of MOD ?
@lionnoisy
wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>and then repeat again
wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah
can you realize one thing ?we are not interested in your
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Originally posted by sgstars:
hey Mods !
lionnoisy seems to be suanning you guys for not "supporting" his position. alleging that it is wrong to take a pro-singaporean position.
contempt of court can be recontextualized into contempt of MOD ?
@lionnoisy
wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>
<paste link from Janes FREE information which is limited and incomplete>and then repeat again
wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah wall of blah
can you realize one thing ?we are not interested in your
nuisances.
Few versions of M777.SG Pegasus was fielded 2 years ahead of M777.
Who say we are copy cat?
BOQ
The M777A1 is a version of the M777 fitted
with onboard electronics, giving it selflocating,
self-laying and digital communications
similar to the M109A6 Paladin. The
M777A1 was unconditionally approved
for use by Army units in January 2007. The
USMC began fielding the M777 in January
2007 with the Army’s 2-11 Field Artillery,
becoming operational with the M777A1 in
January 2007. The new M777A2 adds the
ability to fire the Excalibur precisionguided
munition.EOQhttp://www.ausa.org/publications/armymagazine/armyarchive/October2008/Documents/04_Weapons_Ground.pdf
@@@@@@@@@@@2
Is it very trouble some to install and take down the sight before n
after the firing?Can anyone confirm this and if so,what is the reasons?
I always use the progress of handphone and computers
to compare with military gears,especially non--Singaporean stuff.
The foreign guys can stand for few decades old weapons stuff
and dunt improve it.But i know it is a very very...very long story.
I think HP and compter have changed for 5 to 10 generations
in the past 30 years.
BTW,how long it take to instal and remove it?
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UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...
Why, cannot ar ???(FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)
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Originally posted by gd4u:
UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...
Why, cannot ar ???(FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)
ST says
Pegasus 155mm 39 Calibre Light Weight Howitzer
A light weight 155mm 39 calibre howitzer, the Pegasus SLWH has self-propelled capability and is air- transportable by a C130 and CH47.
Did ST say it is a SPH?No.This is a towed gun with
self-propelled capability.
I wander why u guys so insist that Pegasus shall be a SP gun.
I just compare small small items with M 777 and dare not
to declare which one is better in OVERALL.
If u find anythings interesting about Pegasus,good or bad,
u can also share here.Why not?
So long the stuff can save the ass of SAF,I dunt care
u call it black cat or white.Right?
@@@@@@@@
But if u look at from another angle,u would think
a engine APU (the Auxiliary Power Unit)
shall be installed to add feasibilty to the towed gun.
U will tell me the cost lah,engine may break down,more weight lah
etc.Ok Ok.Pl tell me what are the plus points---
----assist to load the shells(Thats why Pegasus can shoot 2 /min for 30 min)
..........(no rod ramming is needed ,by 2 men!!)
-----set and reset the gun
---faster in dis/emplacement( a matter of live and death)
---better manuever in narrow terrain(urban)
---communications and sight setting.
The key is can the plus points warrant the installations.
Dunt tell me one side of the coin.Look at another side.
Weigh the pros and cons.Cost(capital and running costs,)
training,etc.
Decision is an art.There are too many smart guys just look
at one side of the coin.Which rule in books of army say
no engine shall be installed in towed gun?
Men shall not be bounded by stupid rules,if there is any.
It is just human bound by themselves.
When there is no towed gun with an engine in the inventory,
no one dare to propose one.What are the down sides if u instal
a engine in a towed gun?
Do u think it is fun to ram the shell into the chamber?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqmeobCFJtY&feature=related
look at them.I cant believe it is 2008.
@@@@@@@@@
BTW,SAF has stopped rod ramming the shell since 20 years ago in FH 88!!
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-FH-88-gun-howitzer-Singapore.html
Primer feeding and extraction is automatic using a 12-round magazine. A flick rammer is used with power derived from an independent power pack.
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vertical position and sight
http://myguidon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8046
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xGAWwdYcVlI/SM5Ny4KHtrI/AAAAAAAADJg/_DtsZyDRnjs/s1600-h/usa2.jpg
http://www.armchair-travel.com/military/M777.mpg
slide the play indicator to see 360 degree of the gun.
i think u need to instal 2 components of the sight brfore u fire!
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Originally posted by gd4u:
UR VERY HOLY STK pdf product file says it is SP ...
Why, cannot ar ???FUCK, I am turning into another lion noob)
I think i find a solution.Can u help write to Janes and ask them set up
a section called
the TIG stands for Towed Independent Gun.
Is it a good idea?Then we no need to argue if Pegasus is towed or not.
Just call it TIG!!
BTW--Besides Pegasus,Soltam TIG,what else are designed for long distance
Towed but can be SP for short distance.
pl read
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Soltam-Systems-155-mm-TIG-gun-howitzer-family-Israel.html
remember go to
www.janes.com/articles/ and wait.
The doors of Janes are open for u now!!
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The Self-Propelled Howitzer is meant to keep up with the rapid advance of armored formations in combat. If it can't keep up with the typical speeds of armored advance, it cannot be considered a self-propelled howitzer.
The Pegasus I believe is ordinarily towed. The ability to move itself allows the gun to positioned quickly without requiring the tonner driver to somehow maneuver the gun to the approximate position and having artillerymen set up by hand. IMO, it just hastens up the process which the pegasus can be deployed.
Another consideration is that the Pegasus is supposed to support guardsmen with their type of operation where it is required to be flown in. Now, can't expect to always have the Pegasus to be flown in together with a tonner right? So it requires some form of innate ability to move about.
As I've mentioned in the previous post. The Marines are pretty happy with the M777A2. Doesn't really have anything to do with our Pegasus.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
The Self-Propelled Howitzer is meant to keep up with the rapid advance of armored formations in combat. If it can't keep up with the typical speeds of armored advance, it cannot be considered a self-propelled howitzer.
The Pegasus I believe is ordinarily towed. The ability to move itself allows the gun to positioned quickly without requiring the tonner driver to somehow maneuver the gun to the approximate position and having artillerymen set up by hand. IMO, it just hastens up the process which the pegasus can be deployed.
Another consideration is that the Pegasus is supposed to support guardsmen with their type of operation where it is required to be flown in. Now, can't expect to always have the Pegasus to be flown in together with a tonner right? So it requires some form of innate ability to move about.
As I've mentioned in the previous post. The Marines are pretty happy with the M777A2. Doesn't really have anything to do with our Pegasus.
jjj
Pl tell me where did u get the info that USMC are pretty happy with M777A2?
2.All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period
Suppose u are CO of a battery of few M777A2 and u are inserted in a front
line position by Chinook.After u fire,u already expose your position,right?
Do u expect any counter fire?Yes or No.It depends.
There are two possibility of course:
A.NO--U dunt expect if u are in Afghan etc locations where your enemy dunt have
anti artillery radar and gun.But they can rush to your position by whatever means.
B.Yes----u have to expect counter fire if your enemy is like SAF,right?
(This is jus a example,pl cool down)So,as a CO ,wat will u do
when u expect counter fire is on the way and u dunt have 5 tonner etc
to tow u away?u will agrue how come there are no towing tonner?
I have said u are inserted into a front line position.Do u expect
your HQ can guess where to insert u before hand and arrange 5 tonners
waiting for your guys there?
This is a war or a conflict where no one in War Room can tell
what will happen in next hour!!This is not a war game!!
But if u insist that the 5 tonner are already waiting for your battery
then i dunt think we have a intelligent discussion here.
How about 5 tonners rushing to your gun position?
Well.It depend how far away u are inserted.
So,from the moments u fire to the counter fire reach your position,
i think u have only 10 mins at most to A> dump your gun and run away
OR B> u prey next to your guns!!
Since u need 3 mins to displace M 777A2,the 5 tonner have to reach
your position in 7 mins!!Can they do that?
All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period
mnnn
nnnn
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The danger of a Pure towed gun inserted by Chinnok etc
U will be landed in open land where your position will be exposed
to enemy OP and other sensors,UAV etc But u cant move without
5 tonners.A sniper can give u lot of troubles.
The benefits of a towed gun but SP capabaility
After it is inserted,it can remain in the position or SP to a better position
with cover by trees,terrain or buildings and then fire.
After it fire,it should move to a new position to excape counter fire.
Dunt under estimate your enemy!!U are not in Afhgan!!
Flexsibility and HIGHER SURVIABILITY are the plus.
@@@@@@@@@@@@
APU will add some cost and weight.But the benefits seem
worth the troubles!!
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Why did Australia set a special low threshold for weight of SPH at max 5040 kg?
Artillery Replacement - 105mm & 155mm
LAND 17
Last updated/reviewed: 18 Apr 08I read JDW 03 Oct 2007 (by Julian Kerr) that by setting this requirement,the
only possible contender is M 777!!
Besides,I get this article and i think this is the one i have seen in hard copy:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=63753.0;wap2
Australia turns down surplus Dutch PzH2000 howitzers
Julian Kerr JDW Correspondent
Sydney
The Australian Defence Force ( ADF) has declined a Dutch offer of 18 Kraus-Maffei Wegmann PzH2000 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) to meet a major part of the ADF’s Land 17 artillery replacement programme.
The Royal Netherlands Army has declared 18 of the 57 PzH2000s it has on order as surplus to requirements. The guns, offered to Australia at what is understood to be an advantageous price, have yet to be built........The Land 17 requirement for up to four batteries (35 platforms) of lightweight towed 155 mm howitzers has specified a maximum gun weight of 5,040 kg to allow transportation by a ballistically protected Boeing CH-47 heavy-lift helicopter. This is understood to leave the BAE Systems M777A2 ultra lightweight howitzer, weighing 3,745 kg, as the only contender. The M777A2 features hardware and software upgrades enabling it to fire the XM922 Excalibur extended-range precision unitary munition.
i dunt know if Oz intend to transport the new gun internally or externally.
The payload of CH-47 is about 11,000 kg.Does Oz want to transport
two gun in one sortie internally?Can two new guns transportered externally
in one sortie?
If two new guns can be transported in one sortie,then the low weight
requirement is reasonable.
But this special requirement will vitrually keep all other LWH
out of the tender.This will make Oz leave with one choice!!
@@@@@@@@@@@
In procurement,shall u just base on one factor and leave
u with one choice?If this weight factor is so important?
I dunt know.Pl tell me.
mnnnn
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Erm......i think the best is to try out M777 and Pegasus in a battle if you would want the most fair way
Battle One:
M777 shot at Pegasus, see Pegasus can counter
Battle Two:
Pegasus shot at M777, see M777 can counter
counter means that is it counter-battery ability as well as move to next position
In addition, remember M777 is designed for US, US have a lot of weapon, they dun care a f****** M777 is been damaged, so they could made do with such a make
However, Pegasus is designed for SG, SG cannot lose a Pegasus like USMC did for a M777.
So both of them win in their own limits
OT: Lion, u are really noisy
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http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hercules.aspx
http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/globemaster.aspx---72,500 kg
Payload of C 130 in RAAF is 14,000 kg.good enough to deploy 2 guns
of 6000 kg each plus 1000 kg ammo for each gun!!
LWH are most likely for quick insertion by heli.
Unfotunalely,there is no heli in RAAF !!
@@@@@@
So if oz to deploy proposed new LWH by either C 130 or C 17,
they can afford a little more heavy LWH!!
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/hercules.aspx
http://www.raaf.gov.au/aircraft/globemaster.aspx---72,500 kg
Payload of C 130 in RAAF is 14,000 kg.good enough to deploy 2 guns
of 6000 kg each plus 1000 kg ammo for each gun!!
LWH are most likely for quick insertion by heli.
Unfotunalely,there is no heli in RAAF !!
@@@@@@
So if oz to deploy proposed new LWH by either C 130 or C 17,
they can afford a little more heavy LWH!!
They can buy heli mah.........
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
jjj
Pl tell me where did u get the info that USMC are pretty happy with M777A2?
2.All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period
Suppose u are CO of a battery of few M777A2 and u are inserted in a front
line position by Chinook.After u fire,u already expose your position,right?
Do u expect any counter fire?Yes or No.It depends.
There are two possibility of course:
A.NO--U dunt expect if u are in Afghan etc locations where your enemy dunt have
anti artillery radar and gun.But they can rush to your position by whatever means.
B.Yes----u have to expect counter fire if your enemy is like SAF,right?
(This is jus a example,pl cool down)So,as a CO ,wat will u do
when u expect counter fire is on the way and u dunt have 5 tonner etc
to tow u away?u will agrue how come there are no towing tonner?
I have said u are inserted into a front line position.Do u expect
your HQ can guess where to insert u before hand and arrange 5 tonners
waiting for your guys there?
This is a war or a conflict where no one in War Room can tell
what will happen in next hour!!This is not a war game!!
But if u insist that the 5 tonner are already waiting for your battery
then i dunt think we have a intelligent discussion here.
How about 5 tonners rushing to your gun position?
Well.It depend how far away u are inserted.
So,from the moments u fire to the counter fire reach your position,
i think u have only 10 mins at most to A> dump your gun and run away
OR B> u prey next to your guns!!
Since u need 3 mins to displace M 777A2,the 5 tonner have to reach
your position in 7 mins!!Can they do that?
All pure Towed gun,like M 777A2,inserted in front line, will become a sitting duck in the initial period
mnnn
nnnn
Janes International Defence Review, Volume 41, October 2008. Mentioned in the interview with Col Peter Petronzio, CO 24th MEU. Artillery weapons are not inserted into the frontlines. Usually X km behind frontline. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Janes International Defence Review, Volume 41, October 2008. Mentioned in the interview with Col Peter Petronzio, CO 24th MEU. Artillery weapons are not inserted into the frontlines. Usually X km behind frontline.dude.. i project this is going to end up with him (lionnoisy) postulating his
"nononononoo what if one day, you have a single M777A2 and suddenly u have a MLRS counter battery fire on your position and i had a pegasus. my pegasus would run away" bullshit ala the LCS.
@lionnoisy,to spare you the trouble of your stupidity and the pain of others from seeing it
1) artillery work in batteries
2) there's a difference between a self propelled gun and a self propelled howitzer
3) artillery fire is measured in grid squares on the map
4) artillery is subject to tracking from counter batteries and other counter mechanisms.if you dont know, join dorothy, tin man on to journey to emerald city to find the wizard of oz to grant you some brain.
but then again, with you bashing Oz so much, he might hate you and grant you crap. which you possess in overwhelming abundance.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Janes International Defence Review, Volume 41, October 2008. Mentioned in the interview with Col Peter Petronzio, CO 24th MEU. Artillery weapons are not inserted into the frontlines. Usually X km behind frontline.Whether into or behind front lines,LWH are made for quick deployment
and near front line.Right?So,it is subject to anti--fire.
The main point is M 777 is a sitting duck in a initial period,
before the towing faciliies reach the firing position.
If this is not subject to anti--fire,either it is in Afghan etc or
it is not in a advance position enough to deliver fire.
Like a bad sniper,any artillery fire will attract counter fire.
Dunt count on enemy dunt get artillery radar and artillery.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Dear All,
How about i ask u to use First Generation Hand Phone as heavy as
a brick in 2008 or i ask u use a 286 CPU?
This one not old enough.
But M 777 just tell u like using a 30 years old HP!!
Currently,M777 dunt get any flick rammer.!!
Pl dunt tell me the future.I want NOW>NOW!!
The FH 88 launched in 1988(yes eighty eight) gets auto flick rammer!!
OMG!!Why do the soldiers work like a donkey to push
the rod rammer to push the shell into the barrel,in 2008???
U will tell me becos M 777 dunt get a APU or engine for
setting gun ,flick ramming etc.
Then can u weigh the pro and con and install one.
This is damn stupid just to look a one side of the coin.
In decision making,u need to weigh all the pro and con.
See how the 20 years old Singapore FH 88 works----
A flick rammer is used with power derived from an independent power pack.The hydropneumatic recoil mechanism is of the independent-type single-recoil system.
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Armour-and-Artillery/Singapore-Technologies-Kinetics-155-mm-FH-88-gun-howitzer-Singapore.html
u need machine help to deliver substain and consistant fire.
Can u deliver 2 rounds per mins for 30 mins,by 2 men rod ramming?
Pegasus can,becos it gets a engine APU.
without flick rammer,it seem u have to double clutch Land Rover
again!!
jjjj
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Whether into or behind front lines,LWH are made for quick deployment
and near front line.Right?So,it is subject to anti--fire.
The main point is M 777 is a sitting duck in a initial period,
before the towing faciliies reach the firing position.
If this is not subject to anti--fire,either it is in Afghan etc or
it is not in a advance position enough to deliver fire.
Like a bad sniper,any artillery fire will attract counter fire.
Dunt count on enemy dunt get artillery radar and artillery.
LOL moron lion, tell me, how do counter-battery artillery fire and radar detect the M777 before m777 fire ?
in case you realize, what is the range of arty ? you mean USMC or US army commanders are retarded to enough to site an artillery battery within range of counter battery fire ?
*yawn* in case you havent realized, pegasus APU is more for autoloading rather than moving the pegasus around.
use a brain will you ? pegasus APU has a speed of 12km/H. ok, lets say pegasus fire on enemy position, shell takes 15 mins to reach the enemy position. enemy counter battery radar tracks the shell, pinpoints the pegasus firing position.
ASSUMING no time is needed to pack the pegasus and assuming that the terrain is complete flat ground and the top speed of 12km/h is achieved (which isnt possible) and assuming that the enemy counter battery fire takes 20 mins to fire and for the shells to hit the position
u realize that your pegasus has only moved 4km ? you realize that if the enemy has a MLRS fire battery dedicated to counter battery fire that would be the end of the entire pegasus artillery battery ? you realize even a regular artillery battery would be able to obliterate that grid square ?
you realize that studying map terrain and extrapolating from the approximate fire position, the enemy is able to destroy , block or cut off the pegasus regiment from any evacuation point or resup point ?
you realize you just SELF-PWNED ?
and yes, i think we should all take a 286 or 1st gen mobile phone and throw it at your head. you arent using it moron. you deserve it for talking crap like this .
and please answer this qn :
without flick rammer,it seem u have to double clutch Land Rover
again!!
wtf is a double clutch landrover ?
wtf is a queene ?
wtf u still dont know the difference between a BVS10 viking and the BVS10 MKII viking and the Bronco ?
wtf are you ?
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so M 777 can be heli transportable,but without flick rammer!!
note the ramming rod in the video.
So,what was the improvement in ramming the shell?
From Civil War till 2008,Yankees still ramming the shell in the howitzer!!
Why Why Why????
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http://www.coulthart.com/gcoulthart.html
The M 777 guys still have to set up and displace the gun by brutal force,
exactly like their great /grand/ fathers in WW2/Korean /Vietnam/Gulf/Iraq
/Afhgan Wars!!!
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In Vietnam War,Armoured SPH is equipped with power for flick rammer.
So,after 40 years,it is not too much to ask a basically towed
howitzer also equipped with power for flick ramming,setting up gun,
traversing and adjusting elevation of the barrel!!