Airshow China 2008
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Originally posted by 38�Ž:
I’d rather believe commonsense than some other enthusiast’s website. As I said, EF2000 features larger delta wing, smaller canard and most import of all, 2 powerplants instead of J10’s 1, it only can have 10000ibs/4500kg max internal fuel, how come J10 matches that?
If I were the PLAAF procurer, why I need a light fighter having so much internal fuel, yet every time the same fighter still carrying at least 1 external fuel tank? Why I need a long haul light fighter, when I have almost double the J10’s number of heavy Su27/30 to accomplish the same mission?
Taking a look at J10’s sister fighter, the FC-1/JF-17 is produced in the same factory but only for export, the FC-1/JF-17’s official internal fuel numer is 2300kgs/5110ibs, the J-10 is only slightly larger than FC-1/JF17, but holding almost twice the internal fuel at 4050/4500 kgs? No way.
FC-1 with J-10
Well, what do You think the J-10's internal fuel capacity is?
You do have a point that the J-10 is a single engine aircraft, should theoretically have less fuel, when compared against the Typhoon which has 2.
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F-16’s internal fuel max is 3100kg, the empty weight of F16 is 8300kg
Fuel to weight ratio is 3150/(3150 + 8300)=0.275
Yankee’s Airforce is tasked to be attacking orientated, which requests the fuel to weight ratio the higher the better. As a matter of fact, American made fighter’s such ratio indeed the best among others. I doubt Chinese can make J10’s such figure better than what Yanks got. Let use the same ratio, assuming J-10’s empty weight is 8500kg, if the ratio is 0.275 at same level of F16, then 3230/(3230 +8500)=0.275, so the J-10’s internal fuel is around 3250kg(7220ibs)
The range: 3-3.5 tons depending on the ratio and empty weight of J10
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Originally posted by 38�Ž:
F-16’s internal fuel max is 3100kg, the empty weight of F16 is 8300kg
Fuel to weight ratio is 3150/(3150 + 8300)=0.275
Yankee’s Airforce is tasked to be attacking orientated, which requests the fuel to weight ratio the higher the better. As a matter of fact, American made fighter’s such ratio indeed the best among others. I doubt Chinese can make J10’s such figure better than what Yanks got. Let use the same ratio, assuming J-10’s empty weight is 8500kg, if the ratio is 0.275 at same level of F16, then 3230/(3230 +8500)=0.275, so the J-10’s internal fuel is around 3250kg(7220ibs)
The range: 3-3.5 tons depending on the ratio and empty weight of J10
Well you might be right on that. From what I hear, the J-10 does have shorter legs than the F-16, and considering it has a hungrier engine...
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I can see China airpower and seapower are rising.
Beside new fighters, there are also JH-7 supersonic bomber and H-8 bombers are on the way.
The China aircraft carriers are building.
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http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/nz/zhhz7/index.shtml
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2008-11-02/1350527919.html
list of exhibitors
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Pictures from today
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women of airshow china
http://www.alert5.com/gallery/zhuhai08-women -
The airshow is over but the debate continues, one of the Russian aerospace journalist have such observation which really stirred hot debate in many forums:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/11/dispatch-from-zhuhai-chinas-j1.html
...Now everyone I trust says the Chinese pulled it off, and the J-10 has proven a tremendously successful program.
I watched how the J-10 flew over Zhuhai, in 30 degree Celsius temperatures and high humidity.
The pilot did none of the show tricks like post-stall or tail slide or pitch-back, but turns were very tight, initial rate of turn very high. It was clear there is a lot of potential in this airplane to achieve the same maneuvers more quickly.
The pilot rarely used afterburner and the degrees of canard deflection were small. Still, the airplane flew very well. I reckon it will beat F-16C or MiG-29/SMT easily.
To accomplish the comments, here are some videos of J-10 performing in the Airshow.
Yes, it did climbs like a rocket :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB90zVT7AOs
http://www.alert5.com/2008/11/j-10-taxi-and-take-off-at-zhuhai.html
Courtesy of Alert5 for the last footage.
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Hmm, the pilot took about 20 secs to complete a full 360 combat turn without afterburner. I think it should be able to sustain a higher than F-16 turn rate in full AB at 5000ft.
A lot can't be said without the pilot lighting up.
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i dont trust anything made in china. milk can put melamine. chinese made toys cant last for more than 2 months.
if i were to fly a chinese plane in times of a war, i would hug my girlfriend goodbye. who knows that the plane stalls in the middle of a flight due to engine failure because they use inferior materials? and better still, the ejection system is only for show and wont work?
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Stalling in flight its fine.... If cannot restart just try to glide it back down to the nearest airbase.
Unless we're feet wet...
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pinky you sure or not? i
-Edited by Shotgun ( Personal Attack )
**Please leave personal agendas out of the discussion**
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Originally posted by PtePinkY:
i dont trust anything made in china. milk can put melamine. chinese made toys cant last for more than 2 months.
if i were to fly a chinese plane in times of a war, i would hug my girlfriend goodbye. who knows that the plane stalls in the middle of a flight due to engine failure because they use inferior materials? and better still, the ejection system is only for show and wont work?
what kind of stall. engine stall or aerodynamic stall.
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Originally posted by wonderamazement:
what kind of stall. engine stall or aerodynamic stall.
I think he means engine stall lar... which is quite rare in modern jets.
Aerodynamic stall is generally recoverable and quite fun to mess around with. Exception of flat-spins that is. If I recall correctly, the F-16s flat-spin is irrecoverable. But it takes a lot of effort to get there.
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erm... not sure eh. haha
Am more of a person to guns and gears. But my piece would be that i wont trust a plane given a countrys reputation like this.
As in, who would put his/her life on a jet that we are having doubts if its a flying coffin or a killing machine to the enemies.
You sure dont wanna be engaged in a dog fight when your plane is not tzai right?
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Dogfight theorists have understood two advantages and disadvantages.
1. Power to weight ratio.
2. Manueverability / turning capability.
To engage an enemy aircraft who are clearly superior in both aspects is suicidal. A single aspect advantage is do-able but not advised as well.
If I'm a pilot, I have to make do with whatever aircraft is given to me, coffin or not. Tactical decisions are however, mine to make. =D
