duplicate post
Originally posted by Bionic Animals:This is like a game of showhand. Show them the 'ACES', but keep the last card hidden. Keep then guessing how many units we have and where they are located.
lol dude. u completely missed my point.
what i m saying is, to keep them guessing isnt going to work permanently. Secrets arent going to remain secrets forever. there are always conventional means to obtain the information (spies and tracking weapon sales) and military means, such as spy satellites, electronic emissions and logistics trails.
improvement in satellite resolution (today's commercial picture satellites have resolutions that used to be military grade ) newer technologies (SAR -synthetic aperture radar : allows u to build a picture quality images of whats going on the ground like X rays on the human body) may make hiding them quite pointless.
what happens if they discover that its a bluff ?what i m suggesting is that it might be better to have the real thing, accept higher tensions than risk someone calling your bluff.
Originally posted by tankee1981:If Malaysia is to acquire the Iskander E missile it should be mainly for deterance against the technologically superior SAF.
They are unable to match our technological advances in conventional warfare due to severe mismanagement and lack of funding thus may seek strategic weapons(applies in our case as we are such a tiny country that even a SRBM is a strategic threat to us). They can be armed with chemical warheads which can easily be produced by any factory producing agricultural pesticides.
It is meant to up the stakes, to keep the balance.
If Malaysia were to really to acquire and put to operational ready status, Singapore is going to have problems.
Iskander E is a solid booster missile, with minimal maintenance required. I assume the warhead guidance electronics would require regular attention. Overall lower than a couple squadrons of Flankers.
This would mean MAF would have really hard teeth that is not tempered by their iffy maintenance. This coupled with the fact that SAF is unlikely to do a first strike, this means more bad news.
One of the possible way to counter this is ABM. Something that several posters have pointed out.
1. S-300 is not on the table. Yeah right the Russians is going to show off their underwear to us.
2. Arrow. This is a static system, so a big no no.
3. Patriot. Serious engagement issues on top of way too many strings attached.
4. Standard series - SAF needs to buy a new radar system.
5. ?
This will get to another level of, call it whatever you want, the arms race by ASEAN countries. No I don't think anyone wants to go down that road, Singapore included.
Originally posted by touchstone_2000:If Malaysia were to really to acquire and put to operational ready status, Singapore is going to have problems.
Iskander E is a solid booster missile, with minimal maintenance required. I assume the warhead guidance electronics would require regular attention. Overall lower than a couple squadrons of Flankers.
This would mean MAF would have really hard teeth that is not tempered by their iffy maintenance. This coupled with the fact that SAF is unlikely to do a first strike, this means more bad news.
One of the possible way to counter this is ABM. Something that several posters have pointed out.
1. S-300 is not on the table. Yeah right the Russians is going to show off their underwear to us.
2. Arrow. This is a static system, so a big no no.
3. Patriot. Serious engagement issues on top of way too many strings attached.
4. Standard series - SAF needs to buy a new radar system.
5. ?
This will get to another level of, call it whatever you want, the arms race by ASEAN countries. No I don't think anyone wants to go down that road, Singapore included.
like someone mentioned before, an interest dosent equate into buying it. dont need to lose sleep or worry about it all night long.
1) havent you heard the famous adage ? the russians will sell their mothers for the right price. we just might be able to get S300s if the right amount of funds are avaliable in the hands of the right people. might be able to get it on the quiet too.
2) a static BMD system might be a trade-off in terms of tactical liability but we might get more than that if we get the arrow2. like with most of our military deals, it might include a technology transfer or special customization from our Mexican friends. it might even be custom-made into a mobile system for us. Might have more spinoffs for us too.
3) Patriot ? lets see who has it in the region. SK has some, TW just bought some (its on display outside the presidential palace in taipei, can see it if you take a cab and drive past the area), Japan has some.
that leaves pretty much Thailand and US(singapore) who fall into the threat radius of XX country's ballistic missiles (interpret XX howsoever you like, there's more than 1 nation with ballistic missiles in theater).
thailand cant get it because they signed the ABM proliferation treaty. that leaves us as the only major US ally within a threat ring posed by ballistic missiles in the region (unless you wanna count australia too but that might be technically impractical. most aussie cities are along the southern coast)
us getting it may not be that much of a financial constraint, but rather a regionalized political constraint (asean non-amity agreement: i.e we wont fight with each other)
4) standard system ? doubt it. we probably made the commitment to another family of SAM missiles when we bought the Formidable.
like tankie mentioned. it really has to do with status quo. if we do get something like that, might upset someone else's sensibilities and percieved sense of insecurity. thats the big danger.
Aster 30s will do the trick. Perhaps a greater air defence role for our RSN. It runs both ways, reduces the political "tension" as it is dual use as fleet air defence rather than seen as an offensive weapon.
Originally posted by LazerLordz:Aster 30s will do the trick. Perhaps a greater air defence role for our RSN. It runs both ways, reduces the political "tension" as it is dual use as fleet air defence rather than seen as an offensive weapon.
I couldn't agree more. Since Singapore is a tiny island, having a highly mobile and low observable 'launcher' which is the stealth frigate, coupled with a long ranged missile like the Aster 30...we will have a highly effective air defence umbrella.
Should we need to extend our air defence cover we can simply sail our 6 frigates to where ever we need them and place them at specific coordinates where there is an over-lap of air cover from each individual vessel to create a large mobile air defence umbrella.
Land-based launchers may be mobile but in tiny Singapore there isn't much place to move around while at sea it is very different.
I wonder how stealth is our Frigate acoustically....
Then again, passive sonar ain't worth much in the waters around Singapore, so I heard.
I believe they r silent enough for a surface ship, all equipments r mounted on shock mounts & every effort 2 reduce their noise sig. r being done
Originally posted by Shotgun:I wonder how stealth is our Frigate acoustically....
Then again, passive sonar ain't worth much in the waters around Singapore, so I heard.
Yes, having so much commercial shipping in such a narrow and shallow Straits of Singapore will be a very noisy underwater environment.
Iskander is not an ordinary missile. It doesn't follow the standard ballistic flight path (it actually has evading algorithms and such), and while it is possible to intercept it, you have to be on the constant look out for it. If the enemy is smart, they would use this weapon in conjuction with SEAD missiles.
Solution 1 is to have either S-300PMU-2 system, or the Patriot system. Solution 2 is to try a laser defence system but that is years away.
The Russians are known to have sold their S-300PMU-2 systems to NATO people like Turkey. In any case, the US has more or less gotten hold of a copy, quite likely through Ukraine.
I have doubt that Malaysia will buy such a big item. So do not panic!