Iskander-E for Malaysia and Singapore?
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Rosoboronexport said on Wednesday that several countries have shown interest in Russia's Iskander-E short-range ballistic missile system.
"Syria, the UAE, Malaysia, India and some other countries have shown an interest in the missile system," said Rosoboronexport official Nikolai Dimidyuk.
Russia will also seek to export the Iskander-E to Algeria, Kuwait, Singapore, Vietnam, and South Korea, he added.http://www.alert5.com/2008/10/strong-demand-for-iskander-e-missile.html
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I still remembered an old use report about Singapore interested in Scud missiles and Patriots SAM. Thereafter got everyone running around reallying running around.
DSTA had to issue a statement saying interest does not equate buying. Hilarious
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the malaysians'd show interest in everything and everything their generals see and touch at defence exhibitions .....
I still remember last time they were envisioning a 300 helicopter force for their rapid deployment force ......
hell ..... you read ADJ you'd know ....... we usually never breathe a word before we buy something .... they can never keep their mouth shut before actually buying anything at all ...
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Yeah, I think our last Spyder purchase was a pretty good example of that. Hardly anything was said when we evaluating them.
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Malaysia might have to sell off half their country just to pay for this.
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Yeah, I think our last Spyder purchase was a pretty good example of that. Hardly anything was said when we evaluating them.
Which version of SPYDER did SG purchase ?
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I'd tell you but I've to kill you....
There's only two flavors if I recall correctly.
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Then I suppose we have both flavors.
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they say one of the missile types' not for export sale .... so i guess it'd have to be the other ? ....
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I thought both Derby and Python 5 are for sales....
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python 4 is for sale ....
but python 5's apparently too advanced for country x to export, even to allies ......
if we got both, then that'd make us the first ? ........
and if we got it as part of a ground based system .... who'd bet we don't have it for the vipers ? ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
python 4 is for sale ....
but python 5's apparently too advanced for country x to export, even to allies ......
if we got both, then that'd make us the first ? ........
and if we got it as part of a ground based system .... who'd bet we don't have it for the vipers ? ....
Who told u we havent got it yet?
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Everything's for sale. Its only how much you have to pay for it - but you may not also not get what you paid for.
I believe the Israelis, South Africans and Russians will sell anything for a price. Maybe SG too.
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"We are inside the range rings of more and more countries that have missiles of various kinds, so we have to take that into account when we design our future air defence systems -- our radars, our missiles, our air defence fighters,"
"We don't expect that they will be a direct threat to us. But the fact of the matter is that we are now within their range rings when, prior to that, we were not," he said without naming any countries.
"So this is something which, if we're prudent, we will take into account."
Teo Chee Hean said in an interview with the Straits Times.http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Singapore_To_Improve_Defences_Against_Ballistic_Missiles_999.html
There were indeed news of Singapore interested in Russian missiles in the past, i have personal memory of this. But those were the days before we have purchase the MLRS from the US.
But one thing is for sure, we are definitely looking into missile defence as shown in the article back in 2006.
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hmm, tankie.
what do you think ? any chance of us getting the green pine - arrow 2 system from our mexican friends ? that would really be a good piece of kit. we can probably shoot down anything before it even leaves its airbase. but it'd be highly contraversial. like the greece macedonia- turkey struggle over the s-300 which ended in turkey getting free s-300. not a very neighbourly thing to do anyway.
or better still. encourage the americans to donate to us a X-band radar here as well. that'd really be something.
but regarding radar coverage and missile threat rings and detection rings. we'd probably be on the better side of detecting and sensing the missiel right ? after all we have pretty good civillian kits at changi. we could detect the thai seaplane that strayed off course.
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I doubt air-traffic radar will be effective against ballistic missiles that travel in less predictable flight paths.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
hmm, tankie.
what do you think ? any chance of us getting the green pine - arrow 2 system from our mexican friends ? that would really be a good piece of kit. we can probably shoot down anything before it even leaves its airbase. but it'd be highly contraversial. like the greece macedonia- turkey struggle over the s-300 which ended in turkey getting free s-300. not a very neighbourly thing to do anyway.
or better still. encourage the americans to donate to us a X-band radar here as well. that'd really be something.
but regarding radar coverage and missile threat rings and detection rings. we'd probably be on the better side of detecting and sensing the missiel right ? after all we have pretty good civillian kits at changi. we could detect the thai seaplane that strayed off course.
Personally i think the S-300 (or the more advanced S-400) will be a good choice despite them being Russian. Major advantage is that these are relatively cheap and good. At least good enough to get the West concerned and worked up when Iran is rumoured to purchase the S-300. It is a mobile system which enable us to have the ability to move the SAM umbrella forward together with our armoured thrust. Being mobile also allow the battery to hide from air and missile strikes.
Patroits missiles are combat tested but are not mobile and very expensive.
The Arrow 2 is a good system but it should be more pricey than the S-300. Being cheaper allow us to buy more missiles to prepare for a multiple ballistic missile attack.
Enough of the systems lets touch on the feasibility of getting them. Even though TCH have publicly announced our interest and intention to get such systems, it will still be quite controversial.
Singapore have never wanted to appear to be starting an arms race. So even if we have introduced a new capability into our region, we will still want to keep it under wraps until a neighbour got it. A good example will be the Tempest, even now when it is close to retirement it's existence is still not being acknowledged
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This report comes with a photo of the Iskander E Missile on its carrier, and details of its operational data.
Russia Eyes New Customers For Iskander E Missile
The Iskander-E is relatively small and light, with a launch weight of 3,800 kilograms (8,360 pounds), RIA Novosti said. That means it can be moved on a transporter erector launcher vehicle that can hold two of them, greatly increasing survivability from pre-emptive air attack and doubling the launch system's firepower.
by Martin Sieff
Washington (UPI) Oct 3, 2008
A surprising number of countries, including some with warm ties to the United States, are interested in buying Russia's short-range but formidable Iskander-E ballistic missile.
A senior executive of Rosoboronexport, the coordinating Russian arms exporting agency, stated Wednesday that Kuwait, South Korea and the United Arab Emirates -- all traditional U.S. allies -- were interested in buying the Iskander, RIA Novosti reported Thursday.
"Syria, the UAE, Malaysia, India and some other countries have shown an interest in the missile system," said Rosoboronexport official Nikolai Dimidyuk. Russia also will seek to export the Iskander-E to Algeria, Kuwait, Singapore, Vietnam and South Korea, he added.
The United States currently manufactures and exports nothing like the Iskander-E -- NATO designation SS-26 Stone. RIA Novosti described the weapons system as "a tactical surface-to-surface missile complex designed to deliver high-precision strikes at a variety of ground targets at a range of up to 280 kilometers (170 miles)." The Iskander-E carries only a single warhead with a payload of up to 880 pounds, staying within the parameters determined by the Missile Technology Control Regime.
The Iskander-E is relatively small and light, with a launch weight of 3,800 kilograms (8,360 pounds), RIA Novosti said. That means it can be moved on a transporter erector launcher -- TEL -- vehicle that can hold two of them, greatly increasing survivability from pre-emptive air attack and doubling the launch system's firepower.
The report also noted that the Iskander-E is equipped with "stealth" technology and it has the capacity for variable flight trajectory, making it much more difficult for ballistic missile defense to shoot it down.
Because the missiles are solid-fueled, they can be launched extremely quickly, again reducing to virtually zero the chances of knocking them out before launch with a pre-emptive airstrike. RIA Novosti said the second missile on a TEL could be fired within a minute of the first one being launched.
The missiles are also exceptionally accurate with a circular-error probability -- CEP -- of only 30 meters (around 100 feet).
RIA Novosti said a single Iskander battery includes a number of TELs, loaders and a command vehicle. "Target acquisition is supported by a mobile data-processing center," it said.
Dimidyuk said the Russian armed forces were already creating a combat brigade of Iskander-M SRBM -- short-range ballistic missile -- systems that would have "longer ranges and heavier payloads than the export -- Iskander-E -- version."
"The system has been adopted in service with Russia's armed forces, and, as far as I know, a brigade (of Iskander systems) is being formed," Dimidyuk said.
Russia already has threatened to deploy the Iskander in its Kaliningrad region on the Baltic Sea.
RIA Novosti cited three-star Col. Gen. Viktor Yesin, a former commander of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces, as telling the Moscow newspaper Nezavisimaya Gazeta in July that the Kremlin could rapidly move its Iskander-M missiles to Kaliningrad or the former Soviet republic of Belarus, a loyal Russian ally, to put them within range of hitting the new U.S. BMD base being built in Poland.
The Iskander is the ideal weapon to use in any pre-emptive strike to knock out the kind of high-tech ballistic missile defense system, such as the U.S. Army's Patriot and the Israeli Arrow, that is designed to be effective against intermediate-range ballistic missiles -- IRBMs -- or shorter-range weapons. That makes them a deadly threat to the new BMD base to hold 10 Ground-based Mid-course Interceptors -- GBIs -- that the United States is building in Poland to defend Western Europe and the Eastern Seaboard of the United States from the threat of any future Iranian intercontinental ballistic missile --ICBM -- that could carry nuclear warheads.
The Iskanders therefore would pose a formidable threat to the U.S. GBIs in Poland, and if Russia sells them to Syria, they could knock out Israel's most advanced early warning radar facilities in a pre-emptive strike, leaving the country defenseless against nuclear-capable Iranian IRBMs and cruise missiles.
If Russia sold Syria enough Iskander-Es, they also would pose a threat, combined with Hezbollah's more than 10,000 missiles, mainly on multiple-launch rocket systems -- MLRS -- of disrupting mobilization procedures of the Israeli army in any future war with Syria on the Golan Heights.
The beauty of the Iskander concept is that it employs a venerable, highly reliable, mature technology, cost-effectively allowing it to knock out the vastly more expensive BMD systems that it targets.
In this respect, it parallels the effectiveness of the U.S. Army Air Force's North American P-51 Mustang piston engine combat fighters in World War II that shot down hundreds of technically vastly superior, but far less numerous and far less cost-effective German Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighters.
The Iskander therefore serves notice that even in the cutting-edge, super-high-tech world of ballistic missile defense, there is an important role for older, simpler, far cheaper technologies to play "spoiler" roles that can destroy or disrupt the much more ambitious -- and expensive -- defense systems that nations put their trust in.
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If Malaysia was to acquire such a weapon system, it would serve to strengthen any adversary's case for a pre-emptive attack in the event of hostilities. Does a SRBM in any way serve to "defend" or does it hope to "deter?" If the case for a first strike against an SRBM equipped country is stronger, does it serve any purpose at all?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
If Malaysia was to acquire such a weapon system, it would serve to strengthen any adversary's case for a pre-emptive attack in the event of hostilities. Does a SRBM in any way serve to "defend" or does it hope to "deter?" If the case for a first strike against an SRBM equipped country is stronger, does it serve any purpose at all?
If Malaysia is to acquire the Iskander E missile it should be mainly for deterance against the technologically superior SAF.
They are unable to match our technological advances in conventional warfare due to severe mismanagement and lack of funding thus may seek strategic weapons(applies in our case as we are such a tiny country that even a SRBM is a strategic threat to us). They can be armed with chemical warheads which can easily be produced by any factory producing agricultural pesticides.
It is meant to up the stakes, to keep the balance.
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Originally posted by tankee1981:
Enough of the systems lets touch on the feasibility of getting them. Even though TCH have publicly announced our interest and intention to get such systems, it will still be quite controversial.
Singapore have never wanted to appear to be starting an arms race. So even if we have introduced a new capability into our region, we will still want to keep it under wraps until a neighbour got it. A good example will be the Tempest, even now when it is close to retirement it's existence is still not being acknowledged
agreed.
where can we put them ? we dont have space. the formidable class is to work around this limitation anyway according to speculation.
i was thinking tekong might be a good place to base any missile shield system. away from public view, lots of land reclaimation going on and best of all, low likelihood of collateral damage if anything goes off.
in this day and age, is the old policy of not rocking the boat too much still relevant ? its always better to remind the joker on the other side of what you have ? a Ace in the deck may have more deterrent value than a Ace thats hidden. someone might always ride the lightning and miscalculate by betting against a hidden Ace.
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Originally posted by tankee1981:
If Malaysia is to acquire the Iskander E missile it should be mainly for deterance against the technologically superior SAF.
They are unable to match our technological advances in conventional warfare due to severe mismanagement and lack of funding thus may seek strategic weapons(applies in our case as we are such a tiny country that even a SRBM is a strategic threat to us). They can be armed with chemical warheads which can easily be produced by any factory producing agricultural pesticides.
It is meant to up the stakes, to keep the balance.
However, possessing SRBMs would only entice an adversary (not necessarily Singapore *ahem*) to launch pre-emptive attacks in order to neutralize either the SRBMs or the command nodes that allow the SRBMs to launch.
So how does that "deter"?
I think SRBMs are an unnecessary trouble to our region.
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The key sentence is, 'It is meant to up the stakes, to keep the balance'.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
However, possessing SRBMs would only entice an adversary (not necessarily Singapore *ahem*) to launch pre-emptive attacks in order to neutralize either the SRBMs or the command nodes that allow the SRBMs to launch.
So how does that "deter"?
I think SRBMs are an unnecessary trouble to our region.
It is unnecessary trouble. However, if more than one SEA nation has had chatter regarding BMD, then something must be important enough to force policymakers to change their minds.
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agreed.
where can we put them ? we dont have space. the formidable class is to work around this limitation anyway according to speculation.
i was thinking tekong might be a good place to base any missile shield system. away from public view, lots of land reclaimation going on and best of all, low likelihood of collateral damage if anything goes off.
in this day and age, is the old policy of not rocking the boat too much still relevant ? its always better to remind the joker on the other side of what you have ? a Ace in the deck may have more deterrent value than a Ace thats hidden. someone might always ride the lightning and miscalculate by betting against a hidden Ace.
This is like a game of showhand. Show them the 'ACES', but keep the last card hidden. Keep then guessing how many units we have and where they are located.