Crapping thread for the crappers and the crap.
-
Eh lionnoisy don't forget.
You also haven't answered to the M777 thread about the M777 not being heliportable when it was simply not true.
LOL.
-
Originally posted by lionnoisy:below--If u can find any official and reliable info that any of the Collins sub
has been declared FOC,i will stop posting in this forum for 3 weeks?
,,,,
OMG... lionnoisy has issued a challenge !
anybody up for that ?
FOC collins sub ? wth is that ? must be lionnoisy making pigs fly. but waitaminit. there is airpork anyway.
-
Bros,set the right mind set before u do anythings!!
Read how a Australian (i think he works in Congress)anti--Australia.
He wrote in 2001 to predict the high risks of Wedgetail.
'Orphan Systems'
Getting in Early: Lessons of the Collins Submarine Program for Improved Oversight of Defence Procurement
Derek Woolner
Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Group
18 September 2001http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2001-02/02RP03.htm
pl note quote not in sequence.pi refer to the full report
Identifying High Risk Programs-the Example of the AEW&C Program
Cost Increases in the AEW&C Project
Risk Factors in the AEW&C ProgramIdentifying High Risk Programs-the Example of the AEW&C Program
Indeed, an examination of the AEW&C program shows that it carries a high level of risk. A characteristic of the development of uniquely Australian systems, displayed by the Collins, is that their estimated cost rises steeply between the various developmental stages of the project. There are significant increases between the approval for early conceptual studies and the subsequent issue by the project Office of its preferred specifications, against which equipment providers are invited to bid. There are further increases between approval by government of the preferred supplier and the signing of a contract. As the program cost increases, the date for in-service delivery recedes.
Cost Increases in the AEW&C Project
These stages can be seen clearly in the AEW&C aircraft program. When project definition studies commenced in 1994, the estimated cost was $1 billion, with an in-service date of 2000.(163) Five years later, when Boeing had been selected to supply the AEW&C force, the estimated cost had risen to $2 billion to supply seven aircraft, the first in 2004-05.(164) In mid-2000 the project was frozen pending the completion of the defence white paper because of Cabinet's concern about the impact of its rising costs on an over-pressured defence budget. By this time contract negotiations had pushed the total program cost to $3.4 million.(165) The program was approved in the white paper but for a current approved cost of $3.11 billion it will supply only four aircraft from 2006 onwards but which will not be operational until 2008.
Obviously, the decline in the exchange rate between the A$ and US$ has contributed something to this increase in cost. However, during the period from mid-1994 to December 2000, the A$ has lost just under 19 per cent against the US$,(166) clearly less than the increased cost of the AEW&C project. Furthermore, the variability of exchange rates against the US$ has significance which goes beyond the issue of costs.
Risk Factors in the AEW&C Program
The AEW&C program is open to the risks of other struggling defence acquisition programs. Four million lines of software code unique to Australia will have to be written for its electronic systems. Australia has no domestic operational experience to assist the development program and the user organisation, No 2 Squadron, is being created within the Project Office. The AEW&C is currently an orphan system. Australia was the first and remains the only customer for the Boeing design. The hope was that it offered sufficient advances to be purchased by other nations, thus spreading development costs and creating a market big enough to justify Boeing's continued support of the system into the future.
At one stage Turkey was to be a customer but a combination of severe currency devaluation and contract disputes are likely to prevent an order for some time.(167) Indeed, it is a problem that the Boeing aircraft is aimed at countries needing a cheaper alternative to the more complex early warning aircraft. Unfortunately, many of these are also amongst those countries whose currencies are more likely to devalue against the American dollar, making the system less affordable.
Although over countries (South Korea has been mentioned) will probably buy some of the aircraft, it is not yet established that the numbers sold will be sufficient for Boeing to afford an ongoing program of system development. Managing the AEW&C program to overcome high risk factors and avoid their financial implications is likely to remain important for the future viability of the Defence Capability Plan.
''Only One Amongst Many: Ongoing Problems in Defence Procurement
Yet, in reality, the Collins submarine program is not amongst the worst managed by Defence, in terms of either additional costs or time overrun. At present there are 15 Defence acquisition programs which have exceeded their approved cost by a combined total of $568 million...
Even by the worst interpretation of performance, the Collins program would rank twelfth amongst these. Many of the programs are characterised by changes to overseas systems to meet specifications developed by the Australian Defence Force (ADF) for peculiarly Australian requirements. These systems are unique to Australia and typically have proven difficult both to develop and maintain. Within Defence they have attracted the nickname 'orphan systems'.
The desire of the ADF to acquire orphan systems is not a relic of past decades. It has been shown in the ANZAC class frigate helicopter program, for which the platform was selected in 1997 and for which the avionics system is two years late. It is a danger which must be managed in the Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) program, the contract for which was signed in December 2000, and for which four million lines of unique software are needed. It is also a risk inherent in the Government's new approach to the Collins class combat system.
Neither is it a problem whose effects are confined to the programs themselves. Were, for arguments sake, the AEW&C program to require additional funding to the same extent as the Collins program, it would cost an extra $600 million. Such unprogrammed expenditure would be sufficient to jeopardise the orderly development of the ADF as planned in Defence 2000, the defence white paper.
Poor Management and the 'Orphan Systems' Syndrome
On this scale then, the consequences of poor financial management of defence projects must be a concern. At their root, many of them suffer from the same problems as the submarine program. In common with the Collins submarines these struggling projects exhibit two critical characteristics. They have all incorporated significant changes to what appears to be reasonably suitable military technology, to specifications which Defence claimed were necessary to meet peculiarly Australian requirements. Typically, these changes result in uniquely Australian systems which prove difficult to develop and maintain. Most commonly this syndrome, which again is typical of the Collins submarine program, affects electronic systems. In Defence such programs are known as 'orphan systems' since they have no close equivalents in the world.
Neither is the Collins program a relic of a previous age when defence project management was less sophisticated. Defence procurement programs of a much more recent vintage than the submarines are in equal or more difficulty.
Dunt be the head of the quene!!
Dunt be a gunine pig!!
Thats why SG went for old F 15!!F 22 or JSF.Thanks.
I see how u fly first,mates!!
nnn,,,,
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SomehowI find it damn funny that lionnoisy continued in Lionnoisy's thread
-
Actually I'd like to see him issue a challange on STK being the only maker of ABM as well as the M777 not being heliportable.
LOL,
He very quiet in those threads leh, after making so much noise.
In any case he won't keep to his word even if he fails the challenge one, we know him too well liao. He'll just make some weak excuse or simply keep quiet and carry on posting.
Hey lionnoisy, how come you don't dare to post challenge on if FN2000 and Tavor can use ABM?
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Bros,set the right mind set before u do anythings!!
like blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahvblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblah
Derek Woolner
Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Group
18 September 2001blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
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blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
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blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
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blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblah
Nope, sorry lionnoisy...
Still dun understand what you are trying to say...
All we got was "bro set the right minds..." and the rest was all lost on us...
Can you translate your post into proper english?
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Dunt be the head of the quene!!
What is a quene?
Is it some kind of animal?
Is this a quene?
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Oh wait, when we type "quene" in google search this is what we get:
Sorry lionnoisy, still don't see what link this has with your post.
-
-
lionnoisy still continuing with his Australia bashing.
Listen lionnoisy, you should make an effort to improve your English, perhaps maybe the Australian government will consider your application for immigration again.
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hahahha ..
today lionnoisy had a field day posting and the rest of us had a field day pwning / laughing at him.
i declare today the PWN LIONNOISY DAY of the month !
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omg!!!
you guys actually read his post!!!
seriously, you don't need to read his post to have an idea what he is getting at.
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i have this conspiracy theory about lionnoisy.
ask yourself which dude will call himself a lion and noisy. post repeated nonsense, enjoy getting pwned and humiliated ?
i understand a sort of S&M streak but to do that to the borders of idiocity and becoming a public laughing stock.absolutely no one takes him seriouslly.
hmm, seems suspicious. i wonder what's his real agenda.
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hey guys,the best and quickest way to kill this Military Nuts
forum is by posting irrelevant, long and and funny posts.
If u want show me the bad sides of SG,pl open other thread.
Pl dunt taint any other threats.
Do as u like.But the traffic to this web site and this forum will
drop .....
I dunt know how to write the unexpected in Oz military.
so i copy and paste .
Theô€ˆ± Commanderô€ˆ± ofô€ˆ±Navy’sô€ˆ± Surfaceô€ˆ± Combatantô€ˆ± Forceô€ˆ± Elementô€ˆ± Groupô€ˆ±
advised􀈱the􀈱ANAO􀈱in􀈱September􀈱2007􀈱that:http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/2007-08_Audit_Report_11.pdf
Performance􀈱of􀈱the􀈱C􀈬PEARL􀈱Electronic􀈱Support􀈱System􀈱and􀈱the􀈱Underwater􀈱
Warfare􀈱 System􀈱 has􀈱 been􀈱 disappointing.􀈱 Performance􀈱 of􀈱 the􀈱 Electronic􀈱 Support􀈱System􀈱during􀈱sea􀈱trials􀈱has􀈱not􀈱provided􀈱Navy􀈱with􀈱the􀈱confidence􀈱
that􀈱the􀈱system􀈱will􀈱meet􀈱operational􀈱requirements􀈱in􀈱the􀈱short/medium􀈱term.􀈱
Electronic􀈱Support􀈱System􀈱deficiencies􀈱are􀈱the􀈱most􀈱significant􀈱barrier􀈱to􀈱Navy􀈱
using􀈱 HMAS􀈱 Sydney􀈱 in􀈱 an􀈱 operational􀈱 environment.􀈱 While􀈱 Underwater􀈱 Warfare􀈱 System􀈱 trial􀈱 results􀈱 have􀈱 been􀈱 disappointing􀈱 there􀈱 are􀈱 some􀈱
encouraging􀈱 aspects.,mmm
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Eh lionnoisy don't forget.
You also haven't answered to the M777 thread about the M777 not being heliportable when it was simply not true.
LOL.
Ya.
u are damn right.i hereby admit that Sg Ty is the very expert in military field
.what s/he says is as accurate important and repectful as Jane's!!
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Ya.
u are damn right.i hereby admit that Sg Ty is the very expert in military field
.what s/he says is as accurate important and repectful as Jane's!!
a few simple home truths here lionnoisy.
1) no weapons procurement system or process is without flaws
2) no weapon system is without flaws
3) STK weapons are not best in the world /universe/galaxy. PERIOD.
4) different expectations/ needs = different procurement requirements and methods
5) we cant evaluate whether procurement is ideal or not, but we can critically examine the cause and effect of procurement. which is something you havent been doing.
to critically examine means to try to fit everything within the context (i.e Australia's shoes) you have simply been bashing them without making an effort to UNDERSTAND them.
cheers !
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hey guys,the best and quickest way to kill this Military Nuts
forum is by posting irrelevant, long and and funny posts.
If u want show me the bad sides of SG,pl open other thread.
Pl dunt taint any other threats.
This thread is for us to pwn you in what
so it's supposed to be irrelevant, long, and funny
hmmm actually we must thank you, you're making military nuts really fun by giving us this chance to pwn you badly, as well as exposing all the problems of the SAF so we are all smarter at the end of the day...
but we still dunno much about the problems of the ADF, because we all cannot understand your posts.
even lately, it seems that your copy and paste skills have become worse, take this for example:
Performance􀈱of􀈱the􀈱C􀈬PEARL􀈱Electronic􀈱Support􀈱System􀈱and􀈱the􀈱Underwater􀈱
Warfare􀈱 System􀈱 has􀈱 been􀈱 disappointing.􀈱 Performance􀈱 of􀈱 the􀈱 Electronic􀈱 Support􀈱System􀈱during􀈱sea􀈱trials􀈱has􀈱not􀈱provided􀈱Navy􀈱with􀈱the􀈱confidence􀈱
that􀈱the􀈱system􀈱will􀈱meet􀈱operational􀈱requirements􀈱in􀈱the􀈱short/medium􀈱term.􀈱
Electronic􀈱Support􀈱System􀈱deficiencies􀈱are􀈱the􀈱most􀈱significant􀈱barrier􀈱to􀈱Navy􀈱
using􀈱 HMAS􀈱 Sydney􀈱 in􀈱 an􀈱 operational􀈱 environment.􀈱 While􀈱 Underwater􀈱 Warfare􀈱 System􀈱 trial􀈱 results􀈱 have􀈱 been􀈱 disappointing􀈱 there􀈱 are􀈱 some􀈱
encouraging􀈱 aspects.is this readable?
in fact we only managed to read first few and the last few words:
"Performance of the C PEAL Electronic Support System ... are ....encouraging aspects"
WOW! You posted a positive article on the ADF!
BTW you still haven't answered,
what is a "quene"?
is it
or
-
wow.RAN wil be closed for 2 months for Christmas!!
Join the Navy lah...
This is be the best time to test RAN reactions!!
This is the first time i know a military force closed so long and involving
for so many sailors.
Anyway,
Only up to 10 naval cambtant platform,plus 9.4 Armidale class Patrol Boat(Coast guard role) defending Oz a day in 2006/07.
so,the stand down make no much difference!!
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/314188
http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/workingpapers/Working%20Paper%2011.pdf
No improvement in the past 8 years!!
Hard to believe ,right?But see to believe!!
(Adelaide Class)..... ANZAC...Collins...Patrol
Guided missile FFG... FFG.....SSK......Boat
Annual Report 2006/07
Platforms in services--------------4......8..........6.......11
Substantially achieved(days)---874......1669....583...2427
Platforms avaiable per day(max):2.9.......5.1..........2.2.....9.4
Total:10+9.4 Armidale class Patrol Boat(Coastal guard role)!!
Aussie navy closes for Christmas
The stand-down period will run from December 3 to February 3, and will be a permanent arrangement every year.
This Christmas 500 navy personnel will remain deployed overseas and in waters north of Australia. If an emergency occurs, other personnel will be ordered back to work.
But thousands of sailors who might previously have been deployed on ships over December and January on exercises or training activities will not be this year, and will be able to take longer than usual holidays.
The extraordinary measures are a part of an initiative called "New Generation Navy" aimed at attracting and retaining more staff by changing the culture of the navy and improving the work-life balance of personnel.
The navy loses 11 per cent of its workforce every year and last financial year only achieved 73 per cent of its full-time recruitment targets.
MERRY CHRISTMAS,MATES!!
mmmmm
-
As soon as I read this article I knew you would post it up.
Oh shit, Australia is in massive danger now.
Why don't you lionnoisy tell every other country so that they can come and invade us?
-
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
wow.RAN wil be closed for 2 months for Christmas!!
Join the Navy lah...
This is be the best time to test RAN reactions!!
This is the first time i know a military force closed so long and involving
for so many sailors.
Anyway,
Only up to 10 naval cambtant platform,plus 9.4 Armidale class Patrol Boat(Coast guard role) defending Oz a day in 2006/07.
so,the stand down make no much difference!!
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/314188
http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/workingpapers/Working%20Paper%2011.pdf
No improvement in the past 8 years!!
Hard to believe ,right?But see to believe!!
(Adelaide Class)..... ANZAC...Collins...Patrol
Guided missile FFG... FFG.....SSK......Boat
Annual Report 2006/07
Platforms in services--------------4......8..........6.......11
Substantially achieved(days)---874......1669....583...2427
Platforms avaiable per day(max):2.9.......5.1..........2.2.....9.4
Total:10+9.4 Armidale class Patrol Boat(Coastal guard role)!!
Aussie navy closes for Christmas
MERRY CHRISTMAS,MATES!!
mmmmm
BTW you still haven't answered,
what is a "quene"?
is it
or
-
Hey dumb lion, how come you haven't posted this article up yet? It came out today in the Australian media.
Australia's naval frigates 'worth the wait'
Article from:
November 19, 2008 12:00am
IN one of the biggest comebacks in defence project history, two of the navy's key frontline warships have been fully upgraded and one will be on duty in the Middle East by the middle of next year.
The upgrade of four guided missile frigates might be four years late but, experts say, the navy now has the most lethal frigate fleet on earth.
That has caught the attention of several overseas navies, including the US, Canada, Greece and Turkey, which could send their FFGs to the Sydney shipyard of French giant Thales for a similar overhaul.
In January this year The Daily Telegraph revealed the parlous state of the $1.4 billion project and major problems with electronic combat and self-protection systems.
Just 10 months - and several key staff changes - later the huge high-tech challenges have been overcome and yesterday HMAS Sydney and HMAS Darwin were handed back to the navy for final trials.
Parliamentary Secretary for Defence and driving force behind the reversal Greg Combet said he was "very pleased" with the outcome.
"These FFGs will be advanced warships and hopefully we will get one to the Gulf next year to relieve the Anzac frigates," Mr Combet said.
The ships have been virtually re-built and fitted with highly capable missile and combat systems and new radars and sonars. Some involve more than a million lines of software code.
Chief executive of Thales Australia Chris Jenkins said the upgrade was the most complex in naval history.
"These are the most capable ships in the history of the RAN," he said.
The upgrade was a testimony to the skills available in Australia, he said.
"Building new ships is so much easier than upgrading operational assets. It is very challenging," he said.
Commodore Drew McKinnie of the Defence Materiel Organisation said the handover was "momentous".
-
And note how I posted up the WHOLE article, not little bits here and there. That's because I got nothing to hide, unlike you dumbass.
-
Originally posted by Asian Aussie:
Hey dumb lion, how come you haven't posted this article up yet? It came out today in the Australian media.
Australia's naval frigates 'worth the wait'
Article from:
<!-- // .article-tools -->
By Ian McPhedran
November 19, 2008 12:00am
<!-- Split page -->
<!-- Lead Content Panel -->IN one of the biggest comebacks in defence project history, two of the navy's key frontline warships have been fully upgraded and one will be on duty in the Middle East by the middle of next year.
The upgrade of four guided missile frigates might be four years late but, experts say, the navy now has the most lethal frigate fleet on earth.
That has caught the attention of several overseas navies, including the US, Canada, Greece and Turkey, which could send their FFGs to the Sydney shipyard of French giant Thales for a similar overhaul.
In January this year The Daily Telegraph revealed the parlous state of the $1.4 billion project and major problems with electronic combat and self-protection systems.
Just 10 months - and several key staff changes - later the huge high-tech challenges have been overcome and yesterday HMAS Sydney and HMAS Darwin were handed back to the navy for final trials.
Parliamentary Secretary for Defence and driving force behind the reversal Greg Combet said he was "very pleased" with the outcome.
"These FFGs will be advanced warships and hopefully we will get one to the Gulf next year to relieve the Anzac frigates," Mr Combet said.
The ships have been virtually re-built and fitted with highly capable missile and combat systems and new radars and sonars. Some involve more than a million lines of software code.
Chief executive of Thales Australia Chris Jenkins said the upgrade was the most complex in naval history.
"These are the most capable ships in the history of the RAN," he said.
The upgrade was a testimony to the skills available in Australia, he said.
"Building new ships is so much easier than upgrading operational assets. It is very challenging," he said.
Commodore Drew McKinnie of the Defence Materiel Organisation said the handover was "momentous".
Hi.I really need u to do me a favour.
can u share with the joys here in the future if FFG to be declared
Initial operational capability(IOC) and Full operational capability(FOC)
for the upgrading!!
2.I also share with u a 104 pages report about the FFG upgrade
Management of the FFG Capability Upgrade---104 pages report!!
-http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/2007-08_Audit_Report_11.pdf
can u share how u feel after reading summary of the report?
3.FFG contractors is really can do a quick turn around
Jane's just reported the big problems in June.
Pl read how Jane's quoted a boss of DMO said in Oz Parliment--
We found antennas with a physical leak in them; the antennas have been replaced
by the company.We found hardware deficiencies.
We found some mounting deficiencies.
We found some software deficiencies. I might add that through this detailed analysis
we also found, surprisingly perhaps, some deficiencies on fitted equipment that has been there for quite some time which generated spike. It was a very thorough trials process.
Oz FFG problems of new ESM,C-Pearl,"near resolution"
JDW 18.06.2008 Tim Fish reported,
under headline
Australia near resolution of C-Pearl problems
Electronic Support Measure
This is to replace AN/SLQ-32 ESM.
In a Parlimental Committee hearing
on 4 June 2008,
Warren King of oz DMO said,among other things:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S10871.pdf
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Official Committee HansardSENATE
STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE
AND TRADEESTIMATES
(Budget Estimates)
WEDNESDAY, 4 JUNE 2008
CANBERRA@@@@@@@@@@
so let us wait and see how
"These are the most capable ships in the history of the RAN"
will perform!!
mmmm
-
your news no longer matters lionnoisy,
this is what matters:
IN one of the biggest comebacks in defence project history, two of the navy's key frontline warships have been fully upgraded and one will be on duty in the Middle East by the middle of next year.
The upgrade of four guided missile frigates might be four years late but, experts say, the navy now has the most lethal frigate fleet on earth.
That has caught the attention of several overseas navies, including the US, Canada, Greece and Turkey, which could send their FFGs to the Sydney shipyard of French giant Thales for a similar overhaul.
In January this year The Daily Telegraph revealed the parlous state of the $1.4 billion project and major problems with electronic combat and self-protection systems.
Just 10 months - and several key staff changes - later the huge high-tech challenges have been overcome and yesterday HMAS Sydney and HMAS Darwin were handed back to the navy for final trials.
Parliamentary Secretary for Defence and driving force behind the reversal Greg Combet said he was "very pleased" with the outcome.
"These FFGs will be advanced warships and hopefully we will get one to the Gulf next year to relieve the Anzac frigates," Mr Combet said.
The ships have been virtually re-built and fitted with highly capable missile and combat systems and new radars and sonars. Some involve more than a million lines of software code.
Chief executive of Thales Australia Chris Jenkins said the upgrade was the most complex in naval history.
"These are the most capable ships in the history of the RAN," he said.
The upgrade was a testimony to the skills available in Australia, he said.
"Building new ships is so much easier than upgrading operational assets. It is very challenging," he said.
Commodore Drew McKinnie of the Defence Materiel Organisation said the handover was "momentous".
-
Dumb lion, have you read the date of my article vs your articles? My article was published on the 19th November 2008.
The "sources" you refer to are months to years old. I know you're mentally retarded, but please try to catch up with the present.
Next year, one of the ships is being deployed ACTIVELY. So stuff your operational capabilities BS talk. These ships will be used for what they're supposed to do .
Did the FFG upgrade have problems? Yes. But now look at what we have got. I'm astonished you didn't even bother to read the article.